So the US just killed a few tens of thousands of Iraqis, and about 1500 of its own soldiers all for oil. Now shouldn't gas and oil be cheaper than ever?
Why Oil and Gas so expensive?
- Thread starter budgetrider
- Start date
Would have been had it not been for them meddling kids!!!
oops i meant insurgents....
oops i meant insurgents....
Well since the US didn't go after any of Iraq's oil in the first place I don't know.
Riiiiiight......Brian HCM#1 said:
May I refer you to:Brian HCM#1 said:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114585
Care to reconsider that stance?
because the big oil companies can. our government IS big oil, ergo, they can price fix, monopolize, and otherwise assrape the sherman anti trust act any way they want to ensure the highest of profits.
For those who really wanna know the answer...
Today's high gas prices have many roots
Knight Ridder Newspapers | 4 Apr | KEVIN G. HALL
WASHINGTON - (KRT) - You're at the gas pump, fuming about $2.25 or more for a gallon of regular unleaded. Who's getting rich off you, how'd prices get so high, who's to blame?
Not your local convenience store, where three-quarters of Americans buy their gas. Shop owners make a penny or two per gallon. Their bonanza is inside the store, not at the pumps. They're feeling your pain because Americans are spending on gas what they used to spend on Snickers bars or Slurpees.
The most obvious villains are the giant oil companies and rich oil countries such as Saudi Arabia. But they're just two pieces of a complicated answer to why the price at the pump is so high.
Other villains include, in no particular order: you, environmentalists, the weak dollar, government regulators, Wall Street investors, China and other developing nations. All played a role in creating today's high gas prices.
For starters, many major metropolitan areas have passed laws requiring special summer blends of fuel that are less likely to evaporate in hot months and cause smog. These special blends generally are introduced about now, in early spring, and trigger price increases of roughly 30 cents a gallon during the warmer months in many parts of the country.
"This is the average we have seen every year since 2000, and it is exactly what we have seen so far this year," said Jeff Lenard, a spokesman for the National Association of Convenience Stores in Alexandria, Va.
The biggest reason pump prices have risen is the surging global price of crude oil, which is refined into gasoline. Crude oil prices are set on international markets, where price generally is determined by old-fashioned supply and demand. When a product is in short supply, people are willing to pay more for it.
Oil isn't a finished product but a commodity. That adds a wrinkle to the supply-and-demand explanation. It's traded in contracts for future delivery, and these contracts are bought and sold like stocks.
Also like stocks, the perception of risk can be as much a factor as the underlying supply-demand fundamentals in determining the value of oil. Some buyers of oil contracts are users of oil or gas who seek to lock in prices now out of concern that they might rise later. Others are investors who trade in oil as speculators, trying to guess a trend they can get rich from.
Oil prices are being driven up by investors who think the price will go higher in the future. In many cases, they might be acting for you.
"The oil market, believe it or not, is being fueled by your pension fund," said Philip K. Verleger, a noted oil economist in Aspen, Colo. "For more than a decade, investment bankers have been advising pension funds to put 10 percent or 11 percent of their assets into commodities."
The New York Mercantile Exchange last month reported an all-time high in trading for crude oil-futures contracts. Regulators said noncommercial traders, pension funds and the more speculative hedge funds accounted for 34 percent of the contracts last month.
Then there's you, the consumer. Gas-guzzling SUVs help make the United States the world's largest consumer of oil, at 21 million barrels a day. Americans will consume 1.7 percent more gasoline this year than last despite the higher prices, the Energy Information Administration estimated Thursday. It's the analytical arm of the Energy Department.
India and China also are stretching supplies, as fast-developing nations. China is on course to equal today's U.S. consumption of oil by 2020. While the United States imports oil mainly to power vehicles, China imports it to power industry. China's industrial growth, in great measure, is tied to the strong U.S. economy that buys its exports. American consumers pay China's oil bills.
"We're the ones buying the goods from China. It is driving their increased demand for energy," said John Giglio, an oil expert and the executive director of the National Association of State Energy Officials in Alexandria, Va.
Meanwhile, the supply of oil, industry analysts said, is growing at only 2 percent a year. Refineries are running at 90 percent capacity or more. There's no margin for error.
"There is no cushion in the market to absorb any unexpected changes in supply and demand," said Guy Caruso, the head of the Energy Information Administration. Saudi Arabia reportedly pledged this week to pump oil up to the limits of its matchless production capacity in an effort to calm market nerves, but so far markets haven't much reacted.
A single event - such as a strategically placed bomb in Iraq or Saudi Arabia, or sabotage at a U.S. refinery - could spark global shortages.
"We're used to an oil market that if Iraq goes down or Nigeria goes down, Saudi Arabia and other producers can cover it. We don't have that anymore," said Rick Mueller, an analyst at Energy Security Analysis Inc. in Wakefield, Mass.
The potential for scarcity drives up the price of oil.
The weak U.S. dollar is another reason that gasoline costs more. Oil is traded in dollars, and the dollar has lost 15 to 20 percent against most major currencies. Oil companies and producing nations have raised prices to compensate for the dollar's slump.
Your loss at the pumps is the gain of oil-rich nations and global oil giants.
Big oil companies posted record profits last year and should grow even flusher this year. Oil companies will occupy three of the top 10 spots when Fortune magazine releases its ranking of the top 500 publicly traded companies Monday.
Exxon Mobil Corp. ranks second, behind only Wal-Mart. Exxon posted sales nearing $221 billion in 2004, a figure roughly equivalent to the economy of Greece. Fortune ranked it the most profitable company on its list, with $21.5 billion in profits, a staggering figure larger than the economies of Madagascar and Iceland combined.
ChevronTexaco Corp. and ConocoPhillips ranked 7th and 8th, respectively. ChevronTexaco saw its net income - or profit - jump to $13.3 billion in 2004, almost twice its 2003 take.
Oil-producing countries also get rich, by requiring the oil companies to cut them in on the deal. Norway, the world's third largest oil exporter, is thought to have the world's highest standard of living, thanks to oil income. Booming oil prices brought Norway a 19 percent increase in oil exports last year, to $38 billion.
Today's high gas prices have many roots
Knight Ridder Newspapers | 4 Apr | KEVIN G. HALL
WASHINGTON - (KRT) - You're at the gas pump, fuming about $2.25 or more for a gallon of regular unleaded. Who's getting rich off you, how'd prices get so high, who's to blame?
Not your local convenience store, where three-quarters of Americans buy their gas. Shop owners make a penny or two per gallon. Their bonanza is inside the store, not at the pumps. They're feeling your pain because Americans are spending on gas what they used to spend on Snickers bars or Slurpees.
The most obvious villains are the giant oil companies and rich oil countries such as Saudi Arabia. But they're just two pieces of a complicated answer to why the price at the pump is so high.
Other villains include, in no particular order: you, environmentalists, the weak dollar, government regulators, Wall Street investors, China and other developing nations. All played a role in creating today's high gas prices.
For starters, many major metropolitan areas have passed laws requiring special summer blends of fuel that are less likely to evaporate in hot months and cause smog. These special blends generally are introduced about now, in early spring, and trigger price increases of roughly 30 cents a gallon during the warmer months in many parts of the country.
"This is the average we have seen every year since 2000, and it is exactly what we have seen so far this year," said Jeff Lenard, a spokesman for the National Association of Convenience Stores in Alexandria, Va.
The biggest reason pump prices have risen is the surging global price of crude oil, which is refined into gasoline. Crude oil prices are set on international markets, where price generally is determined by old-fashioned supply and demand. When a product is in short supply, people are willing to pay more for it.
Oil isn't a finished product but a commodity. That adds a wrinkle to the supply-and-demand explanation. It's traded in contracts for future delivery, and these contracts are bought and sold like stocks.
Also like stocks, the perception of risk can be as much a factor as the underlying supply-demand fundamentals in determining the value of oil. Some buyers of oil contracts are users of oil or gas who seek to lock in prices now out of concern that they might rise later. Others are investors who trade in oil as speculators, trying to guess a trend they can get rich from.
Oil prices are being driven up by investors who think the price will go higher in the future. In many cases, they might be acting for you.
"The oil market, believe it or not, is being fueled by your pension fund," said Philip K. Verleger, a noted oil economist in Aspen, Colo. "For more than a decade, investment bankers have been advising pension funds to put 10 percent or 11 percent of their assets into commodities."
The New York Mercantile Exchange last month reported an all-time high in trading for crude oil-futures contracts. Regulators said noncommercial traders, pension funds and the more speculative hedge funds accounted for 34 percent of the contracts last month.
Then there's you, the consumer. Gas-guzzling SUVs help make the United States the world's largest consumer of oil, at 21 million barrels a day. Americans will consume 1.7 percent more gasoline this year than last despite the higher prices, the Energy Information Administration estimated Thursday. It's the analytical arm of the Energy Department.
India and China also are stretching supplies, as fast-developing nations. China is on course to equal today's U.S. consumption of oil by 2020. While the United States imports oil mainly to power vehicles, China imports it to power industry. China's industrial growth, in great measure, is tied to the strong U.S. economy that buys its exports. American consumers pay China's oil bills.
"We're the ones buying the goods from China. It is driving their increased demand for energy," said John Giglio, an oil expert and the executive director of the National Association of State Energy Officials in Alexandria, Va.
Meanwhile, the supply of oil, industry analysts said, is growing at only 2 percent a year. Refineries are running at 90 percent capacity or more. There's no margin for error.
"There is no cushion in the market to absorb any unexpected changes in supply and demand," said Guy Caruso, the head of the Energy Information Administration. Saudi Arabia reportedly pledged this week to pump oil up to the limits of its matchless production capacity in an effort to calm market nerves, but so far markets haven't much reacted.
A single event - such as a strategically placed bomb in Iraq or Saudi Arabia, or sabotage at a U.S. refinery - could spark global shortages.
"We're used to an oil market that if Iraq goes down or Nigeria goes down, Saudi Arabia and other producers can cover it. We don't have that anymore," said Rick Mueller, an analyst at Energy Security Analysis Inc. in Wakefield, Mass.
The potential for scarcity drives up the price of oil.
The weak U.S. dollar is another reason that gasoline costs more. Oil is traded in dollars, and the dollar has lost 15 to 20 percent against most major currencies. Oil companies and producing nations have raised prices to compensate for the dollar's slump.
Your loss at the pumps is the gain of oil-rich nations and global oil giants.
Big oil companies posted record profits last year and should grow even flusher this year. Oil companies will occupy three of the top 10 spots when Fortune magazine releases its ranking of the top 500 publicly traded companies Monday.
Exxon Mobil Corp. ranks second, behind only Wal-Mart. Exxon posted sales nearing $221 billion in 2004, a figure roughly equivalent to the economy of Greece. Fortune ranked it the most profitable company on its list, with $21.5 billion in profits, a staggering figure larger than the economies of Madagascar and Iceland combined.
ChevronTexaco Corp. and ConocoPhillips ranked 7th and 8th, respectively. ChevronTexaco saw its net income - or profit - jump to $13.3 billion in 2004, almost twice its 2003 take.
Oil-producing countries also get rich, by requiring the oil companies to cut them in on the deal. Norway, the world's third largest oil exporter, is thought to have the world's highest standard of living, thanks to oil income. Booming oil prices brought Norway a 19 percent increase in oil exports last year, to $38 billion.
you guys do know that our oil prices arent exactly high, europe has been paying like $5 a gallon while we where still paying $1.50, and when you figure in inflation, we still arent paying as high as we where in the 70's...Shouldnt we off all people be riding bikes, and not be bitching about oil prices??
Europe has indeed been paying that sort of money for a long time. We've always paid alot more than the US. Most of it is tax in our case. In fact most of the world pays more for gas than you guys for one reason or another. That's kind of beside the point.EATYOURFACE said:
George Bush is an oil man when it comes down to it and so are many of his backers, and whilst his actions have been pretty shady, this is important beyond the 4 more years he has in power.
The Earth is running out of oil in the form we currently consume it. Whilst it's price has been coerced and massaged higher by greedy folk in high places recently, the fact remains those who drill for a living, those who take interest in it, and increasingly the general public can see the day when it is no longer going to be viable to sniff around the remains of a few 90% dry holes in wildlife reserves in order to fulfill our current lifestyle demands. Oil companies have abused these perceptions recently in order to secure higher profits but whats more important is that we do genuinly need a viable replacement.
So whilst getting out on your bike more is a great way to burn less oil, you should be complaining that the government is not doing enough to prepare us for the day the wells run dry.
EATYOURFACE said:
the difference is, gas in europe is stupid expensive because it is incredibly heavily taxed, and the government uses those taxes to provide huge mass transportation systems and many social support projects for the poor. its expensive now in america because oil companies want to make record profits.
Yep, and higher gas prices discourage driving. Hence, Europe is not centered around the personal automobile, as the US is.Handlebarsfsr said:
The US has taken what can be a very useful and important tool (The automobile) and exploited it, systematically raping our own environment and culture.
that will make me feel betterEATYOURFACE said:
I've got a simpler idea. Though I think N8's essay has merit, I think that Saddam Hussein kept oil prices low by handing out credits to sell iraqi oil to everyone except the US oil companies. So all the Europeans Russians, hell I even think the Vatican got to sell their quotas of iraqi oil through the UN's oil for food.
Everyone was making a killing giving a dollar's worth of food to iraq for a hundred dollars worth of oil, every1 that is except for the Americans.
Saddam made a point of giving no oil credits to American companies because the US was the one that put the sanctions on iraq in the first place.
Everyone was making a killing giving a dollar's worth of food to iraq for a hundred dollars worth of oil, every1 that is except for the Americans.
Saddam made a point of giving no oil credits to American companies because the US was the one that put the sanctions on iraq in the first place.
So after invading iraq, the US and Britain reallocated Iraq's oil output through a handful of "Coalition" business interests. Now instead of the hundreds europeans, russians, Catholic church etc all selling oil, you've got a handful of American and Brit corporations selling iraqi oil. Less competition = higher prices.
do you really think those Iraqi oil cartels want gas prices to be high? hell no. If prices are high people seek substitutes. Supply and demand. With high gas prices the push for more hybrid vehicles, and alternate means of fuel is pushed to the forefront. America is driving pirices up...b/c the public is willing to pay for it. :dancing:
try living in the rest of the world... then see if you think it is expensive in the US...
i laugh everytime someone bitches about the price of gas...
i laugh everytime someone bitches about the price of gas...
Try living in Holland, 1.30$ per liter.
Kevin said:
yeah, europe is insane... we make alot of german friends when we tell them that gas costs us 0.50 euro cents per litre... for premium grade...
Kevin said:
What's a "liter?"
Dunno, but I'm surprised that the Dutch charge for it in US Dollars. I thought they'd embraced the Euro rather more happily than that.N8 said:
Just not everyone feels broke...
my dad is making good off this, he owns several wells, and builds downhole oil tools.
my dad is making good off this, he owns several wells, and builds downhole oil tools.
If we had the public transportation systems that Europe has maybe it wouldn't be as much of an issue. Not to mention if I had the 35 hour work week some European countries had I would be happy to spend some of that time finding a public transportation alternative to work....but when the stupid american philosophy is "work till you drop" I don't have an extra 1/2 hour or more a day to waste when I'm lucky if I only have a 40 hour work week.EATYOURFACE said:
(Can you tell I'm bitter that you have to worry about your job being in jepordy if you don't want to work 50+ hours each week 
)
Ah, you need some decent unions... :devil:Velocity Girl said:....but when the stupid american philosophy is "work till you drop" I don't have an extra 1/2 hour or more a day to waste when I'm lucky if I only have a 40 hour work week.
How much gas do you need to drive from one side of Holland to the other?Kevin said:
It's looks like about 80-100 miles on Mapquest. I would imagine that your average Dutchman uses a lot less gasoline than an average American.
Well we have some, but they don't generally extend into the professional areas....so therefore the man can work us to the bone until we're spent and then replace us when it's convienient for themfluff said:
A lot of us already know this. The thing is, it's not the gasoline itself that is so expensive in Europe, it is the taxes per liter or gallon or whatever, on top of the actual fuel cost. So the question is, what do those high taxes on fuel pay for?partsbara said:
I heard an interesting new story last night, and yeah it was on Fox, but I think it could have been anywhere. According to the story, there hasn't been a new gasoline refinery built in the US in 27 years. Think we are using more fuel now than 27 years ago?
I think Velocity girls' comments are on the mark. I live 8 miles and 20 minutes by private vehicle from my job. It's not a safe biking route and my work hours and local weather also make riding it regularly impractical. So I drive. The public transit option would require that I travel about two miles from my house, then ride two different buses. It would add more than an hour and a half to my day, every day.
I havent got a clue how much a liter is, I just figured someone on the boards would know and explain it for me...
From one side to the other side of Holland is a 3 hours drive but I really dont see what this has to do with anything. I think we drive as much as U do, just shorter distances at a time.
When I wanna ride some decent DH, gas alone will set me back a hundred bucks and some tracks cost me allmost $200,00 to just get there. (for all you smartasses the dollar and euro are about the same thats why Im writing it down in USD).
I try to ride DH 2 or 3 times a month during race season so u can imagine the costs.
The goverment is totally ripping us off here, not just on gas prices but in every way they can.
Parts, Ill be stoppin by later with a 500 liter watertank
neaky: (and no, I dont know how much that is in gallon's, zork's or whatever)
From one side to the other side of Holland is a 3 hours drive but I really dont see what this has to do with anything. I think we drive as much as U do, just shorter distances at a time.
When I wanna ride some decent DH, gas alone will set me back a hundred bucks and some tracks cost me allmost $200,00 to just get there. (for all you smartasses the dollar and euro are about the same thats why Im writing it down in USD).
I try to ride DH 2 or 3 times a month during race season so u can imagine the costs.
The goverment is totally ripping us off here, not just on gas prices but in every way they can.
Parts, Ill be stoppin by later with a 500 liter watertank
neaky: (and no, I dont know how much that is in gallon's, zork's or whatever)
Every red blooded American man that pees standing up should know how much a liter is......Kevin said:I havent got a clue how much a liter is, I just figured someone on the boards would know and explain it for me...
From one side to the other side of Holland is a 3 hours drive but I really dont see what this has to do with anything. I think we drive as much as U do, just shorter distances at a time.
When I wanna ride some decent DH, gas alone will set me back a hundred bucks and some tracks cost me allmost $200,00 to just get there. (for all you smartasses the dollar and euro are about the same thats why Im writing it down in USD).
I try to ride DH 2 or 3 times a month during race season so u can imagine the costs.
The goverment is totally ripping us off here, not just on gas prices but in every way they can.
Parts, Ill be stoppin by later with a 500 liter watertank
Most urinals have 3.8 liters/1gallon per flush printed on the top of them.
This only happens if you let them..........Velocity Girl said:Well we have some, but they don't generally extend into the professional areas....so therefore the man can work us to the bone until we're spent and then replace us when it's convienient for them
-S.S.-
the problem isnt our transportation, the problem is that we are to sprawled outVelocity Girl said:
But if it comes down to keeping your job so you can pay the bills, sometimes you don't have much of a choice....and it's just insult to injury when you don't even get paid for the OT eitherSkaredShtles said:This only happens if you let them..........
-S.S.-
Agreed that we are too sprawled out, but sometimes that's the only way to find affordable housing is to keep looking further and further from the major cities, and the further out you get, the worse the transportation gets....so you're caught between a rock and a hard place then.EATYOURFACE said:
Wow I thought I was the only one "expected" to work OT for free. We were essentially told that if we have to come in on the weekend it's a "gift" to the company, no comp time no nothing.Velocity Girl said:But if it comes down to keeping your job so you can pay the bills, sometimes you don't have much of a choice....and it's just insult to injury when you don't even get paid for the OT either
Actaully, it was during the early 1900'2, let's say 1910. That the big american automobile makers actually bribed the political machines in place in major cities to, get this, shut down or remove public transportation projects.
Back then, gasoline was a waste product, and it was cheap. By selling cars (creating a demand for gas) they ensnared the entire american transportation economy. Ever wonder why our train systems are so bad??
Anyway, the reason we are losing the battle with OPEC right now has little to do with their asking price, it's simply that our deficit is growing, so our money is worth abput %40 less.
Back then, gasoline was a waste product, and it was cheap. By selling cars (creating a demand for gas) they ensnared the entire american transportation economy. Ever wonder why our train systems are so bad??
Anyway, the reason we are losing the battle with OPEC right now has little to do with their asking price, it's simply that our deficit is growing, so our money is worth abput %40 less.
You let that happen one time, and you're ****ed. One bloody time as a favor, or because you need to make a deadline, and before you know it, if you're not in on Sunday, don't bother coming in on Monday.Andyman_1970 said: