Ha....those crazy brits...didn't even notice that. I guess I'm too sheltered by the FCC...
women in combat
- Thread starter $tinkle
- Start date
oh yeah, what were we on about?
The Case Against Women in Combat
The Case Against Women in Combat
and then this: http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/njmassac/rape.htm (graphic images possibly NSFW)
Are you serious? Seriously? Well, I’m being serious. You’re a moron. Have you done a lot of patrols around Baghdad with women? Serve a lot of time in a mixed-gender unit? As a male, tried to search a female Iraqi?
A) Not every pilot is 220 lbs, and an EP3 Orion pilot isn’t exactly a fighter pilot. I would like to see what his 220 lbs consisted of. From a medical standpoint there is no difference in the muscle fiber between men and women. There are some weak-ass male Soldiers out there who have a hard time humping around their gear. After a few months, your legs get very strong. That applies to females too.
B) That is BuII****. Been to a lot of PTSD support groups? I have. More men, and the males have a harder time of dealing with it.
C) That is BuII****.
D) Give me a break.
I’ll tell you what, come on over here and I will introduce to some of the best officers that I know, who are female. After they beat the **** out of you, show you how professional and dedicated they are, and that their Soldiers would follow them to hell and back, then you can come on here and bad-mouth them. Because they actually volunteered to serve their country, and you haven’t (though you reap the benefits of your citizenship), I will put you in touch with them, and you can tell them why they aren’t fit for combat and why you can post stuff about them while knowing nothing.
A) Not every pilot is 220 lbs, and an EP3 Orion pilot isn’t exactly a fighter pilot. I would like to see what his 220 lbs consisted of. From a medical standpoint there is no difference in the muscle fiber between men and women. There are some weak-ass male Soldiers out there who have a hard time humping around their gear. After a few months, your legs get very strong. That applies to females too.
B) That is BuII****. Been to a lot of PTSD support groups? I have. More men, and the males have a harder time of dealing with it.
C) That is BuII****.
D) Give me a break.
I’ll tell you what, come on over here and I will introduce to some of the best officers that I know, who are female. After they beat the **** out of you, show you how professional and dedicated they are, and that their Soldiers would follow them to hell and back, then you can come on here and bad-mouth them. Because they actually volunteered to serve their country, and you haven’t (though you reap the benefits of your citizenship), I will put you in touch with them, and you can tell them why they aren’t fit for combat and why you can post stuff about them while knowing nothing.
is that you, john wayne?
i wouldn't call that number "a lot", but i've seen it on CNN
how many women went into the '04 battle of fallujah in to clear out the rats' nest? of these, how many were "door knockers"? i suspect disproportionately few, which if true, would speak to the confidence from the leadership in females in true offensive combat situations, not just greeting passersby with "as-salamu alaikum" in the market. i also suspect leadership among strike teams is a little out of proportion. if i'm wrong in my assumptions (which are based upon the last few years reading blogs, talking to people who have served, media interviews, etc.), please convince me otherwise. alternatively, you can call me an ass, or some other flavor of the day.
wtf does this mean? if he's "less of a man" (i assume you're calling him a tiptoe-through-the-tulips fatass), how exactly does that make a woman look by comparison? is the strongest woman equal to an avg man? is this the standard?
are the fitness standards the same for male & female?
i don't doubt this one bit. in most mtb races i've done, both short track & endurance, i've been passed & beaten by women. so please don't think i'm saying there's an imaginary line along the strength continuum whereby the weakest man is on one side, and the strongest woman on the other. i hope we can recognize the sexes aren't equal, yet there's significant overlap of performers when rank-ordered by capability, performance, and potential. once this is determined, it's not a stretch to see the draw to accepting (or even courting) females to a combat role.
is this your "leave britney alone" speech?
Terminology:
- “Door knocker” I think you mean “Door Kicker”
- “Strike Team” this means nothing to anyone, except someone who has seen to many war movies and thinks that is what it is like.
Your definition of “Combat”
- You imply that combat means kicking in doors. I would argue that anyone who leaves the wire is in a combat situation. Combat doesn’t mean going house to house. Try telling that to someone who has been involved in an IED strike or complex ambush while on convoy operations. No door kicking there. Just recovery operations. What about bases that are hit with indirect fire (IDF) such as mortars, rockets or artillery. No door kicking there either. Is that not combat? Please, enlighten me, an Infantry Officer (Infantry is an all male branch by the way) with two tours and is someone who has been through all of those events, what can I tell myself is, in fact, combat.
Fallujah
- I will agree that the majority of the Soldiers doing clearing operations were male, however who do you think were sustaining casualties while transporting supplies, conducting retaining operations, presence patrols, interrogations, etc. MP, Transportation, Civil Affairs, PYSOPS, Engineer and Quartermaster platoons and companies operate consistently outside the wire under the command of female platoon leaders and company commanders. MPs and Engineers, in particular, conduct operations identical to infantry units, such and clearing operations. And statistically, convoys and other ‘soft targets’ are hit more than infantry or armor platoons. Why, because if you were a bad guy, which one would you rather go after. It must because one has more females in it. They can smell the estrogen and that means an easy target I guess.
“…the sexes aren’t equal…”
- I hope you have more to back this up than the shoddy evidence you present here. They are equal, just different. Read Pierce Howard’s ‘The Owner’s Manual for the Brain, 2006” for a better account of things females do better than males. For starters they have better sensory awareness, better fine-motor skills, better night vision, wider peripheral vision, have better visual memory and are slower to anger.
“Leave Britney alone”
No, that is my keep your mouth shut about things you don't know about speech. Compiling a list of media, that have similar trains of thought, and then thinking you can speak as an expert makes you the moron.
Your statements have no credibility based on the fact you are taking second hands reports and regurgitating them.
Let me break this down for you:
Your position: Women have no place in combat. Women are inferior to men.
My position: I’ll believe you when you come over here and actually interact with the females we have serving over here. Then you can come back here and talk trash about how females suck all you want.
- “Door knocker” I think you mean “Door Kicker”
- “Strike Team” this means nothing to anyone, except someone who has seen to many war movies and thinks that is what it is like.
Your definition of “Combat”
- You imply that combat means kicking in doors. I would argue that anyone who leaves the wire is in a combat situation. Combat doesn’t mean going house to house. Try telling that to someone who has been involved in an IED strike or complex ambush while on convoy operations. No door kicking there. Just recovery operations. What about bases that are hit with indirect fire (IDF) such as mortars, rockets or artillery. No door kicking there either. Is that not combat? Please, enlighten me, an Infantry Officer (Infantry is an all male branch by the way) with two tours and is someone who has been through all of those events, what can I tell myself is, in fact, combat.
Fallujah
- I will agree that the majority of the Soldiers doing clearing operations were male, however who do you think were sustaining casualties while transporting supplies, conducting retaining operations, presence patrols, interrogations, etc. MP, Transportation, Civil Affairs, PYSOPS, Engineer and Quartermaster platoons and companies operate consistently outside the wire under the command of female platoon leaders and company commanders. MPs and Engineers, in particular, conduct operations identical to infantry units, such and clearing operations. And statistically, convoys and other ‘soft targets’ are hit more than infantry or armor platoons. Why, because if you were a bad guy, which one would you rather go after. It must because one has more females in it. They can smell the estrogen and that means an easy target I guess.
“…the sexes aren’t equal…”
- I hope you have more to back this up than the shoddy evidence you present here. They are equal, just different. Read Pierce Howard’s ‘The Owner’s Manual for the Brain, 2006” for a better account of things females do better than males. For starters they have better sensory awareness, better fine-motor skills, better night vision, wider peripheral vision, have better visual memory and are slower to anger.
“Leave Britney alone”
No, that is my keep your mouth shut about things you don't know about speech. Compiling a list of media, that have similar trains of thought, and then thinking you can speak as an expert makes you the moron.
Your statements have no credibility based on the fact you are taking second hands reports and regurgitating them.
Let me break this down for you:
Your position: Women have no place in combat. Women are inferior to men.
My position: I’ll believe you when you come over here and actually interact with the females we have serving over here. Then you can come back here and talk trash about how females suck all you want.
oh great...who's the genius that brought this thread back
thanks for getting terms straightened out. as you well know from your current work environment, communication is key. pity you get all snively w/ me. but i reckon if i believed what you say i said (instead of reading my words) i'd get wadded up, too.
which do you think would happen first: the draft, or female proportionality among all strata of combat roles?
no, this just one aspect, one scenario, one variety, as you've pointed out. to make the leap that i used an equal sign when addressing one example is lazy. i used the example of a small offensive unit to bring into question why they are always male. if females are every bit as effective as males, why do our leaders insist on the status quo? you seem very fired up to the plight of the combat-ready woman. are you willing to put your career (and some would also add "your life") at risk by seeking to represent elite teams proportionately?
which do you think would happen first: the draft, or female proportionality among all strata of combat roles?
don't tell me you buy into this "propaganda", too!
as fun as it would be to bloody you up with this, i'll go ahead and make the leap that you believe the sexes are complimentary - the male making up for what the female lacks & vice versa. if true, again i bring you back to why don't we have equal representation among all strata of combat roles? wouldn't that make the most effective fighting team?
i would bet a month's pay you wouldn't say that if we agreed with one another
i never made these black & white statements, but did draw out compelling points from the newsweek interview. you can reasonably infer them to be appealing to me, and at the same time i can recognize the validity of your points (once i peel away the tampon-slinging cuntiness, of course). i'd like to discuss this, but am prepared to fling poo with the best of them
if i did, that would be the first time. did you even read that part about me admitting getting pwnd race-after-race?
Geez, $tinkle, if you are getting all your information from CNN then God help you.
"Soft targets" are propaganda?! You can't be serious! How many people have YOU served with who were blown up on a convoy delivering water, food, etc. to a FOB or even to the locals?! Insurgents don't really care who they hit; infidel is infidel to them and guess what? We're ALL infidels in their eyes, yes even if you are Muslim American. They don't know the difference and it's not like we parade around with our religious affiliation on our chests anyway. But they are "smart" enough to realize that if a logistics patrol is moving down an MSR and there's nobody in the turret, they run a low(er) risk of getting killed. Then again they're chicken ****s who don't follow any sort of doctrine or play by any war rules so IEDs are still the most common way to get killed. Marin knows what he's talking about first-hand.
FYI body standards are different for every PERSON in the military because of the ratio of muscle-fat-body shape, etc. If you bust weight you are taped. However, the actual mathematical ratio is the same, considering women BY THE LAW OF NATURE TYPICALLY have more fat deposits than men.
I'm just curious. No judgment. What is it you do for a living? Thanks.
"Soft targets" are propaganda?! You can't be serious! How many people have YOU served with who were blown up on a convoy delivering water, food, etc. to a FOB or even to the locals?! Insurgents don't really care who they hit; infidel is infidel to them and guess what? We're ALL infidels in their eyes, yes even if you are Muslim American. They don't know the difference and it's not like we parade around with our religious affiliation on our chests anyway. But they are "smart" enough to realize that if a logistics patrol is moving down an MSR and there's nobody in the turret, they run a low(er) risk of getting killed. Then again they're chicken ****s who don't follow any sort of doctrine or play by any war rules so IEDs are still the most common way to get killed. Marin knows what he's talking about first-hand.
FYI body standards are different for every PERSON in the military because of the ratio of muscle-fat-body shape, etc. If you bust weight you are taped. However, the actual mathematical ratio is the same, considering women BY THE LAW OF NATURE TYPICALLY have more fat deposits than men.
I'm just curious. No judgment. What is it you do for a living? Thanks.
I'm bumping this in hopes of luring OMFG back.
It's working for me right now.
Also quite topical. And ass-kicking.
CAMP SALERNO, Afghanistan -- A 19-year-old medic from Texas will become the first woman in Afghanistan -- and only the second female soldier since World War II -- to receive the Silver Star, the nation's third-highest medal for valor.
Army Spec. Monica Lin Brown saved the lives of fellow soldiers after a roadside bomb tore through a convoy of Humvees in Paktia province in April 2007, the military said.
After the explosion, which wounded five soldiers in her unit, Brown ran through insurgent gunfire and used her body to shield wounded comrades as mortars fell less than 100 yards away, the military said.
"I did not really think about anything except for getting the guys to a safer location and getting them taken care of and getting them out of there," Brown said Saturday at a U.S. base in the eastern province of Khost.
Brown of Lake Jackson, Texas, is to receive the award later this month. She is a member of the 4th Squadron, 73rd Cavalry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team.
Four Army nurses in World War II were the first women to receive the Silver Star, according to the Army's Web site.
Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester of Nashville, Tenn., received the Silver Star in 2005 for gallantry during an insurgent ambush on a convoy in Iraq.
Two men from her unit, the 617th Military Police Company of Richmond, Ky., also received the Silver Star for their roles in that action.
CAMP SALERNO, Afghanistan -- A 19-year-old medic from Texas will become the first woman in Afghanistan -- and only the second female soldier since World War II -- to receive the Silver Star, the nation's third-highest medal for valor.
Army Spec. Monica Lin Brown saved the lives of fellow soldiers after a roadside bomb tore through a convoy of Humvees in Paktia province in April 2007, the military said.
After the explosion, which wounded five soldiers in her unit, Brown ran through insurgent gunfire and used her body to shield wounded comrades as mortars fell less than 100 yards away, the military said.
"I did not really think about anything except for getting the guys to a safer location and getting them taken care of and getting them out of there," Brown said Saturday at a U.S. base in the eastern province of Khost.
Brown of Lake Jackson, Texas, is to receive the award later this month. She is a member of the 4th Squadron, 73rd Cavalry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team.
Four Army nurses in World War II were the first women to receive the Silver Star, according to the Army's Web site.
Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester of Nashville, Tenn., received the Silver Star in 2005 for gallantry during an insurgent ambush on a convoy in Iraq.
Two men from her unit, the 617th Military Police Company of Richmond, Ky., also received the Silver Star for their roles in that action.
Mud girl, I couldn't agree with you more! I mean EVERYone knows, all the best chefs in the world are men! :biggrin:
All jokes aside, I love your avatar.
I do however believe that most men would be distracted by a good looking girl and that could lead to being killed. I've seen girls in uniform come through the airport and some are like WOW! I know I couldn't concentrate with them next to me. But that's okay, if women want to fight, I say send'em all to the front line and us guys can put on an apron and tailgate back at the camp cooking up dogs and burgers and watchin a ball game! You want cheese on your burger when you get back?
MizN 8's daughter is in Taji, Iraq now... beginning 12-15 month deployment.
Hope she returns safely N8.
yep as do we.
I tried to get her to join the Navy or the Air Force (since it's almost like being in the military) but noooo... she wanted the Army.
Ah well, I'm sure she will do just fine.
Well that's not like combat or anything.
What's she doing?
What's she doing?
She's a PFC and a fuel truck driver/operator in a transportation unit actually...
making runs from Taji to the field and back.
doesnt sound like fun to me
making runs from Taji to the field and back.
doesnt sound like fun to me
thx... i'm sure she'll be ok.. they have been drilling for months for their mission
My first time sticking my head in this room.
I don't like the idea of women serving in battle.
But this is purely in a sexist old-fashioned notion of wanting to protect our women. I am fairly sexist in a way: I love the old fashioned notions of bygone eras where we opened doors and pulled out chairs; treating a lady right and noswearingaroundthem thankyouverymuch; working to support the family and fighting to protect them.
It's not the same as me not wanting (yucky) girls to be able join my boy scouts group.
I don't like the idea of women serving in battle.
But this is purely in a sexist old-fashioned notion of wanting to protect our women. I am fairly sexist in a way: I love the old fashioned notions of bygone eras where we opened doors and pulled out chairs; treating a lady right and noswearingaroundthem thankyouverymuch; working to support the family and fighting to protect them.
It's not the same as me not wanting (yucky) girls to be able join my boy scouts group.
Awww....
you're so romantic!
you're so romantic!
New Geneva convention. Only allowable weapons: pillows and baby oil. Only combatents: women 18-28 years old. Tickle torture acceptable.
two words, Jessica Lynch.
i didnt feel like searching through all the pages, but thanks
So hawt...
Pvt Lynch was the greatest media creation of this "war" so far. Joke, 1 ea.
i just saw a tv special about her. she did become surprisingly hot. back when it happened.....eh not so much
strapped onto a stripped wet bed frame while hooked up to 840 cold cranking amps doesn't do it for you?
yeah, hecka gay.
Actually, I was referring the the 'surprisingly hot' current state. I probably saw the same documentary and well..... dumbfvck west virginia redneck with a boycut just don't do it for me.
But then again I'm not a lesbian. On second thought.....I am wearing a flannel shirt right now.
But then again I'm not a lesbian. On second thought.....I am wearing a flannel shirt right now.
told you so:
With DADT repealed, allowing women in combat may become next military social policy debate
#negrodamus
With DADT repealed, allowing women in combat may become next military social policy debate
#negrodamus
