[Tattooo]

Went up to the shoe with noname and WSU DH'er this weekend, and I have to say after how we were treated on Saturday it will be the last time we ever spend money there.

The DH was cool, but when they decided to kill the DS on Saturday, the original response was "NO REFUNDS!" I add caps to show just how asshat the events guys there were.

Two dickweeds come to mind as to why I won't be going back...

First there was Traven (I think that's his name) who was the Race Manager for the weekend. He chose to kill the DS because "its too wet and there's erosion on the course." We were fine with this, though the Sea Otter was run in much worse conditions this year, but we wanted our money back. We had driven 8 hours in the rain, had wasted money on the hotel room, all of that, so we didn't feel like letting Snowshoe "liberate" $15 more of our money. We were told that we could have our fees extended for the next race, which for two of three of us was not an option. While we tried to explain this in a calm, rational manner, Traven just walked away when we told him that pushing our fees to the next race was unacceptable.

Second was the "Event Manager" Jason. When asked for our money back for the DS, he got really combative telling me how "there isn't a venue in the country that would give you your money back" and then attempting to explain law to me. He decided that since we signed a "waiver" that there was no contract for a race, and that we could go stick our thumbs up our collective asses. When we asked to speak again to Traven he refused to come speak to us. Nice way to run a race!

We finally had to go make a lot of bad noise down at the customer service center. After explaining to the very nice girl at the center, Desiree, that what they were doing was tantamount to theft, she got on the horn with the mountain manager and got us our money back.

We found it amusing that today after someone evidentally explained the laws of contract to Traven and Jason that everyone was offered a refund of their money, or the option of letting the mountain keep the $$$ and gaining 10 points in the series.

Nothing for nothing, but when I am taking time off work, driving out to the venue when gas is $3 a gallon, and spending $90 a night for a $40 a night hotel room, being treated like this by the employees of Snowshoe promises that I will never spend another dime on that mountain. Kind of bums me out, looked like a good series, but I am not going to give one red cent to a place that employs sh!theels like I ran into this weekend.

Just something to think about when choosing your races...

 

[BUCKET]

First - no one can control the weather.

Second - the soil on the west coast is much different than the east, and especially snowshoe.

Third - Calm and rational manner? Dude - most of the people on the mountain heard you flippin out over 15 bucks. I would have gave you 15 bucks just so you would have shutup.

Finally - Trust me, no one is gonna miss your absense at Snowshoe.

 

[Castle]

Dang!

 

[Bearmntpicnic]

Mr.Bucket, if i make a ruckus on the mountain can I have your fifteen dollars? I felt like the race series was run well and they handeld the canceling of the races correctly, Although if they had not offered the refuned option I would have been royally pisssssed. I am also excited about the free day of riding. On thing that I am disappointed about is the fact that season pass holders do not get any discount of race registration it is crap. But its a fun race.

 

[Msisle Dad]

I dont know you, But I know Treyvn well. He's one of the nicest, trustworthy people I know.

 

[metalMTB]

I agree. the people at snowshoe are really nice. they can't control the weather and i don't think they've ever had to cancel a race like that before.

 

[Cant Climb]

Snowshoe peeps are the nicest i ever met in a big resort type setting.....

 

[John M]

I have been going to Snowshoe at least 2x a year for 6 years.
I have NEVER run in to ANYONE with a bad attitude. I too heard you making you're "calm" plee.
Now I am from Detroit (not WV) you would of got alot more than me turning around and walking away.
I also agree with the guy above. You will not be missed at the next event. So just go away will you??-JM

 

[gastro]

I too have nothing but praise for the Snowshoe staff, and I am sure they were as disappointed as anyone at the need to cancel the races.

 

[Bearmntpicnic]

what are you going to do with your free day of ridin g

 

[BUCKET]

Mr.Bucket, if i make a ruckus on the mountain can I have your fifteen dollars? I felt like the race series was run well and they handeld the canceling of the races correctly, Although if they had not offered the refuned option I would have been royally pisssssed. I am also excited about the free day of riding. On thing that I am disappointed about is the fact that season pass holders do not get any discount of race registration it is crap. But its a fun race.

Well of course!

Did you race Intro or AM? I seen you shaking at the start gate like you had tourets - guess you were just cold from the rain.

 

[riverside73]

We finally had to go make a lot of bad noise down at the customer service center. After explaining to the very nice girl at the center, Desiree, that what they were doing was tantamount to theft, she got on the horn with the mountain manager and got us our money back.

There's a difference between "two dickweeds" and Snowshoe as a whole. Sounds to me like the folks at the Customer Service Center did exactly what they were supposed to do (ginving you your money back) and were nice about it!! So you really have no right for dragging them through the dirt because of the actions of the "dickweeds." I do however agree with you about them....walking away and refusing to talk to you is just downright unproffessional. I have dabbled in promoting and been a Race Director and would have never treated anyone like that....unless they were being dickweeds!!!

 

[Matt H]

Went up to the shoe with noname and WSU DH'er this weekend, and I have to say after how we were treated on Saturday it will be the last time we ever spend money there.

The DH was cool, but when they decided to kill the DS on Saturday, the original response was "NO REFUNDS!" I add caps to show just how asshat the events guys there were.

Two dickweeds come to mind as to why I won't be going back...

First there was Traven (I think that's his name) who was the Race Manager for the weekend. He chose to kill the DS because "its too wet and there's erosion on the course." We were fine with this, though the Sea Otter was run in much worse conditions this year, but we wanted our money back. We had driven 8 hours in the rain, had wasted money on the hotel room, all of that, so we didn't feel like letting Snowshoe "liberate" $15 more of our money. We were told that we could have our fees extended for the next race, which for two of three of us was not an option. While we tried to explain this in a calm, rational manner, Traven just walked away when we told him that pushing our fees to the next race was unacceptable.

Second was the "Event Manager" Jason. When asked for our money back for the DS, he got really combative telling me how "there isn't a venue in the country that would give you your money back" and then attempting to explain law to me. He decided that since we signed a "waiver" that there was no contract for a race, and that we could go stick our thumbs up our collective asses. When we asked to speak again to Traven he refused to come speak to us. Nice way to run a race!

We finally had to go make a lot of bad noise down at the customer service center. After explaining to the very nice girl at the center, Desiree, that what they were doing was tantamount to theft, she got on the horn with the mountain manager and got us our money back.

We found it amusing that today after someone evidentally explained the laws of contract to Traven and Jason that everyone was offered a refund of their money, or the option of letting the mountain keep the $$$ and gaining 10 points in the series.

Nothing for nothing, but when I am taking time off work, driving out to the venue when gas is $3 a gallon, and spending $90 a night for a $40 a night hotel room, being treated like this by the employees of Snowshoe promises that I will never spend another dime on that mountain. Kind of bums me out, looked like a good series, but I am not going to give one red cent to a place that employs sh!theels like I ran into this weekend.

Just something to think about when choosing your races...

You flipped out over $15, when they offered to let you use it toward a future race, am I understanding this correctly? From reading your posts, it's also my understanding that you frequently travel to ride and race, and that another trip to Snowshoe even this season would be possible or even routine?

Is this correct?

 

[stubby]

i was actually listening to your conversations with them, and they were very one sided, and they were not dickweeds, they were very nice and calm about it, trevyn is probaly one of the nicest people you will ever meet, and snowshoe cant just let people destroy their course, and loose money over the weekend. If they did race people would have complained anyways.

 

[dhbuilder]

can i come take his place at the next race ?

 

[drt_jumper]

Man apparently tattooo is going to be seriously missed......I can understand being upset, and wanting a refund if it were something that the mountain could control, i.e. lifts or shuttle bus breaking or something, but for the weather, everyone who has ever ridden at snowshoe know that everytime you go there you are taking a "big" chance on the weather. If you were not aware of the fact that it could be 90 degrees and sunny at the bottom of the mountain and 45 and rain up top, then you are delusional. Suck it up and quit whining. So you lost some money, hell I blew out my right knee there last year and lost all kind of money from doctors bills, broken bike, broken body, and am finally having surgery after nine months which not to mention kills me for this season, yet I am not out pissing and moaning about one bad trip to snowshoe. Grow up, suck it up and keep riding.

 

[dhbuilder]

I have been going to Snowshoe at least 2x a year for 6 years.
I have NEVER run in to ANYONE with a bad attitude. I too heard you making you're "calm" plee.
Now I am from Detroit (not WV) you would of got alot more than me turning around and walking away.
I also agree with the guy above. You will not be missed at the next event. So just go away will you??-JM

you're startin to sound like that damn joey over in the "south."

 

[denjen]

Dont go away mad, just go away. Didnt hear or see the confontation but heard from several people that your aproach to the situation was not cool. You knew coming into this that it was callng for t-storms all weekend. The whole event fell apart for SS and I give them a big thank you for stepping up and handling the way that they did.

 

[jonnynails]

Man apparently tattooo is going to be seriously missed......I can understand being upset, and wanting a refund if it were something that the mountain could control, i.e. lifts or shuttle bus breaking or something, but for the weather, everyone who has ever ridden at snowshoe know that everytime you go there you are taking a "big" chance on the weather. If you were not aware of the fact that it could be 90 degrees and sunny at the bottom of the mountain and 45 and rain up top, then you are delusional. Suck it up and quit whining. So you lost some money, hell I blew out my right knee there last year and lost all kind of money from doctors bills, broken bike, broken body, and am finally having surgery after nine months which not to mention kills me for this season, yet I am not out pissing and moaning about one bad trip to snowshoe. Grow up, suck it up and keep riding.

I totally agree, when you get ready to go to mudshoe you just have to know going in that the weather is going to suck. I don't know tattoo and I agree that it is no fun spending money and not getting to race, but that is gravity racing and we all should feel lucky that we get to do it and that there are mountains in our area that actually open there trails to us. Not going back - you certainly will miss a great DH course. I hear a lot of bitchin' on hear about all of the venues. Sugar this, Snowshoe that, whine, whine, whine. I'm pretty sick of hearing it. Just imagine if none of the mountains in the southeast/mid-atlantic opened for us???? Then people would yap about that. The saying "shut up and ride" comes to mind.

 

[CKxx]

I wasn't there, any don't have any idea what happened, but would like to make an observation based on reading this thread so far...

The people in charge were telling 'tattoo' that there would be no refund, he flipped out or whatnot, then they refunded his money and started telling other riders they could have a refund or 10pts. Is it possible that if he didn't make a stink no one would have gotten a refund? It seems his flipping out may have got the ball rolling, so to speak. Is that a possibility?

 

[dhbuilder]

Just imagine if none of the mountains in the southeast/mid-atlantic opened for us????

that thought gives me nightmares.
the last thing i want to do is go back to x-c riding. i think i'd just sell it all and get fat.

from what i hear from one of my riding mates, is that they're learning more and more up there about how to build and maintain the trails for that paticular mt.
that's a skill that takes a little time to learn as you see what the seasons and changing weather can do to your sacred ribbons of dirt.
it differs from place to place.

everyone should be thankful that they're up there doing what is usually a thankless job for most of the year.
weekends like this last one is what they put in all their time and effort for.
and i'm positive nobodies heart was broken more than theirs.

critism of trailbuilders and their product should be a capital punishment offense

 

[Jeremy R]

Bike Racing is a Tribe.
Some people do not belong in it.
If $15 is worth more to you than what those guys are trying to accomplish up on that mountain for us racers then scurry off in another direction.
The tribe has spoken.

 

[spoke80]

Bike Racing is a Tribe.
Some people do not belong in it.
If $15 is worth more to you than what those guys are trying to accomplish up on that mountain for us racers then scurry off in another direction.
The tribe has spoken.

snuff dat torch out yo!

 

[dhbuilder]

Bike Racing is a Tribe.
The tribe has spoken.

whoa.
you on a yeti now ?

welcome aboard.

 

[Bearmntpicnic]

BUCKET. Yeah I raced AM, I was so cold at the start that I could barley hang on to the handel bars it was a pretty ****ty race run for me

 

[Tattooo]

Ahhhh yes, the idea of the "bro down tribe...."

My issue wasn't the weather, or the quality of the riding. I've been doing this long enough, riding in enough places, seen enough weather, and have dealt with enough promoters to know the difference.

My problem was the fact that the idea of a refund was so far out of the mindset for these guys that they became insulted when I asked for one. I was told time and time agian that I had to deal with Treven and Jason, and when I did ask them for my money back, they tried to stone wall me.

We started out polite, asked nicely for our money back. I only flipped out when I was straight up denied our money back. For some of you maybe letting a promoter walk all over you is acceptable to keep the "tribe" happy, but I could give a **** less about the tribe, group think, or having my money held onto by people I don't know.

Frankly if I am not welcome at the venue again, its not any skin off my back. I got all of my money back for the weekend. However, I've worked as a race promoter, as a ski area manager, and every other odd job a mountain has to offer. I know as fact, because its happened more then once, if I treated a guest like these two treated my friends and me that I would have been fired by the next business day.

As for Treven being the nicest guy you know and the salt of the earth and the next coming of Christ, all of this may be true. Perhaps the guy was having a crap day due to his event falling apart. However, this does not excuse his unwillingness to make things right with the people coming up to race, nor does it it excuse him going inside and refusing to speak with us. That's just unprofessional. If it was a bad day, fine, but still it is not an excuse. You want to be the one in charge, then that title comes with certain responsibilities. One of those is dealing with irate customers.

All of the above being said, the venue was kick ass. The course, even though it ate my lunch, was amazing. I really liked it up there, and had every intent of making every race this season. However, like I said above, I have been doing this long enough to know how things are supposed to run. If you shut down a race, offer a refund. You didn't deliver the promised product, and as such you have no right to hold onto assets produced as a benefit of a promise unfufilled.



Edit: One more thing... When I went in on Sunday to clear up everything about the refund I was informed then that there were now nine people who wanted their money back as opposed to the three of us who first went down to customer service. Turns out maybe we weren't alone in being mistreated.

 

[drt_jumper]

From what it sounds like, you were not mistreated, rather that trevyn just didnt want to deal with your b.s. at that particular moment, which he does not have to. Customer Service is one thing, getting b***hed at by some random rider about a $15 refund because he got his panties all wet and couldnt race is totally different. If it were most anyone else on here and you pulled (what was basically described as a temper tantrum) that crap on some of us more not so polite riders I assure you things would have turned out differently.....Did you get to ride at all that weekend? Sounds like you did and you had a good time doing it....so chalk it up to bad weather and you losing control of your mouth and shut up and ride. Or take your ball and go home, because you are not persuading anyone on here to not go to Snowshoe!

 

[Tattooo]

Are you really ****ing dumb enough to threaten someone over the internet?

 

[dhbuilder]

can i come take his place at the next race ?

if anything, it'll create more publicity for the remaining races, as more and more view this thread.

 

[Tattooo]

if anything, it'll create more publicity for the remaining races, as more and more view this thread.

Good point.
The truth is I really did enjoy the course, and we had a great time with just this one little glitch. My problem is that this was just poorly run in this instance. I wasn't trying to be an ass when I asked for my money back, but its the principal of the matter. It was as if it was his $15 even though they had not run a race.

As to the point made about if we got to ride, we did. However, the money paid for the DS was not money for our DH time on the mountain. I think more than anything we were just pissed off that we didn't get to run that DS, it looked entertaining.

 

[Bearmntpicnic]

well im glad that tattooo got the folks at snowshoe to offer a refund there it is wrong to think that a resort should be able to cancel a race and still keep the entry fees

 

[drt_jumper]

Tattooo there was no threat in my statement at all. I was mearly stating that if you had come up to myself or a few others on here acting like a punk you would have gotten the same thing back, i.e. yelling back at you and apparently acting just like you did, and not just walking away and choosing to ignore you!

 

[drt_jumper]

well im glad that tattooo got the folks at snowshoe to offer a refund there it is wrong to think that a resort should be able to cancel a race and still keep the entry fees

So I guess since the weather turned out to be crap that snowshoe should just eat all of the cost for building the courses, paying for officials and all of that? Doesnt sound like good business to eat the cost completely. I think them offering to give you points towards the next race and basically make your next race free is above and beyond what they would have to do. Besides it is not there fault nor their problem if people can make it to the next race...they have to assume that you are going to attempt to race the whole series. There seems to me that there was a much better way of approaching people about a possible refund then to go and start B***hing at them about it while the even is unraveling.....maybe wait a little bit until things calm down and then go and talk to the powers at be.

 

[Tattooo]

Follow me here for a moment.

Let's say you went to a movie last weekend, and due to the rain and wind the power was knocked out, or a hole developed in the roof of the theater. The theater then came over the PA and said something to the tune of "we regret to inform you that we cannot show the movie due to circumstances beyond our control." The lights come on, the ushers open the doors for you, and the show is over.

You go to the manager, and he tells you flat out that there will be no refunds. He then goes further to tell you that there isn't a cinema in the country that will give you your money back due to such circumstances. You know this to be either a) an out an out lie or b) a gross exaggeration of the facts.

Would you, in this situation, walk away with the $15 lining the pockets of the movie theater, or would you have a conversation in a slightly elevated volume and tone with the manager? Would you stop when he said "No, and that's final" or would you go to his boss?

Now to add some shading to this picture let's say you drove 8 hours in the rain because this is the only venue that was playing some movie you really wanted to see. Let's say its Deliverance 2: More anal then you can shake your dick at!, and that you had spent money to get there, to sleep before the show, all that good stuff. If some manager then told you "NO, and that's how it is" wouldn't you get a bit bent out of shape? Wouldn't you tell people you knew, or perhaps announce it in forums you have some respect for, as to how it went down and how you were treated?

Yea, we finally did get our money back, but what I am saying is that it was not necessary for it to be so complicated. The cash box was right there, and in point of fact they hadn't even charged the card yet that I had used to pay. All they would have had to do is to tear up the original charge slip, rewrite me one for $45 instead of $60, and all would have been right as rain and Robert's your Mother's Brother. However, due to some reason I cannot fathom they chose to make this more complex than need be.

 

[Tattooo]

So I guess since the weather turned out to be crap that snowshoe should just eat all of the cost for building the courses, paying for officials and all of that? Doesnt sound like good business to eat the cost completely. I think them offering to give you points towards the next race and basically make your next race free is above and beyond what they would have to do. Besides it is not there fault nor their problem if people can make it to the next race...they have to assume that you are going to attempt to race the whole series. There seems to me that there was a much better way of approaching people about a possible refund then to go and start B***hing at them about it while the even is unraveling.....maybe wait a little bit until things calm down and then go and talk to the powers at be.

How is this above and beyond?

A business takes risks when they put something like this on as an event. It is not right, nor is it really legal, to ask the consumer to eat the costs for a risk undertaken by the supplier.

Your line of thought would make it so that if I went to Walmart and the 200 round box of 12ga shells I needed was damaged that I ought to take the box at full cost regardless of damage or loss of use. Yea, maybe you got some fun terrorizing the local empty PBR cans with the shells that did work, but you didn't get your money's worth.

Would you be good with this line of thinking if you took your car to the mechanic and your car ended up not working? Would you "eat the costs" on your end, or would you go back and demand your money back. Maybe you're good with taking it in the shorts for the "brotherhood of the tribe" or whatever such crap you're basing this on, but some of us are just enough ahead of the game to know this isn't how things work.

Snowshoe took a risk, and due to weather was unable to deliver the product. Its not my responsibility to shoulder some or all of the costs because of a calculated risk they took.

 

[stoneysnake]

i too saw the professional way you handled you're situation. all of your great sponsors should be proud to have you represent them.

 

[Tattooo]

i too saw the professional way you handled you're situation. all of your great sponsors should be proud to have you represent them.

I called most of them today and told them how it went down, not one complaint.

 

[Pi31412]

I wasn't there dude but I heard your blast of profanity all the way up at Whitetail. It threw me off my line throught the dreaded Saturday rocky lefthander and I ate it. NOT COOL.

I wouldn't nix the whole resort after one experience with someone you think did a poor job with customer service. Sadly our sport just doesn't have enough places to ride to be afforded that luxury. I think most people can get over your little tyraid without therapy so in the end who cares if some fat dude blew his stack. No offense like, honest. Did you even blow your stack and start cursing or were you just speaking with conviction and forcefulness? Did you replace "hell" with "heck"? If not, NOT COOL AGAIN dude.

My snowshoe experience is limited. I really just wish they had more places to eat.



Here's a better story than this one... I had a restaurant that I went to for at least 5 years. They knew me and I was treated very well until one day I ordered the roast beef sandwich, which after being placed in front of me had Rodney the Roach jump out from under the lettuce (and sings "Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my ragtime gal") then disappears back into my sandwich.

I freaked out (screamed ROACH! ROACH! and jumped on my chair), got my money back, and got a WHOPPING $75 gift check that I used for prime rib. I never went back after that because I had to ask for some sort of compensation. Now that sucks because I like good food but the difference is there's lots of places to eat.



Peace.

 

[Tattooo]

Blast of profanity? I think, if memory serves, I said bullsh!t once.
Sorry if the tyrade knocked you off down at White, wasn't my intent. Sometimes it just happens.

No offense taken. Fat kid with a bit of education is well known for going off when he is about to be on the losing end of the old Dutch Door Action.

So your line of logic is that due to the fact that it is a rarified place that will let us take our $5000 bike and go play that for some reason customer service ought to go at the wayside. I understand what it is to work at and/or run an area that offers something special that most other places of like and kind do not. However, this is not a good justification to allow them to keep my money without cause.

Or look at it like this, let's say that the restaurant you liked refused to give you your money back for almost imbibing Rodney, and then walked in the back and wouldn't speak to you. Are you telling me that you would not have been on the phone to the owner post haste, and that you wouldn't have told others of your expierences with said eatery?

Good food/good dirt is great, but having to throw a hissy fit to get my money back isn't as much fun.

 

[denjen]

well im glad that tattooo got the folks at snowshoe to offer a refund there it is wrong to think that a resort should be able to cancel a race and still keep the entry fees

Trust me tattoo had nothing to do with getting everbodies money refunded. If he would have just chilled out and waited to see how things panned out I promise you the result would have been the same. This is my 7th summer at SS and never in all those years have I seen anything but A+ custemer service. And that goes double for moutain biking. They know that every year more and more people come up there and most of it is from word of mouth. They arn't going to let $15 spoil someone else being told how great SS is. When I heard that the race was cancelled never for one second did I think that SS wasnt going to take care of us.