Would you run this carbon bar?
- Thread starter Bubiz
- Start date
Any day now.
When it comes to handlebars I consider the cost of failure. To me, it's just not worth the risk.
You seem to think anyone who isn't a fan of carbon bars on a DJ bike also must be a retro grouch on vintage gear.
Use whatever you want and have a good time.
Sure, I consider that as well, that's why a simple scratch made me thinking if I should keep running it.
As I said I didn't buy that bar, it was on the bike I bought, I could even say I wouldn't even bought a carbon bar, because of the price and because the almost non-existent advantage that it brings with that price.
But now I have it, been running it for three years (one of which with that scratch I didn't notice) and found it actually has a small advanatge over my PRO alu bar (it's more comfortable over rough stuff, nothing more nothing less).
The carbon vs alu debate, specially on bars, is here since ages and will never end, it started with frames, but as of today most of the frames are actually carbon frames (at least on DH bikes), and pro riders use carbon stuff everywhere.
My previous bike was a Revolt and it was such a fantastic frame that I decided to buy an Undead, which is carbon, and it's even better.
I'm so happy with the way it rides that even if it has 26" wheels I dodn't even think about buying a new one. If the Undead was made out of aluminum I would have bought it anyway, it was the frame that I wanted, not the material.
That to say that I'm not a fan of carbon bars (my cranks are carbon as well, by the way... haha), I just wanted that bike badly and it happened it had carbon everywhere. Should I sell all the carbon stuff? That looks a bit paranoic, I think.
And I don't think anyone who isn't a fan of carbon bars on a DH bike also must be a retro grouch on vintage gear, I just got a bit upset because I was looking for hints and what I got was mainly people saying I was about to die, sunscreen lotions and boobies.
And I do like boobies, even more than carbon bars.
I guess the fact that you have 3 years on a carbon handlebar with at least one crash, PLUS an unknown amount of time and stress from the previous owner, puts your risk tolerance much higher than mine!
I wouldn't say "risk tolerace", I would say "carbon tolerance".
I mean, I trust those companies and their products more than you do.
I don't get this. As Nick referred to the consequences for a bar breaking are much worse than a rim cracking, IMO.
More scared of a broken wheel than a handlebar?
Eeesh
Every once in a while I'm reminded of just how effective marketing budgets used correctly really are.
Eeesh
And nothing breaks and they keep parts for 3 years.
Every once in a while I'm reminded of just how effective marketing budgets used correctly really are.
Fatigue tolerance should be of concern. Given enough cyclical fatigue, even if forces only reach a 1/3 of material tensile strength, metal or carbon can fail, more so if they have experienced impacts and abrasions.
Having broken all the components in question, wheels, cranks, and handlebars in both carbon and metal variants I find both will fail given similar force event. Carbon tends to break with less catastrophic results e.g. breaks but is still loosely attached, whereas metal fatigue breaks and sends me to the ground.
For my piece of mind any part with the history you are describing would be a dubious proposition regardless of material.
Having broken all the components in question, wheels, cranks, and handlebars in both carbon and metal variants I find both will fail given similar force event. Carbon tends to break with less catastrophic results e.g. breaks but is still loosely attached, whereas metal fatigue breaks and sends me to the ground.
For my piece of mind any part with the history you are describing would be a dubious proposition regardless of material.
i went from carbon bars to the oozy vibrocores on my megatrail and yea, i'd say the vibrocore delivers on the damped feel.
x2
Generally, something that takes a lot to break is going to absorb a lot of force when it does, so a true overload failure of wheels or a frame is probably not going to hurt the rider as much as an unexpected failure well below the expected strength of the part. The one carbon rim I broke due to low tire pressure went off like a gun/pop. I inspected the bike and didn’t see anything at first and thought I must have bottomed the shock hard, a few pedal strokes later and I felt sealant spraying out. Put in a tube and still rode 10 miles, 7 pretty hard-use DH, to finish the ride. Wheel held up fine. I’ve since seen some similar stories plus a few nights ago a known weak frame seat tube failed under a 275-300lb rider, same way, loud pop and rider was still able to ride out with the failed frame, although lightly.
Knowing a few things about failure modes, I’m bit too concerned, metal doesn’t bend and rear except for massive overload failures, which are extremely rare in riding. It cracks because of a flaw, local weak area below the intended design load, stress riser due to damage or corrosion, etc. That progresses with cycles and unless you detect it, it usually fails JRA or well below the intended load limit. This isn’t really different than carbon or anything else, we see all kinds of bike-materials do this. As much as some people can’t trust carbon rims, it was hilarious to watch one of those HED aluminum fat rims fail last winter because it’s a aluminum rim that weighs less than some similar width carbon rims, by basically having less material and no rigidity. It was obvious how that was going to end up, as in failure.
I don’t fear the carbon, but make good choices. An 800mm XC bar may be light, but will be out of its element if you are doing DH stuff. If you crash constantly, it may not be the best for you. On the other hand, superficial scratches are just that and you should probably be checking your frame and metal parts just as frequently. There was an issue with the step cast dropouts cracking recently, chainstay yokes break all the time, the one that really scares me are fork CSUs, with as much as we count on that part of the bike and as much as they see now riding ok the front wheel and smashing into stuff.
Knowing a few things about failure modes, I’m bit too concerned, metal doesn’t bend and rear except for massive overload failures, which are extremely rare in riding. It cracks because of a flaw, local weak area below the intended design load, stress riser due to damage or corrosion, etc. That progresses with cycles and unless you detect it, it usually fails JRA or well below the intended load limit. This isn’t really different than carbon or anything else, we see all kinds of bike-materials do this. As much as some people can’t trust carbon rims, it was hilarious to watch one of those HED aluminum fat rims fail last winter because it’s a aluminum rim that weighs less than some similar width carbon rims, by basically having less material and no rigidity. It was obvious how that was going to end up, as in failure.
I don’t fear the carbon, but make good choices. An 800mm XC bar may be light, but will be out of its element if you are doing DH stuff. If you crash constantly, it may not be the best for you. On the other hand, superficial scratches are just that and you should probably be checking your frame and metal parts just as frequently. There was an issue with the step cast dropouts cracking recently, chainstay yokes break all the time, the one that really scares me are fork CSUs, with as much as we count on that part of the bike and as much as they see now riding ok the front wheel and smashing into stuff.
For the record I do have a carbon bar on my hardtail, and carbon rims on trail and dh bikes. Im not anti carbon. I have seen plenty of handlebars go, metal and carbon, and the results were always pretty horrible. I guess that's where my prejudice stems from.
I think the scratch you posted isn't a big deal, and is unlikely to be the point of failure if and when the bar does fail.
If you like you can apply a thin coat of CA (cyanoacrylate) glue to the scratch surface to seal any bare material, it's safe to use on carbon in my experience and fairly durable.
How old is the bar though? I think as someone else pointed out, the bigger concern with carbon bars is generally the usage history and in particular, clamp torque and crash history. Carbon bars are pretty safe under hard use in my experience, provided a few things:
Obviously you can be more or less pedantic depending on budget, and obviously you can do all the right things and still have a failure - but in my experience that's pretty rare - most failures are user-generated in some way, often by using carbon bars with a long unknown history.
I'd never use carbon bars that I didn't personally buy new. If I buy and install them myself, I know the clamping products used on the bar, clamp torques, and most importantly I can keep mental track of the crash history.
Carbon bars aren't all created the same. I really rate the SIXC bars, but as Jm_ points out you can get a big array of weights with carbon bars - the latest 820mm / 35 rise / 35 clamp SIXC for example is 245g, it's not super light (though still saves 60-70g over a competing alloy bar) and I'd be impressed if anyone could break that bar. The previous SIXC version (800 / 35 / 35) was lighter at 225g, I ran that bar for a couple hard seasons of DH and it's now retired to my trailbike, still going strong.
@jstuhlman it's probably a good time for a fresh one, go on, you deserve it.
If you like you can apply a thin coat of CA (cyanoacrylate) glue to the scratch surface to seal any bare material, it's safe to use on carbon in my experience and fairly durable.
How old is the bar though? I think as someone else pointed out, the bigger concern with carbon bars is generally the usage history and in particular, clamp torque and crash history. Carbon bars are pretty safe under hard use in my experience, provided a few things:
- You pick one that doesn't suck, from what I've seen SIXC and Enve are both quite good
- You replace it after any big crashes, particularly any that result in lever clamps causing visible damage into the surface of the bar
- Don't use any SRAM/Avid clamping devices (brakes, dropper posts) on the bar - most failures I've seen are from bad clamp design. Obviously don't overtorque any clamps either.
- Don't buy Easton carbon bars, they're notorious for failure, I'd also avoid smaller / less known brands
- To be extra safe, replace or retire to a lighter use bike every 2-3 years, depending on how much you ride. I'd be doing the same except every 3-4 years with an alloy bar anyway, so really, successfully running carbon bars is mostly just down to a) budget, and b) not being a moron.
Obviously you can be more or less pedantic depending on budget, and obviously you can do all the right things and still have a failure - but in my experience that's pretty rare - most failures are user-generated in some way, often by using carbon bars with a long unknown history.
I'd never use carbon bars that I didn't personally buy new. If I buy and install them myself, I know the clamping products used on the bar, clamp torques, and most importantly I can keep mental track of the crash history.
Carbon bars aren't all created the same. I really rate the SIXC bars, but as Jm_ points out you can get a big array of weights with carbon bars - the latest 820mm / 35 rise / 35 clamp SIXC for example is 245g, it's not super light (though still saves 60-70g over a competing alloy bar) and I'd be impressed if anyone could break that bar. The previous SIXC version (800 / 35 / 35) was lighter at 225g, I ran that bar for a couple hard seasons of DH and it's now retired to my trailbike, still going strong.
@jstuhlman it's probably a good time for a fresh one, go on, you deserve it.
What I meant to say is that I have this paranoid feeling on rims while you have it on handlebars.
It's not something logical, I know that snapping a bar would have worse consequences than breaking a wheel, it's pretty obvious, but that's how I feel about it.
But I'm not saying carbon stuff is dangerous, I'm just saying I have a stupid feeling about rims crashing and I avoid them even if it's a non sense (and mainly because of the ridiculous price tag).
Companies make this carbon stuff, people buy it and usually they don't get killed by using it. That makes me think those product HAVE to be safe...
This post couldn't possibly be more on the money.
Thanks for the hint about the cyanoacrylate glue!
I was about to apply some clear nail polish, as someone suggested, but I'm pretty sure CA glue is way better.
The bar was on a bike I bought three years ago, showroom bike, barely used. The bar looked brand new, not trimmed, no scratches, no signs of over-tightening.
First year I rode it just a few times on flow tracks only, because the previous year I got injured, second year I din't have any serious crash, just a few slides out, third year I had a big crash at the beginning of the season and ran the bar without noticing that scratch.
As I said I have to run my fork all up in the crowns because of its long axle to crown leght, so the legs stick out and the cap is very close to the bar. The bar flexed in the crash and hit the cap.
I'm very picky about my bike, I always use a torque wrench.
Didn't know that about SRAM/Avid clamping devices, anyway, I have Shimano Saint brakes and shifter
Next thing I will do is move my hadlebar high and far from the fork's top caps, by moving a spacer from the top of the crown to below and/or buying a Spank Spike short stem, which comes with a spacer. I was already considering that because I feel like the reach is bit too long.
If I decide to dump this bar I could:
1. use my old PRO FRS bar, not as comfortable, but it comes for free
2. buy a Spank Spike Vibrocore, as it looks like it works as great as a carbon one
2. buy a new carbon bar (unlikely). The only one I found at a reasonable price is a Nukeproof Horizon Carbon Riser Bar on sale at 60 Eur, don't know anyting about this bar, so opinions are welcome
My hangup on bars is entirely logical because it's the only carbon thing on mountainbikes that gets clamped, which regularly serves as the method and point of failure. Plus you lose a bar, you ARE eating shit, usually very badly. I've ridden out all kinds of broken rims, and a few frames. Everybody sits around and says 'well I've seen both break'. I've seen way more NEW carbon bars broken than AL.
Sometimes you just need to move a brake lever or your bar angle. I'm not carrying around a friggin torque wrench with me everywhere. No one does, no matter how much they look down their noses every time someone breaks a carbon bar and shakes their finger bloviating about 'proper torque'.
Last edited:
Considering that more or less half of those that posted here has seen more than one carbon bar breaking, then the amount of broken carbon bars worldwide should to be big enough to make companies rethink about how convenient is to produce and sell things that broke and hurt people.
Maybe I'm too confident, but I think there has to be a reason why those companies produce and sell those carbon bars, those bars can't be such a killer device.
Maybe I trust those devices too much, but maybe some of you guys are a bit too scared...
By the way, a small hint about your levers and stuff that you clamp on your hadlebar (if you don't already know): use teflon tape, you can tighten the clamp as needed and it will rotate in case you crash. You can even re-adjust the position without tools.
Maybe I'm too confident, but I think there has to be a reason why those companies produce and sell those carbon bars, those bars can't be such a killer device.
Maybe I trust those devices too much, but maybe some of you guys are a bit too scared...
By the way, a small hint about your levers and stuff that you clamp on your hadlebar (if you don't already know): use teflon tape, you can tighten the clamp as needed and it will rotate in case you crash. You can even re-adjust the position without tools.
just bow out quietly and use the god damn bar already since that's all you ever intended to do anyway...
I wonder if there's a chart somewhere that plots risk of needing new teeth vs. reward in grams. I've wondered about this in regards to the Unno frames. Even if I could afford one, would the additional thousands of dollars make me any faster vs. any of the other generic options on the market?
I get the vibration benefits, but there are now good aluminum handlebars that make a difference in that aspect as well. My kore torsions do a much better job than the protaper 7050s I used to run, and the vibrocore are supposedly legit as well. Having a decent fork and good tires with proper air pressure makes an even bigger factor. I guess if you're racing and are in the top 10, maybe it's time to consider lightening up the bike as much as possible?
I get the vibration benefits, but there are now good aluminum handlebars that make a difference in that aspect as well. My kore torsions do a much better job than the protaper 7050s I used to run, and the vibrocore are supposedly legit as well. Having a decent fork and good tires with proper air pressure makes an even bigger factor. I guess if you're racing and are in the top 10, maybe it's time to consider lightening up the bike as much as possible?
Ok, got it
Classic forum manuver! Ask everyone's opinion then argue with them, then ignore them, and then do the opposite of what they recommend.
Meh - no excuse for not having a Tor-Q-wrench in your travel toolbox.
And it is useful for far more than just the Crabonz.
Last edited:
Meh - no excuse for not having a Tor-Q-wrench in your travel toolbox.
And it is useful for far more than just the Crabonz.
TOTALLY trust that thing
Have I offended your mustache?
I need moar happy crabon stories.
Now your just being obstinate.
It is both calibrated and serviceable for re-calibration.
Like all tools - treat it with a bit of respect and it should do its job.
You well know a small change in grip location can equal a large change in applied torque.
It ain't rocket surgery tooling, but it is better than your ham-fisted approach.
Go put some pants on, you are in polite (ahem) company.
Me? Obstinate?
At the end of they day, whether I trust that pocket torquer or not is irrelevant because even 'proper torque' doesn't make what passes for solid manufacturing in the bike industry of plastic bars any more acceptable.
I still wish I had pics of the guy I met in whistler a few years who was friends with the guys I was hanging out with. Half the skin off his face, absolutely purple arms......... Third day on a set of SixC bars he said.
Not even properly calibrated thigh stabbers I'm not going to carry in my pocket anyway make up for the miniscule reasons for owning a carbon handlebar. They actually do serve a purpose though: Putting one one a bike you're about to sell so you can charge $400 more for it and keep your valuable aluminum bars.
At the end of they day, whether I trust that pocket torquer or not is irrelevant because even 'proper torque' doesn't make what passes for solid manufacturing in the bike industry of plastic bars any more acceptable.
I still wish I had pics of the guy I met in whistler a few years who was friends with the guys I was hanging out with. Half the skin off his face, absolutely purple arms......... Third day on a set of SixC bars he said.
Not even properly calibrated thigh stabbers I'm not going to carry in my pocket anyway make up for the miniscule reasons for owning a carbon handlebar. They actually do serve a purpose though: Putting one one a bike you're about to sell so you can charge $400 more for it and keep your valuable aluminum bars.
So your uncle's friend's cousin's brother's dog doesn't know how to choose appropriate components or torques for a carbon bar. Cool story.
Meanwhile your buddy @buckoW and I have run multiples of those bars for multiple seasons now with no worries.
Cost of failure.
I can smash a rim and ride it out.
Likelihood of riding out a plastic bar failure without a dirt nap is too low for the gambler in me.
I know many or MOST carbon bars live a long happy peaceful life, but still it's not worth any perceived benefit.
I can smash a rim and ride it out.
Likelihood of riding out a plastic bar failure without a dirt nap is too low for the gambler in me.
I know many or MOST carbon bars live a long happy peaceful life, but still it's not worth any perceived benefit.
don't be skrd of perpr terk
b-b-but what would @kidwoo and i have to talk about???
see mine-still riding dem bars!
and dammit @kidwoo - you think anyone can’t find pics of buddy’s broken alu bikes and parts? all stuff breaks, eventually, if you ride it hard enough. me, i’ve broken wayyyyyy more alu shit than carbonz shit to date. i’m sure i’ll break some crabonz too. i won’t even be mad tho.
Of course. That's not the point. No one else blames the crashee on anything else ever, made of any other material unless it's crabon bRs. Then it's ALWAYS obviously the prrsn's fault for not using perpr terk. Even though sometimes they actually did use perpr terk.
ima go rage overterk the shit outta my alu stuff. maybe i’ll even tempt the gawds and terk my barz some morez. brb. the only thing i can’t overterk is mah dropper, because then it don’t drop no morez. DAMMIT ONEUP.