[66]

I just got back from another wonderful race weekend. But there is a bad taste lingering in my mouth.

This weekend seemed to be filled with the usual (for the WIM races) amount of close-minded, bigoted derogatory insults. I feel that each of the people that I know personally and associate with in the bike and race scene are probably good people. I’m sure that none of them would actually want to be considered discriminating. I also have to assume most of the other people at the races are good people too. But every time I go to a WIM race, I feel like I’m in a different time. I heard countless homophobic, sexist, racist and the like, comments this weekend. It’s disgusting!

I think that most of you Monkeys that are reading this are in a more “role model” position so I would like to ask that you help in making an effort to keep the races more comfortable for the non straight white males or people that are uncomfortable around the discriminating comments.

Thank you for listening and please let me know how you feel about this topic.

Also, Good job to everyone (for the racing part) this weekend.

Matt

 

[Big E]

ya know it isnt a good thing when people say stuff like that. but i wont lie cause i have said plenty of stupid bull**** like that just for a laugh. and i mean you cant really tell people to keep a race clean. i mean it's a race filled with a bunch of DownHillers. and thats just how alot of them are. and alot of us joke like that. but i dont think anyone trys to offend somone. we just find it funny. but i myself have cut back on the jokes and just smoke more pot when i am at races. so hey man take it easy.

 

[RhinofromWA]

I guess I am not as intuned at the races.....I don't hear alot of what you have mentioned. Unless it is a friend joking around with his friends....I guess I hear some.

I called Lumberjacks son a sh!t head. His dad calls him sh!t Weasle....but it is done in love....that little kid gives it right back.

I found myself catching swear words coming out of my mouth when I am around little kids....I try to curb that at all times out there....but I often slip...normally in conversation and not because I just drove my knuckle into my cassette while changing a tire. I can normally catch those. I didn't even swear when I threw my chain after the road gap....unless damnit counts. : lol

If I am an offender I need to know. You can let it be known here or PM me. As I tell my fiance, unless you tell me I am being a jerk....I will probably just keep on doing what I am doing....

RhinofromWA
Big fat guy riding a White Rotec DH with his bike making a big Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr thru the grass field on his first run. : dang chain suck/dropped chain fiasco.

 

[evilbob]

Guilty like many but not the worst. We should all pay attention to who is around. However keep in mind that racing in general is kind of a stressfull way to release stress. Kind of a stress overdose that puts you over the edge into calmness. With that there are also stress relievers that share in the process of this type of recreation and one of them is humor. Every one has a different way with humor. It also plays a critical part in team and social camaraderie. Yes some of it should be toned down and yes most people at the races are very good people inspite of what you may here them say in jest or anger/frustration. My suggetion if you want to race is not to fight with this but to grow some thicker skin, sort of keep your emotional body armor on. Sometime a good dose of humorus insults/slander in jest is like a good fall you can walk away from. Take it, get up, dust off, see what you learned that you can use later if you can, laugh at it if you can but most of all learn to walk away and not dwell on it. Sorry if this dosen't sit well with your perspective, but I have been around racing (different types) for 40 years and this is the perspective I have learned to except. Most humans inspite of what they say mean well. Remember that, the world for the most part is not candy coated. :evil:

 

[66]

Evilbob- I understand what you are saying and appreciate your input. I personally work well with pressures from being put down. But I don’t believe that it s a method of motivation that works for everyone. And I don’t think it is fare to assume that all people work through this motivation. It’s not a mater of what happens in testosterone driven racing, it’s a matter of tolerance and understanding and consideration of others. I think humor should never go away. I believe it is one of the greatest joys in life as well as an excellent source of stress relief. But if your enjoyment/ stress relief is at the expense of others comfort, sense of self worth, is it right?

I don’t believe that calling your friend sh!t weasel or using foul language is ethically wrong. That’s not what I’m talking about.

In example, on a shuttle ride, telling your friend he rides like a girl. What does that do to the girl standing next to you? Maybe she is uncomfortable about riding with all the guys anyway. Now you are making fun of the way girls ride? I don’t think the intension was to put women down, but that’s what happened.

I do believe that human will is good will. But I believe that people’s insecurity and need for acceptance causes trouble. I think we need to demand higher standards. 40 years ago society was a little different. I think the improvements made as far as equal rights have been forward and in general good improvements. The races are not a pocket away from the rest of the social world where it is ok to forget other people concerns and rights. I love racing. I love riding. Maybe others that would not come to the races because of the uncomfortable atmosphere would be able to enjoy it as well. I’m not so uncomfortable that I don’t come. But I’m a “straight white male”. But maybe if I was a female or maybe if I was gay, maybe those comments are more piercing to my “thick skin”.

 

[Snacks]

In example, on a shuttle ride, telling your friend he rides like a girl. What does that do to the girl standing next to you? Maybe she is uncomfortable about riding with all the guys anyway. Now you are making fun of the way girls ride? I don’t think the intension was to put women down, but that’s what happened.

Good point Matt, I hate that comment, and I don't even race.

As women we are trying to fit into a 'mans world'. It's hard enough finding gear that fits us let alone riding with a bunch of men 90% percent of time. I can't tell you how it feels when your one girl in a group of men riding and having them wait for you at the trail crossings or at the bottom of 38.

Luckily, there are a good group of men in the PNW that treat the women that ride like ladies. They encourage us to ride at our ability, give us advice, help with flats, and other mechanical issues, but most of all to go out and have a good time.

 

[Velocity Girl]

For me I think it all depends on who the comment comes from and the tone/context of the comment. The teasing of "you ride like girl" very seldom bothers me....heck, I've even been known to throw that one out there from time to time! I think most of the guys at the WIM races respect the women out there competiting, regardless of their ability level, so I personally have never really felt uncomfortable (although there are always exceptions to the rule). But I do see your, and Snacks, point that some women might not appreciate such comments. Heck, next time it happens just bust out with a "If riding like a girl means being able to ride like Missy Giove or Marla Streb, I'll take it any day of the week!!!"

 

[toughguymagee]

My suggetion if you want to race is not to fight with this but to grow some thicker skin, sort of keep your emotional body armor on.

What about the kids who are around...are they supposed to grow thicker skin and brush it off? Someone can cuss to no end around me and I know they are simply ignorant but if my nephews, who were at the race, are listening to foul mouthed people, what does that teach them? I would think as adults people could use a bit of self control with the language they use. I know there are times when we 'slip' and that happens, but when someone does not have the common decency to observe there are other people, young or old, besides themselves at a venue, that's just stupid.

 

[edinSvenson2]

Making a big deal out of a little deal?

 

[66]

Is equal rights a "little deal"?

 

[evilbob]

Wow this is sort of political.......hhmmmm.
1)66 I see what your saying and Snacks I can totally relate to some of the frustrating things people say. The ride like a girl comments I can certainly see how that strikes a nerve. How about "rides like an oldman" or "that fat old bald guy", yup that would be me. Does it hurt sometimes, yea but I'm too busy riding or doing things I like to worry about it much. Plus I keep it in mind that eventually those people that say those things for the most part will get older, fatter, and some may start loosing there hair too . Eventually most will just give up what they are doing when they make those comments. Many many smart mouth mid teen to mid twenty riders, not as many fat bald old guys, I consider myself unique and in an elite group of people. Like wise the Ladies out there who ride I sympathize with you on the group ride with a bunch of guys thing and at times probably am guilty of being or seeming to be at times inconsiderate, I try not tobe. I also have and I believe most of the racer guys how have matured enough to understand have more respect for women who challenge themselves than most of them will addmit regardless what thoughtlessly gets said. I also enjoy watching the looks on those with comments when one of these elite ladies or some fat old balding guy shuts them up by doing what the comments suggest they can't, ha the world is full of suprises.

2)Yes I am guilty of slipping not as bad as some bad still. However do not assume that protecting their tender little ears from the world is going to make it right and that others are willing to bow to your plan and/or beliefs. While I agree that some discretion is needed and required. If you pretend or encourage the illusion the world is candy coated then you probably will be settind up for some culture shock when the young protected mind finally has the real world thrust on it with no measure of social protection. Also keep in mind that while we would all like to protect and slowly expose the developing individual to the world as it is, the rest of the world is not on the same pace or developement plan as you, and life as it is day to day rarely apologizes for it's pace or inconveniences, ready or not.

3)I do agree that we could all do better I just don't agree that we have the right to expect it from everyone else. After all we are talking about communication, self expression and the right to free speech. This is the last I will post in this thread as this is truely political. Please do not take this as an opportunity to belittle me for my perspective, experiences or opinion as they are mine and are not entended to deliberately hurt, injure or insult others and I would appreciate the same consideration in return. I will do my part to be better (successful or not) and would encourage others to do the same (successfull or not).

 

[66]

I think being considerate for the differences between all humans is different then candy coating anything. I don’t believe in censorship. I believe that the tragedies of the world will present themselves to the impressionable easy enough. The world is how it is but it is changeable through efforts as small as expressions of compassion. I have much compassion for my fellow racers. I also have high expectations for the society we all live in. I don’t want to stand by when I have the opportunity to motivate others in a positive direction.



Evilbob- I’m not interested in putting you down. I am a strong believer in the freedom of speech. I think you have expressed your interest in our common goal. That is what I’m asking; that we all do our part in moving forward, not backward. The next step is walking the walk.

 

[Tacoma Lad]

I think that instead of writing it on this forum you may need to tell people that it truly is offensive to you and do it in a nice way. I am not a PC person my self but if someone calls me on it in a nice way then I take notice and change. But at the same time dont go looking to corect people if you dont hear it does it really offend you does it?

 

[66]

But at the same time dont go looking to corect people if you dont hear it does it really offend you does it?

I dont' understand your question. Are you saying don't ask for people to change if I'm not offended?

 

[oly]

This F#@$ing thread is F#@$ing F%^@ed....


Opps, sorry.......

I do try to mind my foul mouth when im around people i dont know very well (and kids...), but when im comfortable with someone im sure i let too many curse words fly......

 

[toughguymagee]

I do try to mind my foul mouth when im around people i dont know very well (and kids...), but when im comfortable with someone im sure i let too many curse words fly......

See that's all good. You are conscious about the people around you...its not a hard thing to do.

 

[MUTOLI]

First remark: I was up top preparing for my run. There was a group of young kids...under 10 that were talking to each other (also waiting to race). At first I didn't pay much attention, then I actually hurd some of there comments and remarks....I was completely shocked from the stuff that was coming out of there mouths. Holy Sh!t, kiss my ~ss, what the hell etc. I wanted to say something and then I realized I am not there parent and it may not be my place. I am the first to admit that I may say some stuff that kids or adults for that matter shouldn't have to hear...but I do try to make sure I watch my mouth around kids or someone I don't know. I agree that riders/anyone should watch what they say so they don't affend people. However...the kids in this case were almost as bad as the adults....

Second remark: At all the races I have been to I have always enjoyed the atmosphere. It's one of the reasons I started racing. I have meet some awesome people through the racing sceen. I must say from a girls prospective....I am very lucky. I broke my bike this weekend and I can't even count how many guys were trying to help me out as my husband wasn't at the race. I want to say Thank you for making me feel welcome at the races and helping me with my problem. I ended up racing and got 1st place too! If it weren't for the guys there, I would have just put my bike in the back of the truck and watched! Thanks again! :love:

 

[RhinofromWA]

I dont' understand your question. Are you saying don't ask for people to change if I'm not offended?

I think he was trying to say addressing the offenders at the moment would be more beneficial.

Call them on it at the moment....in a polite way. No reason to gets anymore peoples cackles up.

It is not easy to address someone in a respectfull manner when they are acting in a way like you described. Manytimes things don't bug me until much later in the day or weekend. Yet, it seems you are intune with how to react....the focus should be who and when.

I think he said, ultimately...how will people know to change if you don't voice your opinion. They don't know they are being that big of a jerk until you let them know.

Just my take on it.....like I made anymore sense

 

[SebringMGB]

on the flip side.... My mom drove up sunday to watch the race, as she has never seen a DH event, or dh riding for that matter. and all she could talk about is how friendly, curtious and personable everyone was. and I agree. Ive played many sports. Snowboard, skaetboard, hockey, skiing, inline. and bikers by far and away are the easiest to get along with. there isnt much in the way of antagonism towards competitors, the riders come from a broad spectrum up lifestyles, and they are almost always friendly. yes there are exceptions, but for the most part, bikers are the last people Id expect a thread like this to be about. and i dint catch any of the fould air 66 is talking about. Probably the only thing that pops into my mind is the way some people treat their bikes after a bad run or mechanical failure.

 

[Lumberjack]

Sorry if my potty mouth has offended any body. I'm an old oil field worker and still haven't been able to fit in to this pc state. Me and **** Weasle are staying out of this one.

 

[66]

I think much of my point was missed. I was not saying that I give a sh!t about saying f*ck or any other common English “curse word”. But imagine if your wife was Mexican in origin and you got to hear about wetbacks in the shuttle or if your mom was gay and spent the weekend around people using that as an insult. Maybe that would give someone complexes. Maybe there is a 11 year old boy, who would be looking up to many of us, and heard one of us say.... oil miners are all pigs (again for the record I am NOT saying that). What would that do to his image of his dad that happened to be an oil minor? Or lets even step back a couple years and imagine someone was talking about how ni**ers drink too much orange soda and only each watermelon. I know that would make me flip off the wall.

For the record I would like to say that I love the atmosphere and riding will all you monkeys. I understand that there are other groups of people that would be less considerate. But I have high expectations for the organizations that I devote so much of my time and effort too.

? come on. Making fun of me isn't going to solve too much. Maybe you are ashamed of something? If you would like to talk about this topic in private, you are more then welcome. PM me and I will give you my home phone or we can meet in person. I don't have anything to hide. I'm not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing. And i'm not one to complain for petty things. But I will say something if I feel it is what the right thing to do.

I'm going to let this fade for now. But I ask that everyone be considerate for the differences

 

[Earthmover]

I've been dealing with this subject at work, too. I'm a ditch digger, and work with a bunch of ditch diggers. I think pretty much anything remotely offensive has either been done or discussed there in the past. However, this is one of the more PC states, and therefore, there's plenty of legislation back 66 on this one. I've had to become EXTREMELY focused on the sh!t that comes out of my mouth lately (to avoid becoming an un-employed ditch digger), and it's suprising what you start hearing when you really listen to those around you. I don't think anybody's asking us to start policing those around us at the races, just consider those around you. It's really not that big of a deal.

 

[RhinofromWA]

I've been dealing with this subject at work, too. I'm a ditch digger, and work with a bunch of ditch diggers. I think pretty much anything remotely offensive has either been done or discussed there in the past. However, this is one of the more PC states, and therefore, there's plenty of legislation back 66 on this one. I've had to become EXTREMELY focused on the sh!t that comes out of my mouth lately (to avoid becoming an un-employed ditch digger), and it's suprising what you start hearing when you really listen to those around you. I don't think anybody's asking us to start policing those around us at the races, just consider those around you. It's really not that big of a deal.

I agree be considerate.

But I think it is a two way street....how accepting of people who make off color remarks are you if you attack them? How are you accepting their differences? Not saying it is right.

As far as legislation goes....that is in the work place and not the race parking lot or shuttle lines.

Simple consideration on everybodies part will make alot of this tension go a way.

Ditch digging must get pretty graphic.

I'd say to ask the offenders at the time to refrain from using that sudject matter....that is the most you can do. If you press than the situation can ebcome much worst than it ever was....maybe they just need a fresh look (outside their little group) at what they are really saying. If they continue to use it then I suggest that you stay away from said people when possible.

I am against much of the PC stuff that flows thru people now a days. That sounds bad but I feal that simple consideration is worth more than any PC policing. I try and shelter young'ns more than other adults around me.

I am on the fence here....because I don't like the water on either side of the extremes...PC or Azzholes...maybe that is the best place to be? I make my jokes around friends....but never in anger. I can't remember the last time the N-word ever came out of my mouth, unless discussing the use of the word. It is all said in jest but I feal most of our kidding is not to the extremes you are angry about. There is a difference...if there isn't for you than you do need a thicker skin. I have told friends when they have used teh N-word to use something else...that word don't fly with me.

We all have different comfort levels, I jsut haven't seen the problem as being an issue at the races. Maybe I was in the cleaner side of the parking lot?

 

[toughguymagee]

I don't think anybody's asking us to start policing those around us at the races, just consider those around you. It's really not that big of a deal.

werd

 

[toughguymagee]

Sorry if my potty mouth has offended any body. I'm an old oil field worker and still haven't been able to fit in to this pc state. Me and **** Weasle are staying out of this one.

Potty Mouth Scott!

 

[Jewels]

Oly was helpin me get my bike into the truck once at Chelan and he was holdin the front part of my seat for what seemed like an eternity..?? WIM races would be 1000 times better if everyone was sh!tfaced..Bring back KR series in a hurry damnit!

 

[Chuckwagon]

As far as legislation goes....that is in the work place and not the race parking lot or shuttle lines.
?

Actually, a person could be found lible for discriminating behavior, if the behavior was preventing the fair participation of those being discriminated against.

Continuous ridicule would definately apply. Not so sure about overheard comments, but possible.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Actually, a person could be found lible for discriminating behavior, if the behavior was preventing the fair participation of those being discriminated against.

Continuous ridicule would definately apply. Not so sure about overheard comments, but possible.

Still sounds like a stretch....especially at a DH race. Must be just me.

If haters were threatening and kicking the hatee's out of the parking lot or race I can see it. But "no class" comments made not directed at the offended party would be a large jump.

I am only discussion the reach of liability at a DH race. Not whether it is right to do so....because it is not right.