[H8R]

Anyone work with stains and tung oil?

I need suggestions on a good brand of stain that will give a very black finish, but still show some grain. This will be on birch. I don't want it to look "brown/black", I want a nice even black, with the satin finish of the tung oil.

Something enviro-friendly preferred. Are there any good water-based stains?

Also, what kind of drill bit should be used on thin birch ply that doesn't tear the wood up? 1/4" holes maximum.


I am a carpentry hack, I hung drywall in my late teens for a living, but my woodworking skills are kinda weak.

Any/all suggestions welcome.

 

[bigbirdie]

the only advice I can give you is trying a gel rub on stain. stick with the name brands that you will find in Lowes or Home Depot. Water base stains are ok, as long as you are planning to put some sort of protectant coating over it (i.e.: polycrilic, polyurethane). because if you don't and you manage to get water on the wood, the stain will bleed. as for the drill bit. here is a little trick that I use so I don't get tear through when drilling through wood. put a scrap piece of wood under the part that you are planning on drilling and when you do drill, go right through and into the scrap piece of wood. I would recommend using a 1/8" bit first to get a pilot hole for the 1/4" bit for the finishing hole size. good luck.

 

[Greyhound]

Generally, enviro-friendly and wood finishing really don't walk hand-in-hand.....so if you can turn a blind eye long anough, I've found that Minwax makes an excellent stain for just such purposes called appropriately "Ebony."

If you're that particularly fussy about keeping it "green" I would suggest using ground coffee beans made into a paste to achieve that darker look you are going for. I've also found that black acrylic paint thinned down with a little water makes an excellent colorant that you can build up layers of to get your desired level of shade. I've used this method on many different projects and have been satisfied every time. Good luck, and give me a shout if you need any other tips.........I majored in wood design in college, so I'm kinda good for a few things here and there.

 

[BikeGeek]

here is a little trick that I use so I don't get tear through when drilling through wood. put a scrap piece of wood under the part that you are planning on drilling and when you do drill, go right through and into the scrap piece of wood. I would recommend using a 1/8" bit first to get a pilot hole for the 1/4" bit for the finishing hole size. good luck.

Good advice.

I've had pretty bad luck with the gel stains...got some really uneven finishes. Same goes for the all-in-one-step stain/finish stuff. I've never used water-based, so can't comment. You can always pick up a small can and test it out on a piece of scrap. Maybe look at the "Onyx" and "Ebony" colors from Minwax.

 

[Biscuit]

A couple of things:
- Follow bigbirdie's recommendations for drilling holes. Make sure your bit is sharp and don't push too hard. You should be able to feel when it's about to break through - back off. For bit's I recommend "brad-point" bits. Just make sure your original pilot hole isn't too big for the brad-point. (by "brad"point", I do not mean "spade". A spade bit will never give you a clean exit hole)

- Whenever staining plywood: USE A PRE-STAIN CONDITIONER! Without it your stain will end up blotchy and uneven. I also recommend you try a test piece. I usually smear it on with a rag (or spray if you have the tools). Make sure the entire piece get's coated to it looks "wet", let it sit a few minutes, wipe it off (with the grain) using big strokes (this evens out the stain better), changing rags frequently. Also, don't use paper towels - buy a bag of rags or use old lint free t'shirts.

- Ebony stain should give you the look you desire. I pretty much always use minwax oil based stains.

- If you don't have finishing experience, I highly, highly, recommend getting a wipe on polyurethane gel. I think minwax makes one, but I've only used Rocklers (www.rockler.com). Three coats and it will look better than you hoped for.

Either that, or a wipe on tung oil finish is hard to screw up. Just don't wait too long so the oil doesn't coagulate (get sticky) on the surface. If it does, don't panic. Simply take some 220grit sandpaper and wet-sand the piece with oil. Basically, pour some more oil on the piece and sand off the sticky stuff.

- I don't like water based stains and finishes. They don't provide the same color/warmth, don't wear as well, and the H2O is absorbed by the wood and makes the grain stand up (ruins all that sanding you just did).

- BIIIIIGGGG pointer: Always sand with the grain. Vibrating and random-oscilating sanders work great, but work them with the grain. After your done with the machine, always finish it off with-the-grain by hand (220 grit is usually good). As you sand, get progressively smoother, don't skip, and look carefully at the wood to check for fine scratches caused by the sandpaper - there should be none by the time you stain.

If you a) sand against the grain; or b) skip grain levels when you sand; you will be able to see them as soon as you apply the stain. The more exposed, rougher grain will soak up more stain and be a dark line (eyesore).

Sanding (and cleaning) is the most important thing you can do to make sure your project comes out good. Take your time or you'll regret it.


Oh, and post pics when your done.

 

[Biscuit]

Another note: when you cut cross grain on plywood veneer, the veneer will chip a little. A sharp blade helps. If it's going to be real visible, cover it in blue masking tape before cutting.

 

[H8R]

Thanks for all the tips!

This is going to be for a new drumkit project. Everything I'm reading here jibes with all the custom build drum forums I'm reading.



I'll be buying seom birch ply to practice on and test the finish before I go at it on the shells. Also, the shells I'm buying come only as certain sizes and depths. I am having them cut to length on order, so I will also get all the cutoff ends to work with. (I'll be making some strange shallow drums as well).

As far as stains it doesn't have to be perfectly "green", I just like to use alternatives if they are viable. Tung oil gives a very nice finish on the things I have seen it used for.

 

[H8R]

Another note: when you cut cross grain on plywood veneer, the veneer will chip a little. A sharp blade helps. If it's going to be real visible, cover it in blue masking tape before cutting.

I am having the cutting and the edges done at the supplier. I don't have the tools needed to pull off cutting 14", 18" and 24" wide plywood tubes, let alone the router setup to finish the edges.

I have a budget, and the tools alone would cost twice as much as the kit.

 

[Biscuit]

Sound cool!

Send me some links, building drums sounds fun. I don't play, but a friend does... and I like to build things.