[golgiaparatus]

There is a music manufacturing company... they do TONS of business with small and big time musicians all over the country. Well about a year ago one of my clients used them to print and package their CD's... my artwork was okay, not the best I have ever done, but it had a lot of custom die work, spot varnishes... stuff that I made then do (because they resisted) that they dont normally offer. Anyway, this place has its own design department which basically churns out super fast, medium quality design work... I do a fair amount of business with them through clients so they send me their advertising in the mail... last catalog and promo they sent me had my artwork all over the front of the promo and catalog with a headline... "out top notch art department will supply you with your own custom look" (or something like that).

I wonder what I should do here. They are claiming that work that was billed to my freelance DBA is their own. I'm flattered that they think my work is better than their own but still... thats my ****ing work.

 

[Cooter Brown]

cease & desist letter, unless they send you a mega amount of $$

 

[Graphics]

There is a music manufacturing company... they do TONS of business with small and big time musicians all over the country. Well about a year ago one of my clients used them to print and package their CD's... my artwork was okay, not the best I have ever done, but it had a lot of custom die work, spot varnishes... stuff that I made then do (because they resisted) that they dont normally offer. Anyway, this place has its own design department which basically churns out super fast, medium quality design work... I do a fair amount of business with them through clients so they send me their advertising in the mail... last catalog and promo they sent me had my artwork all over the front of the promo and catalog with a headline... "out top notch art department will supply you with your own custom look" (or something like that).

I wonder what I should do here. They are claiming that work that was billed to my freelance DBA is their own. I'm flattered that they think my work is better than their own but still... thats my ****ing work.

That is totally freakin WRONG!!! Yes it's flattering...but if they had ASKED!!! and you had agreed. I would talk them about it and even possibly a lawyer. You might make some money out of the deal. Or at least they should offer some sort of trade with you. :mumble: :love:

 

[Toshi]

that's not kosher. call them up and, if that fails, send them a notarized bill.

 

[McGRP01]

cease & desist letter, unless they send you a mega amount of $$

 

[golgiaparatus]

that's not kosher. call them up and, if that fails, send them a notarized bill.

I was thinking that I could either bill them for using my artwork or hit them up for some freelance work and try to turn the situation into cashflow for my freelance biz (prolly the smartest option, also avoids unneeded mental chafing).

I dunno... they may have called my client and asked. I need to call them too and see WTF is going on.

cease & desist letter, unless they send you a mega amount of $$

This was a cherity job... I made only a few hundred on it. I dont want to do the lawyer thing where it would cost me more than I made on the job. But I can dream, eh.

 

[Slugman]

Unless you signed away the rights to it, you should contact them.

However if the client that you did the work for retained the rights to use the artwork, you should check with them to see if they authorized it.

 

[Ciaran]

This was a cherity job... I made only a few hundred on it. I dont want to do the lawyer thing where it would cost me more than I made on the job. But I can dream, eh.

Yes, but how much business will this catalog generate. How much money will they make off of it?

Unless you signed away the rights to the work it's a copyright infringement, and they need to pay. I think you can sue them for your legal fees as well. Talk to a lawyer, it might be worth it.

 

[spincrazy]

Get as much info as you can first. Then, send a nicely worded email to them inquiring as to what is goinig on to start. CC someone they don't know that has a fancy name.

 

[jacksonpt]

If you do a lot of work with them, then you might want to be a bit more gentle about it. If you have a decent relationship with someone over there, call and let them know that you don't appreciate them using yoru work in their advertising, implying that their designers crank out that type of work.

Make yoru point and move on, as you don't want to burn any bridges.

 

[Graphics]

when you talk to them...don't let on that you might contact a lawyer...just get a feel for their position.

 

[Biscuit]

^^ Like they said ^^

Be nice about it, but you need to defend your rights. This could become a big (legal) issue in the future. If another company decides to do the same, or the same company increases their unauthorized use of your work, you would have no legal standing because you "let it go" before.

Try to get them to recognize the issue and you can either demand payment, or work out a freelance deal like you stated above.

Either way, you NEED to give/deny them express permission IN WRITING so as not to lose rights to your work.

 

[atrokz]

Totaly wrong. Get on it...

 

[MouseMonkey]

Instead of listening to these knuckleheads (only joking, many of them are probably correct) you should do yourself a favor and join the Graphic Artists Guild. Buy the handbook, read it and learn the laws. Not only will you better understand your rights, but you can find free/cheap legal help if you need it.

http://www.gag.org/

There are a lot of "Dudes" out there calling themselves designers, but don't know the first thing about the profession. Don't be one of them!

JMH

 

[JohnE]

Doesnt it remain your "Intellectual property" even after you sell it?
Go after them, gently at first, but turn up the pressure as needeed...

 

[MouseMonkey]

No, if you enter into a "work for hire" agreement, the company that you do the work for owns the rights.

But if you never signed anything, then you didn't agree to anything.

JMH

Doesnt it remain your "Intellectual property" even after you sell it?
Go after them, gently at first, but turn up the pressure as needeed...

 

[golgiaparatus]

There are a lot of "Dudes" out there calling themselves designers, but don't know the first thing about the profession. Don't be one of them!

JMH

Don't give me that, classroom "desktop publisher" vs "Art Director" crap. I know how and what I need to be charging for my clients in my business, I also know how to take care of myself legally if I need to. I have been doing this for 10 years.

And since when did the GAG have any power whatsoever? They make a nice handbook... I own the version from 96 when I was a green jr AD. It'd be great if everyone followed the guidelines, especially when it comes to pricing but the fact of the matter is many reputable people, that are still Real Designers mind you, do not.

If the guild was a real, active union with millions of members in each chapter, that would be great, but they are not. If they were, Agencies wouldn't be able to pay their art directors crap... they wouldnt be working designers around the clock 7 days a week only to let them drive home to their 1 bedroom apartment in their 88 Honda with no tailpipe.

Tell me... what has the GAG done for you other than give you the idea that you can go around labeling people "Real Designers" or otherwise?

 

[golgiaparatus]

Well I finally got in touch with my rep, and through him I found out what happened. Basically their Marketing director was looking through some work to have it photographed for the catalog. Somehow mine got mixed in and shot. No one ever knew it was not in house work until the guy that was working on my project saw the published catalog. They wont be running it again.

However I did authorize them to distribute my work as a sample... my company contact is on the back (that was one of the deals I made with the client to keep the cost of my work down). Free advertising

I have also spoken to the Creative director of their in house design department and he informs me that he likes my work and wants to send some overflow my way in the near future.

I could have flown off the handle, but then what... I get some guy that accidentally collected my work into the samples in trouble, and I create a bad relationship with a company that is not only one of my vendors but could possibly be a good client.

 

[spincrazy]

Don't give me that, classroom "desktop publisher" vs "Art Director" crap. I know how and what I need to be charging for my clients in my business, I also know how to take care of myself legally if I need to. I have been doing this for 10 years.

And since when did the GAG have any power whatsoever? They make a nice handbook... I own the version from 96 when I was a green jr AD. It'd be great if everyone followed the guidelines, especially when it comes to pricing but the fact of the matter is many reputable people, that are still Real Designers mind you, do not.

If the guild was a real, active union with millions of members in each chapter, that would be great, but they are not. If they were, Agencies wouldn't be able to pay their art directors crap... they wouldnt be working designers around the clock 7 days a week only to let them drive home to their 1 bedroom apartment in their 88 Honda with no tailpipe.

Tell me... what has the GAG done for you other than give you the idea that you can go around labeling people "Real Designers" or otherwise?

see also ASMP http://www.asmp.org/ (my version of the acronym is: American Society of Mediocre Photographers) who really like to bitch and whine.

 

[golgiaparatus]

see also ASMP http://www.asmp.org/ (my version of the acronym is: American Society of Mediocre Photographers) who really like to bitch and whine.

Do they have a pin? Seriously if they have a pin I'm f*cking in. I'll wear it on my barrett next to my GAG pin, and then I can start telling people how much to charge for their work, where they can get overpriced insurance and legal service... and most importantly where they can post their portfolio with the other 5 members who have posted their mediocre work

 

[MouseMonkey]

Blow up much? You asked in a bicycle forum for intellectual property advice. Forgive me for assuming you weren't familiar with some aspects of the business.

I didn't say that there was something called a "real designer", that's your own term. I simply stated that there are a lot of "dudes" out there that don't know enough about the business, and it would benefit them to take the time to learn the sometimes unpleasant aspects of the job.

I also never said GAG had any power. Their handbook explains many of the legal situations that were mentioned in the thread. I also stated that they can help you get free legal advice. But since you have RideMonkey, I guess that would be pointless.

Sorry to waste your time with info you already know, keep up the good work.

MM

Don't give me that, classroom "desktop publisher" vs "Art Director" crap. I know how and what I need to be charging for my clients in my business, I also know how to take care of myself legally if I need to. I have been doing this for 10 years.

And since when did the GAG have any power whatsoever? They make a nice handbook... I own the version from 96 when I was a green jr AD. It'd be great if everyone followed the guidelines, especially when it comes to pricing but the fact of the matter is many reputable people, that are still Real Designers mind you, do not.

If the guild was a real, active union with millions of members in each chapter, that would be great, but they are not. If they were, Agencies wouldn't be able to pay their art directors crap... they wouldnt be working designers around the clock 7 days a week only to let them drive home to their 1 bedroom apartment in their 88 Honda with no tailpipe.

Tell me... what has the GAG done for you other than give you the idea that you can go around labeling people "Real Designers" or otherwise?

 

[Prettym1k3]

If OK is anything like CA, sue them.

Anyone who's anyone has been sued or sued someone...

Haha...

 

[golgiaparatus]

Blow up much? You asked in a bicycle forum for intellectual property advice. Forgive me for assuming you weren't familiar with some aspects of the business.

I didn't say that there was something called a "real designer", that's your own term. I simply stated that there are a lot of "dudes" out there that don't know enough about the business, and it would benefit them to take the time to learn the sometimes unpleasant aspects of the job.

I also never said GAG had any power. Their handbook explains many of the legal situations that were mentioned in the thread. I also stated that they can help you get free legal advice. But since you have RideMonkey, I guess that would be pointless.

Sorry to waste your time with info you already know, keep up the good work.

MM

I would say yeah, I blow up every once in a while. You basically said... "There are a lot of people calling themselves designers... but arent. Don't be one of them!" Thats the same thing, it's annoying... and it was directed at me which struck a nerve.

Still, I'm sorry I kind of went off on you there... Its just that I've heard that schpiel too many times... I'm not saying that this is the case with you but, usually I hear that stuff from some student or jr art director spewing back something that he heard his professor say.

As for legal advice and the ... I was just making a thread, conversation. If I thought I needed legal advice I would have gotten it.