[Archslater]

Actaully, it was during the early 1900'2, let's say 1910. That the big american automobile makers actually bribed the political machines in place in major cities to, get this, shut down or remove public transportation projects.

I watched a documentary about this back in college.

Here is a quote from Wikipedia: "During the 1920s and 1930s General Motors bought out the bus company Yellow Coach, helped create Greyhound bus lines, replaced intercity train transport with buses, and established subsidiary companies to buy out streetcar companies and replace the rail-based services with buses. GM formed United Cities Motor Transit, in 1932. See General Motors streetcar conspiracy for additional details."

...once the rail based transportation was replaced with buses, the mechanism for modern day sprawl was in place.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Wow I thought I was the only one "expected" to work OT for free. We were essentially told that if we have to come in on the weekend it's a "gift" to the company, no comp time no nothing.

Man. What kind of crap companies do you people work for??

-S.S.-

 

[Andyman_1970]

You let that happen one time, and you're ****ed. One bloody time as a favor, or because you need to make a deadline, and before you know it, if you're not in on Sunday, don't bother coming in on Monday.

Which is why I never "gave" them free time. It essentially came down to they are going to have to threaten me with my job for me to come in, which they wouldn't do.

Once we had our baby, there is no way on God's green earth I'm going to work on the weekend. I can always find another job, but time with my son I can never get back.

 

[Velocity Girl]

Wow I thought I was the only one "expected" to work OT for free. We were essentially told that if we have to come in on the weekend it's a "gift" to the company, no comp time no nothing.

F'ing sucks doesn't it? Thankfully I've been relatively lucky with my past couple bosses that if I have something planned for the weekend you can get out of some of it. I've started turning in my race schedules in Feb for the summer just so they know what weekends I will not be available to work....crazy that one would actually have to worry about that. I've also been comped days here and there from past bosses, which is appreciated, but it still doesn't make up for the time that I miss with the husband and friends

 

[Andyman_1970]

Man. What kind of crap companies do you people work for??

-S.S.-

Well for me, in the aircraft industry after 9/11 management's attitude was "you're lucky to have a job" so we were essentially bullied into this kind of stuff.

Thankfully the aircraft industry is turning around, and lately they have started offering more benifits such as comp/flex time and 9/80 work weeks.

 

[Velocity Girl]

Man. What kind of crap companies do you people work for??

-S.S.-

I've seen it in almost every job I've had and I've even changed industries. I used to work in the recreational boat industry...definitely happens there and I still see it happening to my friends. I now work as a software test engineer and I've seen it at all places from the small startup, to the big guys like Microsoft, and now in the telecom industry. It's just the "norm" that if you're a salaried exempt employee you'll do whatever it takes to get the job done and give us your life and we won't pay you overtime.

 

[$tinkle]

Well for me, in the aircraft industry after 9/11 management's attitude was "you're lucky to have a job" so we were essentially bullied into this kind of stuff.

i thought it was mandated after the wrongful death of sen. wellstone (thanks to you guys).

 

[Andyman_1970]

i thought it was mandated after the wrongful death of sen. wellstone (thanks to you guys).

Was that the crash in Minnesota? Refresh my memory on that one.

 

[$tinkle]

http://www.karljones.com/who/w/wellstone/wellstone_death.asp

"The Beechcraft King Air that crashed was manufactured by Raytheon. Raytheon just happens to be a major defense contractor and supplier of a multitude of missile systems including the AAMRAM, Patriot and Tomahawk. They are also at the forefront of developing Bush’s Star Wars missile defense “shield” as well as a leading developer of other Homeland Security projects. They have a long and cozy relationship with the Bush cartel.

 

[Andyman_1970]

http://www.karljones.com/who/w/wellstone/wellstone_death.asp

CFIT - controlled flight into terrain due to weather. That was pilot error/poor decision making from the reports I've read.

Oh and having a King Air crash is not good business, I assure you as someone who works for that company. Also, just because the airplane was manufactured by a Raytheon company doesn't mean we can secretly control it from the ground to "take out" people we don't like............LOL Those folks need to buy a clue.

 

[$tinkle]

CFIT - controlled flight into terrain due to weather. That was pilot error/poor decision making from the reports I've read.

Oh and having a King Air crash is not good business, I assure you as someone who works for that company. Also, just because the airplane was manufactured by a Raytheon company doesn't mean we can secretly control it from the ground to "take out" people we don't like............LOL Those folks need to buy a clue.

just as i expected: the usual karl rove talking points.

i'll be watching you from the grassy knoll.

 

[Andyman_1970]

just as i expected: the usual karl rove talking points.

i'll be watching you from the grassy knoll.

Since Karl Rove doesn't work in the aircraft industry as a technical professional and he hasn't studied on a graduate level aircraft accident investigation I wouldn't believe him either................

 

[SkaredShtles]

I've seen it in almost every job I've had and I've even changed industries. I used to work in the recreational boat industry...definitely happens there and I still see it happening to my friends. I now work as a software test engineer and I've seen it at all places from the small startup, to the big guys like Microsoft, and now in the telecom industry. It's just the "norm" that if you're a salaried exempt employee you'll do whatever it takes to get the job done and give us your life and we won't pay you overtime.

Wow. I'm in that industry (Unix sys admin) and my wife was a Q/A-test engineer. I've never had that issue (and I've changed jobs about 5 times in the last 12 years). Of course, if somebody pulled that crap, I'd have no qualms about quitting and finding another job.

And I *always* make sure that if I work more than 8 hours past a 40-42 hour week that I take a comp day somewhere and ride.

-S.S.-

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip> I've also been comped days here and there from past bosses, which is appreciated, but it still doesn't make up for the time that I miss with the husband and friends

Sounds like you need to find a new job. That kind of treatment is crap. If the work can't get done in the 45-hour work week it can only mean one thing: they need to *hire* more people.

-S.S.-

 

[Velocity Girl]

Sounds like you need to find a new job. That kind of treatment is crap. If the work can't get done in the 45-hour work week it can only mean one thing: they need to *hire* more people.

-S.S.-

When you're working for a startup hiring more people isn't always an option. But even when I was contracting at the Micro$ I still saw crap like that happen to the employees. Product has a deadline and they'll push as hard as they can to meet it. I was slightly absolved being a contractor so they couldn't force me to work OT, but at least if I did I got the OT pay. Maybe it's a regional thing because myself, husband, friends, and alot of my past and present co-workers have all been in the same boat at one time or another. Would they fire me right away for not working OT, no. But would it effect my bonuses, my raise, my advancement, or give them reason to eventually replace me...you betcha!

 

[Freak]

Man. What kind of crap companies do you people work for??

-S.S.-

T-MOBILE USA

:nuts:

 

[ohio]

Sounds like you need to find a new job. That kind of treatment is crap. If the work can't get done in the 45-hour work week it can only mean one thing: they need to *hire* more people.

-S.S.-

You wave a big enough carrot in front of people and they'll take anything.We've rebrnaded the carrot-and-stick as "a carrot at both ends".

I'm in an up-or-out industry with a great earnings curve. If I can ride this pony long enough, I'll be set. In the meantime, I'm wasting the prime of my life working 80 hour weeks.

I do have a no-weekend rule, though... I've only had to violate it once this year.

 

[SkaredShtles]

When you're working for a startup hiring more people isn't always an option.

Man, I count myself lucky. I worked for several places as a contractor, worked for a startup for 4 years, and now for a large company and can count on two hands the number of times I've worked more than 50 hours in a week.

Still sounds like you should find a different gig if you don't like the hours.

-S.S.-

 

[SkaredShtles]

You wave a big enough carrot in front of people and they'll take anything.We've rebrnaded the carrot-and-stick as "a carrot at both ends".

I'm in an up-or-out industry with a great earnings curve. If I can ride this pony long enough, I'll be set. In the meantime, I'm wasting the prime of my life working 80 hour weeks.

I don't get this...... the prime of life is to be enjoyed, not squandered at work.

Then again - I'll probably never be wealthy. <shrug>

-S.S.-

 

[blue]

Agreed that we are too sprawled out, but sometimes that's the only way to find affordable housing is to keep looking further and further from the major cities, and the further out you get, the worse the transportation gets....so you're caught between a rock and a hard place then.

True.

The United States has no sense of urban planning at all. Sprawl sprawl sprawl. Public transit is nearly nonexistant.

Unless we ween ourselves from the oil nipple and try to contain suburban rape, American quality of life and the economy will suffer severely. An economy that relies on a single commodity ultimately fails.

It's pretty sad when you're dependant on a black liquid made from dead crap to live.

 

[$tinkle]

The United States has no sense of urban planning at all. Sprawl sprawl sprawl. Public transit is nearly nonexistant.

or worse yet, check out suburban virginia: the d.c. metro tentacles reach 1/2way into west virginia & n.c. thanks to the VRE ("public transportation" - bah!), where as long as long as you can reach either terminis within a half-tank of gas, you can justify scraping off the land for a new subdivision.

 

[budgetrider]

Guys I was wrong, apparently some texans and brits were making money off of Saddam's oil 4 food credits. I guess their share of the pie just wasn't enough - either that or it really was WMD - Oh wait! that was last year's reason - this year's reason was to bring capitalism err I mean democracy to th middle east.

 

[Toshi]

Guys I was wrong, apparently some texans and brits were making money off of Saddam's oil 4 food credits. I guess their share of the pie just wasn't enough - either that or it really was WMD - Oh wait! that was last year's reason - this year's reason was to bring capitalism err I mean democracy to th middle east.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2005/s1346790.htm

KOFI ANNAN: The fact that the bulk of the money Saddam made came out of smuggling outside the Oil-for-Food, and it was on the American and British watch – they were the ones who had interdiction, possibly they were also the ones in the air – knew exactly what was going on.

JOHN SHOVELAN: Tom Casey, the US State Department spokesman, refused to directly address the claims of Mr Annan.

Instead he referred all queries to transcripts of testimony by departmental officials to Congressional inquiries.

...


JOHN SHOVELAN: In that testimony State Department officials agreed that the US and UK had allowed oil sales from Iraq to continue to Turkey and Jordan.

They were, according to State Department officials, made exceptions to the sanctions regime because of the severe consequences that a failing Jordanian and Turkish economy might have on the world.

US Government officials say the sales of oil to Iraq's neighbours was done transparently and with the full knowledge of the UN.

 

[fluff]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4445073.stm

Quote:


US tycoon in oil-for-food scandal

Under the UN programme, Iraq sold oil to buy civilian goods
A Texas oil tycoon, a Bulgarian and a Briton have been indicted over the UN oil-for-food programme, US federal prosecutors have said.

David Chalmers Jr, Ludmil Dionissiev and John Irving are accused of paying bribes to Saddam Hussein's regime.

 

[budgetrider]

John Irving is the unelected ruler of Atlantic Canada's oil gas and lumber industry, so I guess us Canadians are guilty too.

 

[MMike]

Off topic somwehat....but it would seem that gas prices fluctuate with teh market far more here (quebec) than in WA. Here it fluctates a few cents almost daily.

 

[Damn True]

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2005/s1346790.htm

wierd that Annan would say that when HIS SON was one of the administrators that was linning his pockets with the spoils of the program.

 

[fluff]

Good article on the Iraqi Oil Scandal Linky

Quotes:

It was inconceivable that the Americans, the main architects of sanctions against Iraq, did not know the sanctions-busting trade was going on. Together with their British allies, US military officers in the early 1990s ran a Military Co-ordination Committee (MCC) based in north-west Iraq near the Turkish border.

US and British military jets regularly patrolled the skies over the Kurdish "safe haven" in northern Iraq under the Provide Comfort mission, run from airbases inside southern Turkey.

A decision had clearly been taken to turn a blind eye to the lucrative trade. Nato ally Turkey was complaining bitterly that it was suffering huge commercial losses because of the ban on trade with Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

-----

Astonishing though the truck queues on the Turkish border were, they yielded markedly smaller dividends for Saddam Hussein's embattled regime than bigger-scale operations which supplied Iraqi crude to Jordan and Syria.

A report last year by the CIA analyst Charles A Duelfer estimated that the Baghdad regime made $4.4bn from oil sales to Jordan, and $2.8bn from supplies to Syria. The trade with Turkey, the Duelfer report concluded, added a relatively modest $710m to Saddam Hussein's coffers.

The US was also clearly aware of these huge shipments to Jordan and Syria, and lesser ones to Egypt (fourth on the list of importers from Iraq, after Turkey). All four countries were regarded as allies, even at that time Syria, which had joined the coalition in the Desert Storm campaign.

As early as 1991, the UN's own Sanctions Committee "took note" of the Iraqi deliveries to Jordan. But nobody did anything about them. Jordan, like Turkey, was complaining about the disastrous economic repercussions it was suffering from the sanctions against Iraq.

All enquiries and reports so far have agreed that the figures involved in the smuggling operations dwarfed the sums the Baathist regime allegedly made from corrupt implementation of the UN-administered Oil-for-Food programme.

According to the Duelfer report, Baghdad benefited to the tune of around $1.7bn from Oil for Food kickbacks - a mere 16% of the estimated $11bn or so the regime allegedly gained from illicit commerce between 1990 and 2003.