[sama1ter]

Trying to shop for a new guide....what is the weight of a MRP system 2 slaolem? weight of e13(that would fit a 36t) and weight of just the mrp bash and e13 bash?

 

[Curb Hucker]

Trying to shop for a new guide....what is the weight of a MRP system 2 slaolem? weight of e13(that would fit a 36t) and weight of just the mrp bash and e13 bash?

actually you should look into a new system 3 slalom, with the AL/lexan overmold bashring. call mrp to get a weight

 

[ssaddict]

actually you should look into a new system 3 slalom, with the AL/lexan overmold bashring. call mrp to get a weight

Why? So he can be the first one to have one fail?

 

[math2014]

and the best, apart from lightest.

For extreme race use,.... the formula SRS iirc is the absolut lightest... CF backplate and Ti bolts

 

[Zark]

the formula SRS iirc is the absolut lightest... CF backplate and Ti bolts

Its discontinued bro.

 

[dw]

Hey man,

Here is a link with a bunch of that info from last weekhttp://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100297

The SRS is a reliable, secure, and lightweight option for keeping your chain on.

For the bashgaurd, the Supercharger (e.thirteen bashguard) is built from our own proprietary engineering thermoplastic called Tuffmax. Because Tuffmax is significantly stronger than any other plastic that is available to common builders, it allows us to build virtually unbreakable bashgards without having to resort to any type of bendable aluminum insert like VioletVolante was mentioning. Taking the bendable metal out of the system was one of the primary goals of the e.thirteen bashguard in the first place!

If you need any help at all with e.thirteen questions, feel free to drop us a line at support@e13components.com.

Have a good one nad thanks!

Dave

 

[math2014]

Its discontinued bro.

bummer, it should be perfect for ultrapicky racers

 

[dw]

Its discontinued bro.

Just long enough to get a facelift!

 

[dw]

bummer, it should be perfect for ultrapicky racers

Dont worry, it will be back!

And better too.

 

[Zark]

Just long enough to get a facelift!

Oh, hehe, good to know

 

[Mani_UT]

e.13 is the lightest bashguard equipped guide. nuf' said.

I don't think so.
Light yes. Lightest no

My own model was 270g complete with ALL hardware.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86460&highlight=isotropic

I also have one of these new carbon system 3 from MRP and it seems VERY light. I'll weigh it tomorrow at work.

There is NO WAY the standard non carbon e.13 can be lighter. We all know that the back aluminum plate is huge and heavy (that's the first thing I wanted to remove from mine when I got it as it seemed overbuild for my use). The second thing were the 4 washers on the lexan plate... Can someone tell me why we have to keep them? It seemed important (looking at the isntructions) but I ran mine for a year without them and nothing went wrong (which is good obviously)

 

[Mani_UT]

Dont worry, it will be back!
And better too.

and that's good because they were purdyyyyy
(yeah I am a carbon whore )

 

[sama1ter]

still havnt answered 2 of my questions, what is the weight of the mrp bash, vs the e13 one? also, what is the weight difference between the 2?
Also, anyone have that link for the e13 to fit saint cranks?

 

[punkassean]

Newer E13's will fit Saint and other than that all you need is a file and five minutes, what you need to do is obvious I believe.

 

[ssaddict]

still havnt answered 2 of my questions, what is the weight of the mrp bash, vs the e13 one? also, what is the weight difference between the 2?
Also, anyone have that link for the e13 to fit saint cranks?

The weight of the e13 system can vary depending on your bike and setup. If you use the adapter plate or if you have ICGS mounts already on your bike for instance, or if you have to space out your boomerang with washers to adjust for your chainline. What size ring do you want to run, the superchargers come in different sizes too? The Supercharger mold has also been changed for '05 and now fits pretty much everything on the market we have tried yet, Saint's included without any modification.



But seriously, do you want the best chainguide that has proven itself on the WC and National circuit over and over for 3yrs, or do you want the lightest?

Hell, just make your own with carbon sheets for that reason.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Why? So he can be the first one to have one fail?

My MRP's have always worked fine.

 

[dw]

I don't think so.
Light yes. Lightest no

My own model was 270g complete with ALL hardware.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86460&highlight=isotropic

I also have one of these new carbon system 3 from MRP and it seems VERY light. I'll weigh it tomorrow at work.

There is NO WAY the standard non carbon e.13 can be lighter. We all know that the back aluminum plate is huge and heavy (that's the first thing I wanted to remove from mine when I got it as it seemed overbuild for my use). The second thing were the 4 washers on the lexan plate... Can someone tell me why we have to keep them? It seemed important (looking at the isntructions) but I ran mine for a year without them and nothing went wrong (which is good obviously)

You see, the reality of the situation is that, although your carbon guide is a VERY pretty piece of carbon, its use as a bashguard falls at a very distant second to a supercharger. Having built and tested my own using my own custom designed carbon laminate bashguards, I can say that with pretty sure confidence. (The ones we built (for the formula project) used a mix of 30 and 45KSI fiber blended for stiffness and impact reisistance, but could not take the 6' to rock test simulation)

The back plate on the e.thirteen is strong at the base because that is the part that people blast into rocks constantly! With BB heights on DH bikes going lower and lower (The Sunday is 13.9 with 8" fork and rear travel), it is pretty important in my opinion to have a chainguide lower that can take some impact. The e.thirteen lower is SOOOOO much tougher and stiffer than a 1/8 inch thick aluminum plate, and it needs to be. The reality is that the stiffening ribs on the e.thirteen add less than 40 grams to the entire guide, and add a ton of stength and chain keeping security under impact.

You see, the goal for designing the SRS was first and foremost to keep the chain on the bike during a race run. We worked hard to develop a system that would do that first, then after that, we made it light. Its possible to build a chianguide with some of the features of the SRS, and go thinner and cheaper on materials, but in the end, will it really have the same performance? Most likely not is my guess. We are still kicking ass on developemt over here, things like the new Tuffmax alloy in the bashguard are a testament to that. We'll keep pushing, and I hope that this determination to improve will keep the SRS as the benchmark it is today.

The washers are there to distribute the load of the chainring bolt heads to the bashguard itself. If a rider overtorques the chainring bolts during install, the washers will keep the bolt heads from pushing into the bashguard. We have a few other methods that we have used to prevent this also, but this one is the cheapest and easiest to implement.


sama1ter,

Take a look at the link that I posted before. There is a lot of weigt info in there.

Single or Dual aluminum plates that are 3.18mm thick are also pretty useless as a bashgaurd as most seasoned DHers I think will agree. A supercharger is lighter than and hugely stronger than dual 3.18mm thick aluminum plates.

Hope this helps!

Dave

 

[ssaddict]

My MRP's have always worked fine.

If you run a hi bb and never hit the plates i'm sure they do. But I was specificly talking about the new "lexan" one, from what i have seen I believe there will be some issues with it. I also think its a little silly to also recommend a product that isn't even out just yet.


Don't suppose any of you saw Carter drop his chain off his MRP and loose the final Jeep KOM salom race from TX?

 

[Brian HCM#1]

If you run a hi bb and never hit the plates i'm sure they do. But I was specificly talking about the new "lexan" one, from what i have seen I believe there will be some issues with it. I also think its a little silly to also recommend a product that isn't even out just yet.


Don't suppose any of you saw Carter drop his chain off his MRP and loose the final Jeep KOM salom race from TX?

Maybe it wasn't set up correctly?

 

[Mani_UT]

You see, the reality of the situation is that, although your carbon guide is a VERY pretty piece of carbon, its use as a bashguard falls at a very distant second to a supercharger.

I 100% agree! Which is why the design evolved toward.... this...

Solid 6-4 Ti outer rings on a toughened epoxy system for the main carier
Obvisouly NOT something that could be sold because of ridiculous material cost but entertaining to build none the less!

As far as the boomerang goes, the way I like to run mine (pushed way up against the chain stays, it never hits anything which is why I can get away with a 40g piece of carbon there).

For a production-sell-to-anyone approach I -as most people here- can appreciate your concept (geez I even got one for myself!) but I think there is a market for the less-bash-less-weight people and your formula concept. I don't know if people are willing to put up with the price such parts command though.

Thanks also for the reason behind the washer!! Since I don't (I believe) overtorque my screws I'll keep running my SRS without them!

 

[ssaddict]

Maybe it wasn't set up correctly?

If it was anyone else I'd easily agree, but Carter is like a roadie when it comes to bike setup, kind anal. To drop a chain on a fairly smooth DS course?!?


I'm not out to hate MRP or anyone else, there is room for everyone's product. But it took me 3yrs of bending and breaking stuff (every manufacture and home built stuff) before I finally broke down and bought my first e13 guide... and haven't looked back since. DW's been testing and improving this guide for over 4yrs, you really can't deny it's place at the top of the chainguide foodchain.

 

[dw]

I 100% agree! Which is why the design evolved toward.... this...

Solid 6-4 Ti outer rings on a toughened epoxy system for the main carier
Obvisouly NOT something that could be sold because of ridiculous material cost but entertaining to build none the less!

As far as the boomerang goes, the way I like to run mine (pushed way up against the chain stays, it never hits anything which is why I can get away with a 40g piece of carbon there).

For a production-sell-to-anyone approach I -as most people here- can appreciate your concept (geez I even got one for myself!) but I think there is a market for the less-bash-less-weight people and your formula concept. I don't know if people are willing to put up with the price such parts command though.

Thanks also for the reason behind the washer!! Since I don't (I believe) overtorque my screws I'll keep running my SRS without them!

Im with you totlaly, the failure mode that I found in the carbon guard was at the point where it mounted to the spider, not at the outside. I dont think the Ti ring on the outside could alleviate this, but I would love to test it and see. Its pretty cool nonetheless!

I also agree that there might be a market for lightweight chainguides that cant take any sort of abuse in terms of bashing. It kills me to see some companes claim that their product has a "bashguard" because most are not really usable in that respect. I dont think it is as big a market for those light guides, just because most people are pretty happy to use the already really light SRS and not have to worry about it, but it must exist. That was where the formula program came in before, and where it will continue to head. We have a bunch of cool stuff planned over the next couple years.

Dave

 

[ssaddict]

I 100% agree! Which is why the design evolved toward.... this...


Thanks also for the reason behind the washer!! Since I don't (I believe) overtorque my screws I'll keep running my SRS without them!

So what kind of bike are you running that on, not a dh bike I imagine. That is some nice work though.


Some people have managed to crack those tabs by over torqueing them without washers, or if you case something it helps distribute the stress better too. The insurance is worth the extra 5g.

 

[Jm_]

But seriously, do you want the best chainguide that has proven itself on the WC and National circuit over and over for 3yrs, or do you want the lightest?

But seriously, do you want the best cranks, or the lightest??

We're probably all guilty of going with heavier more proven components at times, and in other cases sometimes going with lighter stuff that maybe isn't the best long term choice...

 

[ssaddict]

But seriously, do you want the best cranks, or the lightest??

We're probably all guilty of going with heavier more proven components at times, and in other cases sometimes going with lighter stuff that maybe isn't the best long term choice...

Hey, I'm a self declared weight weanie, but I'm also learning things... slowly. :eviltongu

Ya see, I've ran Truvativ XC prototype's all season, so actually Profiles mini's would be a HUGE strength improvement.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

If it was anyone else I'd easily agree, but Carter is like a roadie when it comes to bike setup, kind anal. To drop a chain on a fairly smooth DS course?!?


I'm not out to hate MRP or anyone else, there is room for everyone's product. But it took me 3yrs of bending and breaking stuff (every manufacture and home built stuff) before I finally broke down and bought my first e13 guide... and haven't looked back since. DW's been testing and improving this guide for over 4yrs, you really can't deny it's place at the top of the chainguide foodchain.

Its a mechanical device, there ALWAYS can be failures. I've seen e13 guides drop chains before. I like both e13 products & MRP's and have a e13/Evil SRS on my DS bike a DRS on my trail bike and a MRP on my DH bike, but with a supercharger. The weakest link on the MRP is the outer plate, I had the supercharger on both my DH bikes since 2002 and NEVER had a chain dropping issue, and thats riding at N*.

 

[dw]

I agree that there can always be failures with a mechanical device, there always will be, but I personally have only seen a properly set up SRS guide drop a chain one time in my life. That was when Avery Buch got a 1/4 inch diameter maple sapling wrapped all the way around his chainring and jammed in between the chain and the teeth on his chainring. In the two years that I ran other guides (1999, 2000) I had numerous chain drops, derailments, and breakages. Since late 2000 when I started working on the SRS, I have not had one. Not even one. I **** you not. I know a lot of other people in the same boat as me, they call and write all the time! I dont really have a point with this, just rambling.

Thats cool that you have your guide working for you, and thats all that matter, right?!!

Keep riding!

dw

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Thats cool that you have your guide working for you, and thats all that matter, right?!!

Keep riding!

dw

Thats the bootom line isn't it? If it works as it's supposed to do it's all good. However Dave, I was interested in using one of your guides on my Armageddon several months ago and sent you an email several months ago and never got a reply You made mention of making an adaptor that would work on a Karpiel without using a 128mm BB. Well?

 

[Mani_UT]

So what kind of bike are you running that on, not a dh bike I imagine. That is some nice work though.
.

Actually I run these chain guides on my cuervo.. No problems so far.
And I am not exactly a “smooth rider”. I don’t really know how to be light to I bang about everything that’s on my way (I incidentally bent 3 cranks from bashing into stuff..)
An epoxy/graphite laminate is not as fragile as some people might think!

 

[Mani_UT]

Some people have managed to crack those tabs by over torqueing them without washers, or if you case something it helps distribute the stress better too. The insurance is worth the extra 5g.

Duuuude! It's 5 g!! Do you know how much faster I go if I loose these 5 g??
Actually I just think they are ugly. If I break my e13 ring I won't cry.
I'll know I have been a dumbass and I'll go buy a new one

 

[MichaelT]

Its a mechanical device, there ALWAYS can be failures. I've seen e13 guides drop chains before. .

To my knowledge, I do not know a single pro e.thirteen sponsored rider who has lost a chain when running a properly set up device.

I have seen incorrectly set up e.thirteen chain guides drop a chain once in a while. I have also seen numerous incorreclty set up e.thirteen chain guides run for seasons at a time with no chain drops.

That experience is from getting my hands dirty at local, national and international gravity events and street comps in the e.thirteen pit where e.thirteen has provided tech support for amatuers and pro riders for the past two seasons.

Thanks for listening. As for the weight question - I believe there are resources that were already posted.

Michael

e.thirteen / Evil

 

[dw]

Thats the bootom line isn't it? If it works as it's supposed to do it's all good. However Dave, I was interested in using one of your guides on my Armageddon several months ago and sent you an email several months ago and never got a reply You made mention of making an adaptor that would work on a Karpiel without using a 128mm BB. Well?

Hell yeah it is, no doubt about it!
I bet the new ISCG05 setup would fit your army actually. Why dont you drop me another e-mail, I dont remember it, but that was a long ass time ago, I get over 100 a day, so they pile up quick! Ill see if I can get an ISCG05 sample sent out to you for test fit

Dave

 

[dw]

Duuuude! It's 5 g!! Do you know how much faster I go if I loose these 5 g??
Actually I just think they are ugly. If I break my e13 ring I won't cry.
I'll know I have been a dumbass and I'll go buy a new one

I really tried to have large head chainring bolts forged, but my forger said it was impossible. I still dont believe them. Im going to try again, or switch to a new forging company!

dw

 

[ssaddict]

Actually I run these chain guides on my cuervo.. No problems so far.
And I am not exactly a “smooth rider”. I don’t really know how to be light to I bang about everything that’s on my way (I incidentally bent 3 cranks from bashing into stuff..)
An epoxy/graphite laminate is not as fragile as some people might think!

Be honest though, if your running this guide, what spider and crank is it attached to?


That's cool, though, I'm suprised you've had such good luck, but your right it is all in the layup. The two other carbon guides I've seen are a little less durable. But I think most people just use standard uni-carbon with no special layup.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

I really tried to have large head chainring bolts forged, but my forger said it was impossible. I still dont believe them. Im going to try again, or switch to a new forging company!

dw

OK Dave, email sent.

 

[Mani_UT]

Be honest though, if your running this guide, what spider and crank is it attached to?

I have been using Saint for about 5 month since I got sick of bending Vdrives. These saints rocks. and they are a perfect match to my blingy creation

Oh and the lay-up in nothing special (plain quasi-isotropic) but it is however a very high quality laminate (I'd charge a customer 2000$+ for an 18" x 18" plate with the materials and process I use, the only way I can do it is because I use left over materials once a "real" project is over)

I actually want to try another resin (Cytec PR520) a very very tough system but it is ... pink I am not too sure about that

 

[ssaddict]

Wanna send me some scraps?

 

[ssaddict]

Thanks to my own damn morbid curosity here are some of the weights for you

e13 Supercharger 40t - 267g
hardware for 4 bolt - 43g

icgs adapter plate - 40g

e13 SRS boomerang and guides - 258g

e13 STS boomerang and guides - 246g

e13 DRS system - 158g

(my digital scale may be off a little, its been thrown around)

 

[kdog-rider]

If your looking for a light guild check out Gamut USA
www.gamutusa.com
only 245g for the whole guild

 

[sama1ter]

I already have the sys2 on my hardtail, but the metal scraping, dings, ect are bugging me when i ride urban. I want to get an e13, but i always thought htey were alot heavier, i might just go out and get an sts, is it possible to order them with a black bash instead of clear?