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WWIII thread

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,654
3,101
While I think western countries should send MBTs to Ukraine, I also respect Scholz for actually following what the majority of his constituents want. He is the chancellor of Germany and is obliged to execute the will of the German population and not what Ukraine's or Poland's government wants him to do. This is called democracy, something e.g. Poland, Hungary and the US should try, it is great! ;)
 

daisycutter

Turbo Monkey
Apr 8, 2006
1,678
165
New York City
While I think western countries should send MBTs to Ukraine, I also respect Scholz for actually following what the majority of his constituents want. He is the chancellor of Germany and is obliged to execute the will of the German population and not what Ukraine's or Poland's government wants him to do. This is called democracy, something e.g. Poland, Hungary and the US should try, it is great! ;)
If Ukraine loses this war. it will be because of leaders like Scholz who took the easy way out. Ten years from now when Russia is saying Poland and Germany were always part of Russia, who will be willing to help Germany when they themselves showed no resolve when Ukraine was in need?
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,654
3,101
If Ukraine loses this war. it will be because of leaders like Scholz who took the easy way out. Ten years from now when Russia is saying Poland and Germany were always part of Russia, who will be willing to help Germany when they themselves showed no resolve when Ukraine was in need?
It is not like the US is sending any MBTs to Ukraine either. Why not? ;)
A recent calculation showed that Ukraine would need about 300 western MBTs soon-ish. So these 14 Polish and 14 UK tanks can do jack shit. According to Rheinmetall, they have 22 Leopard 2 and 88 Leopard 1 in storage that would need to be refurbished and could first be delivered in 2024. If the US is not stepping in and deliver MBTs, is the limited effect these few tanks will have worth all the political turmoil they cause then? The way I see it at this point: it is an all-or-nothing stragtegy, go big with delivering everything we have to weaken the Russian military so much that they have to accept peace negotiations on Ukrainian terms. This little-here-little-there strategy is not going to cut it unless you want to extend the war for years to come.

What worries me most is that, so far, I have not seen any viable exit strategy from either side. Just pouring in military aid is like you want to extinguish a fire with gasoline. What is the end goal here? A total defeat of Russia? Then the western countries are actually validating Putin's fear of the destruction of Russia. If it is kicking the Russians out of Ukraine, do you really think Russia will accept this and not launch a full (nuclear) attack against all allies of Ukraine?
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,506
In hell. Welcome!
If it is kicking the Russians out of Ukraine, do you really think Russia will accept this and not launch a full (nuclear) attack against all allies of Ukraine?
Boo fucking hoo. Still having wet dreams about the soviet revolution?

In the meanwhile, the nations that experienced and understand the threat of unmitigated russian aggresion do their part.
 

Sandro

Terrified of Cucumbers
Nov 12, 2006
3,227
2,539
The old world
Why did no one tell me we where having plebiscites on these issues? The public is split pretty evenly on the issue, that’s where some actual leadership would come in. Given that the country has been living a in a blissfully complacent state of smug pseudo pacifism under a US security umbrella for decades, 50/50 is actually rather encouraging. And it would be sooo easy to justify given Germany‘s and Russia’s crimes in these very lands and the irreparable damage being done to the country’s alliances and international standing. Historical responsibility and all that jazz.

Sure, the US‘s reasons for not delivering Abrams are bs as well, but they’ve been rather forthcoming with some other hardware, as has been most of Eastern Europe and the Baltics. And if you’re still going to pussy out, at least grant export licenses for those countries not inhabited by your unconvincing concerns.

I still expect Scholz to reverse course when sufficient bridges have been burnt.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,873
20,740
Sleazattle
Why did no one tell me we where having plebiscites on these issues? The public is split pretty evenly on the issue, that’s where some actual leadership would come in. Given that the country has been living a in a blissfully complacent state of smug pseudo pacifism under a US security umbrella for decades, 50/50 is actually rather encouraging. And it would be sooo easy to justify given Germany‘s and Russia’s crimes in these very lands and the irreparable damage being done to the country’s alliances and international standing. Historical responsibility and all that jazz.
Even if it is the public's will, it is the waffling, excuse making, and generally hiding behind the US's skirt that just stinks of weakness in leadership and invites mocking. And that has been consistent beyond the subject of tanks. Not only is it a bad look for Germany it gives Russia fuel to think it can generate chaos and mistrust between NATO allies and more likely to achieve its goals.

US excuses for not sending Abrams isn't strong enough to prevent sending them, but it is the inferior option. Poland has started to buy them and will need to set up the complex logistics required of them. The US should give them more Abrams to replace their Soviet and German inventory that can be given to Ukraine.

Does the German military not have an ERP system where they can just look up their inventory without a public display of clip board carriers hunting through people't attics pressuring Sholz to make a decision?

 
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iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,654
3,101
Even if it is the public's will, it is the waffling, excuse making, and generally hiding behind the US's skirt that just stinks of weakness in leadership and invites mocking. And that has been consistent beyond the subject of tanks. Not only is it a bad look for Germany it gives Russia fuel to think it can generate chaos and mistrust between NATO allies and more likely to achieve its goals.

Does the German military not have an ERP system where they can just look up their inventory without a public display of clip board carriers hunting through people't attics pressuring Sholz to make a decision?

It is actually Rheinmetall that owns the older generation tanks that potentially will be delivered. Same deal as when you trade in your used car. So not sure that the military has access to all that info.

Germany generating chaos and mistrust between NATO allies? Are you kidding? You know that the current polish government is so anti-german that they demand reparations just to get reelected?

Which is bogus, as this has been settled with the 1990 Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany that the Polish government never objected against.

At the same time they dismantel their democracy and have a political direction that is right-winged Republican/fundamental Christian and anti-EU. Them, Hungary and other Eastern European countries did not help at all with the Syrian refugee crisis because....you know....muslims. Just because they now do good things for Ukraine does not make them saints.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,873
20,740
Sleazattle
It is actually Rheinmetall that owns the older generation tanks that potentially will be delivered. Same deal as when you trade in your used car. So not sure that the military has access to all that info.

Germany generating chaos and mistrust between NATO allies? Are you kidding? You know that the current polish government is so anti-german that they demand reparations just to get reelected?

Which is bogus, as this has been settled with the 1990 Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany that the Polish government never objected against.

At the same time they dismantel their democracy and have a political direction that is right-winged Republican/fundamental Christian and anti-EU. Them, Hungary and other Eastern European countries did not help at all with the Syrian refugee crisis because....you know....muslims. Just because they now do good things for Ukraine does not make them saints.

Say what you will, it least it is an ethos.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,654
3,101
NSDAP called, it wants its bad propaganda back.
Funny that you are calling others names. Your posts on here when you spread hate towards Russians, celebrate videos where Russians get killed in and taking a no-compromise stand against anything Russian sounds a lot how Nazis have portrait the "enemy". There is nothing to cheer about when people get killed, even if it is people you do not like. Generalizations about races and nations never led to positive things. ;)
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,654
3,101
Say what you will, it least it is an ethos.
Yeah, they care about free travel in the EU and subsidies to their economy. But hey, democratic European spirit is not important as long as they get the money.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,506
In hell. Welcome!
Funny that you are calling others names. Your posts on here when you spread hate towards Russians, celebrate videos where Russians get killed in and taking a no-compromise stand against anything Russian sounds a lot how Nazis have portrait the "enemy". There is nothing to cheer about when people get killed, even if it is people you do not like. Generalizations about races and nations never led to positive things. ;)
You sound *exactly* like my russian friend who lives a comfy life outside of russia, who keeps using European values as an argument ad absurdum when talking about the lives of common russian nowadays, who instantly descends into whataboutism and the bads of generalizations against her people, but who has done exactly nothing in her entire life to change the course of her nation or country. But hey, she gives me at least five quotes from russian poets and writers about the plight of russia everytime we meet, because that apparently absolves the russians from any responsibility for their own destiny.

I'll be cheering for every dead russian aggressor and rapist on the UKR land and hope that the country that is so dear to you ceases to exist as we've known it for centuries, for the better of this world, soon.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,654
3,101
I'll be cheering for every dead russian aggressor and rapist on the UKR land and hope that the country that is so dear to you ceases to exist as we've known it for centuries, for the better of this world, soon.
Wow dude! :eek: You are as fucked up as the Russians. :disgust1:
Killing humans is never something to celebrate, no matter what they have done. Otherwise you are morally not better than them.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,506
In hell. Welcome!
Wow dude! :eek: You are as fucked up as the Russians. :disgust1:
Killing humans is never something to celebrate, no matter what they have done. Otherwise you are morally not better than them.
Every dead russian soldier or mercenary == hundreds or thousands of saved Ukraininan lives that would have been ruined by russkie genocide otherwise. The russians have a choice to leave and go home, the Ukrainians don't.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,654
3,101
Every dead russian soldier or mercenary == hundreds or thousands of saved Ukraininan lives that would have been ruined by russkie genocide otherwise. The russians have a choice to leave and go home, the Ukrainians don't.
Maybe you want to check your math here. ;)
1:1000 seems to be pretty good killing rate for the incompetent Russians.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,654
3,101
You know damn well that's not why
My English might be failing me, but:
"I'll be cheering for every dead russian aggressor and rapist on the UKR land and hope that the country that is so dear to you ceases to exist as we've known it for centuries, for the better of this world, soon."

You might disagree, but killing humans is never a solution to anything!!!
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
My English might be failing me, but:
"I'll be cheering for every dead russian aggressor and rapist on the UKR land and hope that the country that is so dear to you ceases to exist as we've known it for centuries, for the better of this world, soon."

You might disagree, but killing humans is never a solution to anything!!!
You're ignoring the important part there bud

iderp.JPG



"As we've known it" belies a pretty specific history and pattern that includes some of the most brutal, murderous and imperialistic events in all of human history. That's the part that needs to stop. That doesn't mean indiscriminate genocide. That's what russians do.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,403
846
My English might be failing me, but:
"I'll be cheering for every dead russian aggressor and rapist on the UKR land and hope that the country that is so dear to you ceases to exist as we've known it for centuries, for the better of this world, soon."

You might disagree, but killing humans is never a solution to anything!!!
OK, I'll bite...

Do I understand correctly that you suggest that the whole world should collectively let Russians go along with the organized murder, torture and rape of innocent Ukrainian civilans and let them succeed with their horribly violent aggression of a neighbor country (100% based on laughable false pretexts)...just because killing people is bad mmmkay?
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,506
In hell. Welcome!
When I read through iRider's posts, I am seeing russian troll farm bingo, accusing others of what the orcs have been doing. Maskirovka 101.
 
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