Why the Roadie Hate? Idiots.

RhinofromWA · May 11, 2004

There are rules for everyone on the road. Bicyclists and motorists alike. In the end physics win.....a car trumps a bike. Laws don't mean a damn when you are pinned under a car. I know that a truck is going to win in any interaction between us.

If you want to ride blindly holding your rights over laws of physics. I hope you never have to learn who teh ultimate winner is...

Roads are to be shared....BUT, if you are on a bike that cannot do the speed limit and there are vehicles behind you than rightfully so you should allow all possible chance to pass....so both you and the motorist get home safely. This isn't drivers ed. this is common sense.

Why not allow room to pass? Because you are pissed at cars? :confused:

Talk at the intersections. Use bike paths when available.

binary visions · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by Clark Kent
If you want to be a cowering fool then go ahead.

Uh huh. Because a realistic assessment of my chances going head-to-head with a 2000+ lb. block of steel is being a "cowering fool". If you're going to stand your ground and get killed over something as rediculous as this.. That's your choice, but forgive me if I don't stand next to you :rolleyes:

And what's with this "Kids..."? Feeling a little superior, are we?

I have no problem getting out of the way for cyclists, and if they are actually following acceptable road speeds, they're welcome to their lane - I'll pass if a safe opportunity presents itself. But I find it to be very, very rare that a cyclist is actually traveling at a safe speed - most putter along at 10-15mph. I'd never endanger a cyclist, but come on guys, do you really think everyone on a road bike is keeping up to the minimum speed limit?

On the other hand, people who are simply endangering cyclists for no good reason should be run off the road and beaten into unconsciousness.

LordOpie · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by Serial Midget
I really thought you were better than that Rhino...

you and a few others are misunderstanding something critical and y'all are arguing apples to oranges.

I'm certain Rhino isn't an asshole on the road, I'm sure he's saying it's better to yield then be right and dead. I don't think he's advocating the garbage, just saying, beware.

LordOpie · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by binary visions
And what's with this "Kids..."? Feeling a little superior, are we?

Clark Kent's a rather grumpy, self-righteous poster. You'll see that from his posting style and you'll get used to it.

RhinofromWA · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Except that there are millions and millions more automobiles out there and comparatively few road cyclists. If you cannot spare 10 seconds and a bit of consideration then I have no respect for you as a fellow monkey.

I would also like to point out that I live in a rural location - in the 20 miles of this ride I doubt we encountered more than 20 cars - I do not live in a congested urban area and these events are not the result of road rage - there are basically motorists targeting cyclists because there is no one else around to witness their acts - it is VERY common and will happen to almost every road biker on nearly every ride. It has nothing to do with inconsiderate cyclists slowing down traffic.

I really thought you were better than that Rhino...

99% of my earlier posts were not directed at you and I can't explain why the dumbarses screwed with you. That was in my first post.

Because a bicyclist is in the minority doesn't mean they can't try and coexist....again this is not regarding you. 10 seconds is one thing....I understand if there is no shoulder, but if you pass up the Burke Gilman Trail (mega bike path a half a block over) and still ride side by side on an industrial road with a speed limit of 45mph.....come on. Who handed the road over to you?

I can't believe the vaginal bleeding that comes from cyclists mouths...I guess I can circle the wagons and sing Kumbi-ya (yeah I never could spell that

) Woodinville it is big on bicyclesist I pass maybe 6-12 in just the first 3 miles on my commute. The same commute that parrallels a beautifull straight shot on the Burke-Gilman....no cars there....go as fast as you want to. Now because I can sypathise with some riders doesn't mean I have to agree with how some of them act. Do you think these stereotypes just get made up? It is the us vs. them attitude that creates friction all the time. Cars and roadies, XC and DH, etc.

I expected a little thicker skin from an awsome cyclist of your stature....er uh experience.

Inconsiderate commuters, no matter what they choose to do it in, are the problem. You don't get a "be a dick for free" card when you decide to ride a bike. Again not SM-you a generic rider-you.

Next time you are out on the road try tunring without signaling or cross an intersection without making sure every motorist knows you are there........you don't? Why? Becuase it is better to ride defensively than assume others will follow the letter of the law. Beacause if they don't you pay the consequence, and I don't want to ever hear of SM getting tangled up under a car.

It is no different than a motorcyclist....you have to watch out for others because you are the only one you can trust.

Anyways, we all have to share the road....no one owns it. But riding into the road 2 wide when they can just as easy ride single file and allow others to pass (safer for everyone) is jsut plain inconsiderate. never mind the Burke Gilman trail is easily accessable and it is not used....instead using an industrial 45mph road.

10 seconds out of your buddy/buddy cyclist talking time to allow cars to pass is a small price to pay for everyone to get home in one peice.

Respect is a two way street. I show it but get annoyed when cyclists with viable options dissregard others.

shocktower · May 11, 2004

is some peoples just can`t fricking share ,BFD if some one is riding/driving to fricking slow for you when the time is right you will beable to pass .In the mean time change your frickng rag you snivily biyatches and let people be

fonseca · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
They weren't doing 45mph yesterday, or my speedometer is off......you choose.

R

But riding into the road 2 wide when they can just as easy ride single file and allow others to pass (safer for everyone) is jsut plain inconsiderate.

But they don't have to do 45mph. That is the maximum allowed speed. Depending on the State they only have to do 20-25mph, the minimum speed for the road. As long as they are doing that they have every right to take up the entire lane, and if they are riding a section of road that cars can't safely pass them, that's what they should be doing.

I don't like getting stuck behind roadies either. But I also don't like getting stuck behind the elderly, school buses, and big industrial vehicles. But I deal with it because they have just as much right as I do to use the road as long as they are going the minimum speed.

LordOpie · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by fonseca
But they don't have to do 45mph. That is the maximum allowed speed. Depending on the State they only have to do 20-25mph, the minimum speed for the road. As long as they are doing that they have every right to take up the entire lane, and if they are riding a section of road that cars can't safely pass them, that's what they should be doing.

and how do you propose that we explain the logic and safety reasons to the car tailgating us?

I ride one of the canyons near me every weekend. The average posted speed on the turns is 15-20mpg... are you seriously proposing that I take up the lane so that a car cannot pass until we've cleared the blind curve?

While it does make sense, I could almost guarantee that I'd either get run over or shot.

Physics wins out and when accompanied by rage and/or ignorance, well, I'd rather not tempt fate.

BurlyShirley · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by LordOpie

Physics wins out and when accompanied by rage and/or ignorance, well, I'd rather not tempt fate.

Yeah, or tempt some guy like Clark Kent who likes trucks instad of roadbikes.

Skookum · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by RhinofromWA

Because a bicyclist is in the minority doesn't mean they can't try and coexist....again this is not regarding you. 10 seconds is one thing....I understand if there is no shoulder, but if you pass up the Burke Gilman Trail (mega bike path a half a block over) and still ride side by side on an industrial road with a speed limit of 45mph.....come on. Who handed the road over to you?

I can't believe the vaginal bleeding that comes from cyclists mouths...

Your second quote is interesting since it seems apparent to me that it's the driver's problem of lacking patience and lacking driving skills. So who's vagina's are actually bleeding and even moreso important who holds the keys so to speak of more responibility. Driving a car you hold the power to take a cyclists/pedestrians life in more cases than a cyclist has power over your driving habits to harm you. That's why there are tons of bad drivers out there, they don't realize the power they hold. Only until someone dies, and then maybe not even then.
I see MANY instances where people are jaywalking and endanger themselves and traffic. If cyclists are following the LAWS of the road, then you really should have no basis for complaint.
I know how frustrating being stuck in Seattle traffic can be, i won't blame the occasional pack of cyclists though, who decide they want to travel at more than 15 mph which is the speed limit thru Burke-Gilman which is a multi-use trail, not just a bike trail. You should be happy that they don't haul ass and close down the Burke-Gilman to ALL bike traffic, then you'd have something to REALLY complain about. (Can you say Huffy Cruiser with a basket?) Besides Lake City Way is always bad regardless...... Blame the local government for all the traffic it's really their fault in poor planning if you think about it.
Accidents happen, certainly, but i'm not gonna sit here and say well cyclist's they've got it coming for being on my road..... That's not good thinkin.
So what's next, we gonna complain about tractors, trucks with oversized loads, the religious weirdo's that cart around in horse and buggies? Them goddamn religous freaks got it comin, buy a frikkin car for crissakes.....
This world we live in is in such a big frikkin rush........ Next thing you know is you're dead, hopefully you don't kill anyone along the way.

disclosednot · May 11, 2004

Just to throw in my opinion about riding dual in a lane or riding center. I admit I do both. I make a seven mile commute two times a day between school and work, much of that commute involves four lane roads. I have found that it is by far more dangerous for me to accomodate a pass than it is to block it. When I move to the right side of MY lane I find that cars will pass in my lane while the other lane remains completely open on a four lane or they will pass with on-coming traffic and then ease over on me when they get anxious about going head on with another SUV. Taking the lane is not only legal but it puts the cyclist in a safer position as far as being seen and how the car will pass.

Laws of physics aside, sometimes in city riding it is completely understandable and necessary to cycle aggressive just to make cars aware of the cause and to save your own ass. Just because the speed limit is 45 that doesn't mean that traffic should be moving at that speed. The word "limit" is the key to all this. "Limit" implies that well that the most you can do. Bikes have just as much right on the road and car users need to be made aware of that. Interstates are designed for "car only" traffic not highways.

fonseca · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by LordOpie
are you seriously proposing that I take up the lane so that a car cannot pass until we've cleared the blind curve?

That's not what I was proposing at all.

if they are riding a section of road that cars can't safely pass them

See disclosednot's post above. Cyclists should take the lane when it's not safe to share it with cars.

LordOpie · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by fonseca
That's not what I was proposing at all.

See disclosednot's post above. Cyclists should take the lane when it's not safe to share it with cars.

oh, I understood what you're suggesting... you must live in fairyland cuz I think most places in the world you'd get hurt for that.

I know that one time in a hundred I'd get run off the road. out of the 10 times i'd get run off, i'd get run over.

blue · May 11, 2004

In the interest of everyones safety, cyclists shouldn't take a lane just because they can. While the law says they can, it's typically not a terribly bright thing to do when you have traffic trying to go by you at 45 MPH.

However, cyclists have as much right as anyone (Car, motorcycle, bus, farm tractor) to use the road. Yes, sometimes there are cyclists riding two abreast, and perhaps they're doing it for a reason. Maybe they're avoiding something that a 700x23c tire can't run over (I'm fresh from drivers ed, and they specifically instructed us that cyclists may ride wide into the road to avoid "obstacles" as it were). Maybe they're drafting because of insane crosswinds. Maybe they're just plain stupid and inconsiderate. There are stupid and inconsiderate types in every bunch, roadies, motorists, MTBers, hikers, you name it. There's always going to be, and bitching about how dumb those bad apples are is only going to piss off the 90 percent of the group that is trying to be respectful and considerate to others.

Be nice, respect everyone, and ride more.

RhinofromWA · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by Skookum
Your second quote is interesting since it seems apparent to me that it's the driver's problem of lacking patience and lacking driving skills. So who's vagina's are actually bleeding and even moreso important who holds the keys so to speak of more responibility. Driving a car you hold the power to take a cyclists/pedestrians life in more cases than a cyclist has power over your driving habits to harm you. That's why there are tons of bad drivers out there, they don't realize the power they hold. Only until someone dies, and then maybe not even then.
I see MANY instances where people are jaywalking and endanger themselves and traffic. If cyclists are following the LAWS of the road, then you really should have no basis for complaint.
I know how frustrating being stuck in Seattle traffic can be, i won't blame the occasional pack of cyclists though, who decide they want to travel at more than 15 mph which is the speed limit thru Burke-Gilman which is a multi-use trail, not just a bike trail. You should be happy that they don't haul ass and close down the Burke-Gilman to ALL bike traffic, then you'd have something to REALLY complain about. (Can you say Huffy Cruiser with a basket?) Besides Lake City Way is always bad regardless...... Blame the local government for all the traffic it's really their fault in poor planning if you think about it.
Accidents happen, certainly, but i'm not gonna sit here and say well cyclist's they've got it coming for being on my road..... That's not good thinkin.
So what's next, we gonna complain about tractors, trucks with oversized loads, the religious weirdo's that cart around in horse and buggies? Them goddamn religous freaks got it comin, buy a frikkin car for crissakes.....
This world we live in is in such a big frikkin rush........ Next thing you know is you're dead, hopefully you don't kill anyone along the way.

Now Skooks.....if bicyclists cannot maintain speed for conditions than they are creating a hazard for everyone around them. They don't maintain 45-40-35-30mph and that is where the problem arises....more so if they are in the middle of the lane.

If you choose to ride so cars can't pass "cuz you can" than you invite negative feelings/emotions. If you can just as easily ride the white line and let the same people pass gingerly and choose not to you ARE the stereo type.....but then I guess it wouldn't be a stereotype if it were true at that moment.

People are coming after me like I am a bad guy for stating that for all of a bikers rights......the paper won't do sh!t for you under a truck.

Truck wins everytime....well no one wins, but the bicyclist pays the price. I don't want to see that happen. If you are holding uptraffic at 15mph than you need to be considerate of others and hug that white stripe......

Simple thought process? If not than you are part of the problem. Look at how much "power" we think we have because we ride a bike....it is an empty power that can get us hurt. Crossing at a cross walk without looking is a good example of people blindly following law believing they have the ultimate right....until they pay the ultimate price.

I yeild to motorist if I can becuase they win the might makes right contest....I am not going to challenge the grill of a 1988 Ford Ranger because some peice of paper says I have the right of way.

If they are mooning me, or running me off the road that is different and uncalled for. Yet motorists have a right to travel up to the speed limit, conditions permiting. 15mph cyclists can yield, yet they choose not to.

The Burke Gilman is not strictly enforced, I grew up on it and ride it atleast 3 times a summer if not more. It is everything a commuter wants....no cars, no intersetions, occasional pedestrians. You will cover more ground on the Burke Gilman than surface streets because of the lack of traffic. Reasons listed for not using the bike path are baseless (no traffic, speed limit not enforced, etc) to flex your reglatory rights as commuters on the street. That is cool as long as you don't end up under a car.

RhinofromWA · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by Serial Midget
The chances of getting side-swiped by a rear view mirror are pretty good.

Uh side mirror? If you get hit by the rear view mirror you gots a load of other trouble.

j/k SM I ammusse myself sometimes.

In many cases I am actually capable of going faster than a car when going downhill but I don't try to pass - I get in the lane and force the vehicle behind to notice me by being in their line of vision - in many cases it is far safer to be in front or behind than it is to be beside a vehicle.

Downhill? Well yeah. :confused:

No one is arguing if you can ride the road at speed when going down hill. It is if you can't ride teh speed limit and are holding up cars than some effort to atleast ride single file is not to much to ask.

I have ridden street a bunch....didn't always drive.

Though never on a road bike, I have logged many miles on the road (in college especially) and if the cyclist yields when they can (cause they are slower generally) than everyone is OK and goes abotu their business. No negative stereotypes or anything.

LordOpie · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by Serial Midget
A few more years experience and you'll get it - it really is safer to take the lane than cower at the side...

who the hell is cowering? I'm talking about being realistic.

I have personally experienced enough road rage to know that once in a blue moon your style of riding would get me killed

:rolleyes:

Look if those of you advocating that type of riding have either nicer drivers or a geography that works for you, well, happy fvcking day. But that sh:t don't fly here.

Ok, I'm done with this thread, it got stupid long ago...

DHRacer · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by RhinofromWA

I can't believe the vaginal bleeding that comes from cyclists mouths...

wow... graphic.

Skookum · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Now Skooks.....if bicyclists cannot maintain speed for conditions than they are creating a hazard for everyone around them. They don't maintain 45-40-35-30mph and that is where the problem arises....more so if they are in the middle of the lane.

If you choose to ride so cars can't pass "cuz you can" than you invite negative feelings/emotions. If you can just as easily ride the white line and let the same people pass gingerly and choose not to you ARE the stereo type.....but then I guess it wouldn't be a stereotype if it were true at that moment.

People are coming after me like I am a bad guy for stating that for all of a bikers rights......the paper won't do sh!t for you under a truck. Truck wins everytime....well no one wins, but the bicyclist pays the price. I don't want to see that happen. If you are holding uptraffic at 15mph than you need to be considerate of others and hug that white stripe......

Simple thought process? If not than you are part of the problem. Look at how much "power" we think we have because we ride a bike....it is an empty power that can get us hurt. Crossing at a cross walk without looking is a good example of people blindly following law believing they have the ultimate right....until they pay the ultimate price.

I yeild to motorist if I can becuase they win the might makes right contest....I am not going to challenge the grill of a 1988 Ford Ranger because some peice of paper says I have the right of way.

If they are mooning me, or running me off the road that is different and uncalled for. Yet motorists have a right to travel up to the speed limit, conditions permiting. 15mph cyclists can yield, yet they choose not to.

The Burke Gilman is not strictly enforced, I grew up on it and ride it atleast 3 times a summer if not more. It is everything a commuter wants....no cars, no intersetions, occasional pedestrians. You will cover more ground on the Burke Gilman than surface streets because of the lack of traffic. Reasons listed for not using the bike path are baseless (no traffic, speed limit not enforced, etc) to flex your reglatory rights as commuters on the street. That is cool as long as you don't end up under a car.

Uhgh...... shall i let you have it? or not..... nahhh i got better things i gotta do than dissect your flawed thought process and statements.

RhinofromWA · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by DHRacer
wow... graphic.

Yeah that was over the top.....I need to appologize to everyone.

Could have gone with a something better. One of those things that probably should have just been thought.

Sorry.

Rhino

Skookum · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Yeah that was over the top.....I need to appologize to everyone. Could have gone with a something better. One of those things that probably should have just been thought.

Sorry.

Rhino

Don't you mean ALL of those things?:devil:

DHRacer · May 11, 2004

Dang, all the fighting in here, you'd think we were in the Poly Debate Forum.

As far as the respect thing for Rhino goes... you have to have respect for a guy that holds true to what he believes (whether you agree with it or not)... and Rhino will be the first to apologize for a mistake. He's a good guy. Don't discount someone just because they dont' see something the way you see it. If that were the case, you wouldn't respect ANYONE.... because not everyone sees everything the same way you do.

RhinofromWA · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Sorry Rhino - Your statements pretty much guaranteed that you have very limited knowlege of the realities of Burke Gilman. I'm not buying it and I happen to know that the speed limit is enforced on a regular basis - most of the residents along the trail are opposed to any cyclists traffic at any speed. The tickets are about $70.00... just ask any member of the Cascade Cycling Club.

Anyhow I honestly had a lot more respect for you before I read your posts in this thread. It's obvious that we will never see eye to eye on this issue.

Born and raised (last 28 years) less than 5 miles from it.

Taken to vist buddy in lake city way from Bothell to 145th during the summer twice a week before I could drive there.

Recreational rides from Bothell to Marymoore and Bothell to UW for fun at least a few times a summer. I get passed by cyclists all the time....they fly. They pass nice and we all get along.

I have said many times in this thread that what was done to you was wrong. That fact that I think cyclist should behave differently is a different subject and discussion. Maybe my vaginal comment offended you but I take offence that somehow I am less of a person becuase I respect the pure size of an automobile and understand what it can do to me.

I still dig you SM, and maybe you are still all fired up about what was done to you....and rightfully so. That is a seperate subject from what I have been disscussing. I am sure the hate towards you was unwarranted. But to assume I know very little becuase I think different than you is very narrow minded. I assume you are still pissed at the jerks in the truck. You can be mad at me too, but that doesn't change what I ahve been saying.

Heck I will even buy you a beer next time I see you, if you ever want to see me. I can't drink so I guess it will be a cheap date :eek:

for me.

I am more concerned with Clarke Kents ideas/attitudes towards road riding.

RhinofromWA · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by Skookum
Don't you mean ALL of those things?:devil:

No I was pretty vulgar....mostly in that one line.

It was uncalled for. I hope someone laughed at it...because said in the right tone (missing from messege boards

) it can be funny....honest.

Silver · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
You mean they show up for a case of assault? Freaking biased cops!

Road rage is one thing.....assault is another.

I don't think anyone responded to this yet.

Threatening a cyclist with a car seems to me to be assault with a deadly weapon.

Remember, you don't actually have to hit someone to make it assault (because then it is battery.) All you need to do is make someone feel threatened. The fact that cops don't take this seriously is not a good thing...

SM is dead on too. I'd much rather share the road with a professional trucker than a soccer mom. I swear some of them try to see how close they can get to you before their kid starts crying or something...

LordOpie · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
I am more concerned with Clarke Kents ideas/attitudes towards road riding.

RhinofromWA · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by Silver
I don't think anyone responded to this yet.

Threatening a cyclist with a car seems to me to be assault with a deadly weapon.

Remember, you don't actually have to hit someone to make it assault (because then it is battery.) All you need to do is make someone feel threatened. The fact that cops don't take this seriously is not a good thing...

SM is dead on too. I'd much rather share the road with a professional trucker than a soccer mom. I swear some of them try to see how close they can get to you before their kid starts crying or something...

You are right it is no different and somehow I think the lack of response on the bicyclists side is somewhat over dramaticized.(sp?) :rolleyes:

Cops would handle a road rage case like all others and send a warning (atleast that is what I have seen happen around here when not actually caught by a cop in the act of road rage).

The grass is always greener....or something.

I like that soccer mom thing....kids screaming or something LOL

dh girlie · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by johnbryanpeters
If you want to get into being a road gladiator, you're better doing it at speed than when you're moving slowly, your platform is more stable. That being said, It's not necessarily wise to provide an opportunity for escalation.

The phenomenon is user group conflict - cars and road bikers is just one place it gets expressed.

J

How can you type while sitting in the yoga position, wise one?

RhinofromWA · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by Serial Midget
That comment was funny but as the opposition I chose not to acknowledge it.

What bothers me is your assertion that might equals right - all things must yeild to that which is bigger regarless of the law. You seem to want courtesy but aren't willing to extend any - bycyclists seldom get any slack from drivers - road cyclists have to be assertive. You call it inconsiderate - I call it defensive; in my eyes your attitude justifies my defensiveness.

Nice big circle...

How many bikes slow you down in a weeks worth of commuting and how much time is that? I assert that the other vehicles are slowing you down far more - most drivers don't have the balls to admit that they are part of the traffic problem. Far easier to point your finger at a bicyclist slowing you down for a few seconds than it is to recogize that you are contributing to and participating in a far bigger problem.

In the primal world...might does make right...unless you are quick

In my commute...it veries from say 10sec to a minute. not alot right? It isn't really...unless you recognize the fact that it doesn't even need to be 10sec. I can't get around john doe in his escort. doing the speed limit where most commuters live

think: well plus 5-10mph

) but a cyclist that I can pass with little effort from me...trust me I give them a wide birth....gets my respect. it is a mutual respect.

Well them and that guy with the little gas motor on his road bike...that was pretty cool.

(saw that last week....little 2 stroke engine buzzing along up a slight hill....slacks, shirt and tie and all. It was a sight.)

dh girlie · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Please do not do this to my friendly discusion. Thank you.

do what...

and from the few posts I read, it certainly doesn't look too friendly...there are some mean f ukkers...

RhinofromWA · May 11, 2004

Originally posted by Serial Midget
What bothers me is your assertion that might equals right - all things must yeild to that which is bigger regarless of the law. You seem to want courtesy but aren't willing to extend any - bycyclists seldom get any slack from drivers - road cyclists have to be assertive. You call it inconsiderate - I call it defensive; in my eyes your attitude justifies my defensiveness.

Nice big circle...

To me defensive driving/riding is being aware of your surroundings and giving situations which can easily be avoid a wider birth. I do it on a street (motor) bike all the time. I assume I am the only one going to keep myself out of the meet wagon so I choose to repect larger objects for what they are....

Rhino crushers.

Iwould call that attitude Offensive riding not Defensive. Personally Defensive for you, but Offensive to every other motorist.

Why the Roadie Hate? Idiots.

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