[The Toninator]

What’s the real problem? Exposure. There is really no way to see the battles that happen on the course the way people are currently covering the races. So there’s no one seeing the sponsors advertising.
What’s the answer? Camera’s on the bikes like in auto racing. All the racers (Pro’s) should be required to carry a camera and a transmitter making the weight penalty the same for everyone. Some courses and types of racing already have to set up repeaters for walkie talkies so why not just do it for the cameras? This would give you coverage of the whole course.
We have the technology to make this work. Lipstick cams on helmets. This way we can ride along with the racers like in auto racing and see the excitement as it’s played out. Also get those tall camera cranes like they do I golf. That would give you a bird’s eye view of specific sections of the course and a more steady view.

 

[Andyman_1970]

What’s the real problem? Exposure. There is really no way to see the battles that happen on the course the way people are currently covering the races. So there’s no one seeing the sponsors advertising.

I would say you've answered your own question. I think the problem is that XC racing is releativly a niche markey compared to Golf and such and thus not a huge revenue pool to attract.

 

[Ciaran]

I would say you've answered your own question. I think the problem is that XC racing is releativly a niche markey compared to Golf and such and thus not a huge revenue pool to attract.

Yup, and if you were the corporate big wig deciding where to spend your dollars what would you rather sponsor? Golf? A game that you and all your corporate buddies play, where you'll get to meet the pro golfers and maybe play a few rounds with them. Or Cycling? Something that your fat lazy corporate ass would never do, and that you could care less about.

 

[PoserNewbie]

Dont mean to sound harsh or anything but not matter how you spin it, XC racing is just plain boring. There's no sense of speed involve in XC racing. Heck, tour de france is 100x more exciting than XC racing. It is somewhat sad but IMO mountain biking has evolved into another niche xtreme sport. Even DH racing is struggling these days. More companies are investing their money in freeridng (big air, jumps, etc) because there is more exposure.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Just sack up and face it now. MTB is a particpant sport, not a spectator sport.

The only people that care about it are already involved, hence just about eliminating the need for advertising at races.

 

[Heidi]

Just sack up and face it now. MTB is a particpant sport, not a spectator sport.

The only people that care about it are already involved, hence just about eliminating the need for advertising at races.

I agree somewhat and am intrigued by the thought. Why isn't it more of a spectator sport...can it be made into more of one? Road racing in Europe is huge and there are a lot of spectators!!

I'll volunteer for the camera wearing!!!

 

[Yossarian]

Yup, and if you were the corporate big wig deciding where to spend your dollars what would you rather sponsor? Golf? A game that you and all your corporate buddies play, where you'll get to meet the pro golfers and maybe play a few rounds with them. Or Cycling? Something that your fat lazy corporate ass would never do, and that you could care less about.

CMO's spend their marketing dollars on Golf because of the viewership, demographics and spending habits of golfers. Although it may seem like it, not every product or service is marketed through golf. Marketing dollars are spent where statistics show the buyer is located. Fat corporate bigwigs don't spend marketing budgets on golf, so that they can golf, but because they do golf. Golf is viewer friendly, Golf is broadcast friendly, golf has a huge following, Golfers spend lots of money on golf (and I would venture to say they spend a lot more on golf than mtn bikers do on mtn bikes, as an entire industry).

I was working on a large marketing program this summer and the client was/is an avid mountain biker, but guess what, we sponsored music venues, because there is no consistent mtn bike venue to reach the number of consumers needed to make a non moutnain bike oriented product program successful.

 

[Carbon Fetish]

I still would rather buy a DH race video over an XC race video.

 

[jdcamb]

All that costs money. Who is going to pay for it. The sponsors? Lets face it, as the current crop of racers age, there aren't any younger racers coming into the sport. That to me is the biggest problem. Teams don't have the resources to develope talent. No talent, no competition, no sponsors, no racing. Sad.....jdcamb

 

[SkaredShtles]

I *love* riding XC. And there is nothing more boring, IMO, than trying to watch a XC race.

Watching DH is only *slightly* more entertaining.

Well, I guess golf, basketball, football, and baseball would be exceptions to this.

-S.S.-

 

[narlus]

ESPN is adding Hill Climbing to their prime time schedule.

 

[Ridemonkey]

I agree somewhat and am intrigued by the thought. Why isn't it more of a spectator sport...can it be made into more of one?

I suggested a new race format a couple years ago - if you remember the thread. Most people thought it was great but a few current racers thought it was blasphemy that I would suggest a change to the current format.

Anyway, until a group of people get together and start something new, nothing will ever change.

Here's an opp for me to say it again: professional short track MTB is the friggen dumbest thing ever. Who wants to watch that crap? Sponsors sure as heck aren't getting their moneys worth on that event.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I agree somewhat and am intrigued by the thought. Why isn't it more of a spectator sport...can it be made into more of one?

That is a great ?, I have no answer. Why does curling get more tv coverage? How are there 47 fishing shows on during the day on the weekend, aren't those people ACTUALLY out fishing? I have no idea how the TV markets work anymore. Except for Scrubs & Gator Football, my TV is on 1 of 4 stations Discovery, OLN, Speed and Spike TV

Road racing in Europe is huge and there are a lot of spectators!!

Here is something interesting. Look how big Soccer is in Europe compared to Cycling. Now look how big Soccer is in the US compared to Cycling. Now given that analogy think about how it is just recently the US market has been seeing soccer on TV (even though it is still RARE). Now I wonder how long it will be before we start to see rare glimpses of true Cycling coverage in the US? That isn't even touching the whole submarket of XC racing specifically but still....

And continue....

 

[The Toninator]

I agree somewhat and am intrigued by the thought. Why isn't it more of a spectator sport...can it be made into more of one? Road racing in Europe is huge and there are a lot of spectators!!

I'll volunteer for the camera wearing!!!

if you can bring the race to the viewers, not just a few stagnant fixed positions but the racers going head to head, it WILL be a hit.
The action of people going head to head on crazy technical courses rubbing tires, passing getting passed, cursing then blowing up or blowing the competition would capture any sport enthusiasts attention
And when you do this for a series people will find a rider they like for what ever reason and watch and follow it.
I like watching road racing because we get to see the whole thing.
People that actually attend road races are different bread.

 

[Heidi]

Aaron, I'd totally race one of your courses, they bring skills back into play instead of mostly fitness with a little skill.

As for the Pro ST, that defintely has the most spectators than probably any other event because people don't have to go anywhere. They don't have to hike up or take the lift, it always takes place at the base of the mountain. When I race it, the course is lined with people cheering. I think they are cheering more for a crash, but who cares, they are making noise.

 

[McGRP01]

Put Lance on a MTB and see how many tune in. Heck, I even watch the Tour de Georgia because he's in it.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Put Lance on a MTB and see how many tune in. Heck, I even watch the Tour de Georgia because he's in it.

What a great thing that would be for MTB if he decided to seriously take up competitive MTB after he won his 7th tour.

 

[Heidi]

What a great thing that would be for MTB if he decided to seriously take up competitive MTB after he won his 7th tour.

Yah awesome, then I could be lapped by Lance! :dancing:

 

[Ridemonkey]

Whoa we are talking about lap dances now??

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Whoa we are talking about lap dances now??

From Heidi no less! :dancing:

 

[Heidi]

Whoa we are talking about lap dances now??

Perhaps that's the answer to declining sponsorship.

 

[JMAC]

There's more money in road cycling cause it has a MUCH larger audience, and is WAY more exciting to watch. In all honesty I race XC but it's the most boring thing to watch... now road racing that exciting, always new people winning and more racers. The racers in road are more entertaining imo, also mountain biking is always done in remote location, off at ski resorts.

 

[The Toninator]

There's more money in road cycling cause it has a MUCH larger audience, and is WAY more exciting to watch. In all honesty I race XC but it's the most boring thing to watch... now road racing that exciting, always new people winning and more racers. The racers in road are more entertaining imo, also mountain biking is always done in remote location, off at ski resorts.

god you people just arnt reading.

 

[dhtahoe]

Well from what I can see is the show is gone. The naked crit, the rider introductions, the hype. It's all gone now. EVERYTHING used to be a huge deal. I remember the Tomac/Overend battles and how much they got hyped. You WANTED to go watch them race. Our sport has no heros anymore. These battles still happen. We just can't remember a guy with 20 letters in his name from a different country. It's the same for both DH/XC. The organizers with their want to make it more competitive have made it boring. When american mountain bike racing becomes about americans the money will return. All the ex-roadies are going back to Europe now that they have run the well dry. This trend did the most damage for sure. I'm sure these teams are getting wise to this. In the past years the team managers have hired a bunch of unapproachable pricks who never come out of their trailer. It does nothing for the "image" of our sport. Wander by the Santa Cruz pit sometime... all the riders are chilln', doing some bench racing, hangn' out having fun.

 

[-BB-]

I was working on a large marketing program this summer and the client was/is an avid mountain biker, but guess what, we sponsored music venues, because there is no consistent mtn bike venue to reach the number of consumers needed to make a non moutnain bike oriented product program successful.

Yes you can... YOu may reach less people, but you just spend less.

 

[Hello Kitty]

www.cycling.tv

go here and you can watch DH / DS / XC racing although I’m bias toward XC racing it’s BORING to watch compared to the others just like Baseball is boring to watch compared to Hockey. What I get a charge out of watching the XC stuff is to see how the race unfolds while they do a bazillion 3 mile loops. XC racing is a participant sport and an endurance sport at that although I personally feel endurance sports are a lot harder than some team crap where you get a commercial break every 5 minutes and it’s all about sheer power than stamina.

What it all boils down to is perception of value and the sponsors are not getting sold this therefore they take their advertising dollars elsewhere and that’s why MTB racing is having a hard time right now. Maybe if some one came up with and idea on how to combine all the elements of 24hour races XC racing regular and marathon along with the DH and DS stuff for a action packed weekend of everything to get maximum exposure then maybe the advertisers will get it and come back again to put some sponsorship money out again. MTB racing needs another Shawn Palmer and Ned Overend for 2005.

 

[PsychO!1]

....also mountain biking is always done in remote location, off at ski resorts.

Any mountain stage in tour seems to do pretty well....and their pretty remote, probably even more remote that a destination ski resort.

 

[JMAC]

Any mountain stage in tour seems to do pretty well....and their pretty remote, probably even more remote that a destination ski resort.

Well yes in a way.....take Mount Saint Anne for example only international airport is in Montreal which is a 3 hour drive from MSA. The fact is the mountian stages are still on the road so it's easy for people to watch.

 

[sanjuro]

XC racing is becoming more and more like road racing. For example, last year at the Infineon Raceway, someone won the short track on a road bike.

I think cameras on the bikes is not going to work, either. The POV shots on most DH videos do not convey the difficulty of the stunt (or give me nausea from the bouncing around). And XC lacks the stunts.

Frankly, I think most of the big XC races lack challenge to capture my interest. Most of them are circuits on fireroads and smooth singletrack. And when you remove the team aspect which is part of the peleton, then it really loses my interest.

I do not think there is a quick-fix answer to improving XC sponsorship in America (Europeans like cycling like Americans like football, so any variant seems to do well there). Personally, I rather see more exciting races. Make short track into a bmx track, with woops, drops, and berms. If bigger bikes and body armor are required, so be it.

I think with classic XC, I think the Epic aspect needs to be inserted. Who cares about doing a loop. It is as exciting as a watch a criterium. I like the marathon races, where more could go wrong.

I think a perfect example for an Epic XC race is the Downieville Classic:

http://downievilleclassic.com/pages/xc.html

4,400’ ascent with 5,700’ descent on a point-to-point
26 mile race. Not exactly spectator friendly, but an amazing race. Especially when you consider that the descent is on the same course as the downhill race!

 

[indieboy]

i think the new director of the UCI brought up some good points concerning the decline in sponsorship towards mtn biking in an interview he did with velonews reguarding the new pit rules for XC. basically stated that sponsors got sick of the russian roullete that pro XC racing is. sponsors hate hearing "oh my derailuer broke, i couldn't finish the race....." they dont like hearing stuff like that. blame em?

 

[Carbon Fetish]

 

[indieboy]

that will always crack me up
funny thing is, get a few of em drunk enough and they just might

 

[Skookum]

funny pic.

That is awesome.........

 

[blue]

All that costs money. Who is going to pay for it. The sponsors? Lets face it, as the current crop of racers age, there aren't any younger racers coming into the sport. That to me is the biggest problem. Teams don't have the resources to develope talent. No talent, no competition, no sponsors, no racing. Sad.....jdcamb

Yep. My age level in my local race series (17-18), including beg/sport/exp usually totals around 15ish. The 19-29 guys triple that number, with 30-39s having about 1/2 more than then, and then the 40+ more than 30-39s. The young talent is being drawn into FR and DH. Hell, I'm even turned off by how roadie-like and elitist XC racing is. Hence, I'm more inclined to race 24 Hour and Marathon (Hey, I'm better at those anyways), but sponsors for those suck, although more sponsors seem to be impressed that you do solo 24 hour and marathon races rather than prance about flaunting your pinky on an XC or ST course

 

[sanjuro]

i think the new director of the UCI brought up some good points concerning the decline in sponsorship towards mtn biking in an interview he did with velonews reguarding the new pit rules for XC. basically stated that sponsors got sick of the russian roullete that pro XC racing is. sponsors hate hearing "oh my derailuer broke, i couldn't finish the race....." they dont like hearing stuff like that. blame em?

I have no problem catering to the bike companies. They are the bread and butter of the bike racing, and if the rules need to change, so be it.

But keep in mind, the big dollar sponsors are not the bike companies, but the non-bike companies. Who do we need to cater to, Trek and Specialized, or Jeep and Subaru?

I think bike companies will always be involved with racing. But convincing car companies and other businesses is more difficult.

The typical sales points for bike racing is how many people ride bikes and that it is the largest outdoor sport in terms of participants. I always think this is a specious argument because majority of those bikes are Muffys, not $2000 XC bikes.

The reason why road racing, and I mean Lance Armstrong, is so popular is not just because he is an amazing rider. He did something most people could never imagine doing, recovering from cancer to become the greatest American rider.

Even though his remission is old news, people are still amazed at the difficult of the Tour De France. The high speeds, the long distances over 3 weeks, and the crashes fascinate people.

How does this translate to XC? Well, making the races easier is not going to win people over.

 

[indieboy]

the statement wasn't directed towards the big bike companie concerning sponsorships. it was directed at the big sponsors like audi, subaru, coke, maipei (yes they had a mtn bike team back in the day), etc.

 

[Hello Kitty]

Yep. My age level in my local race series (17-18), including beg/sport/exp usually totals around 15ish. The 19-29 guys triple that number, with 30-39s having about 1/2 more than then, and then the 40+ more than 30-39s.

WoW a 10 year gap in classes your numbers sound like what the WOMENS classes are like here in Texas. We have a 5 year gap in age classes here from beg., sport and sometimes expert classes a few years back we had 96 racers show up for the mens 35-39 sport class at a state series race.

although the attendance is WAY down from what it was a few years ago we still get 400 - 600 racers at events however it's been a while since we hit the 1000 racer mark of many years ago. since we don't have a big DH & DS thing here in Texas i can't say that we are losing many to that stuff.

i have noticed a lot of talented Jr. racers switching over to road racing and track racing and leaving mtb racing all together.

in the past Texas racing has had series sponsers of Ford and Subaru and BMW (however the reniged later) but now we are still looking for a series sponser to step up to the plate again.

 

[The Toninator]

in the past Texas racing has had series sponsers of Ford and Subaru and BMW (however the reniged later) but now we are still looking for a series sponser to step up to the plate again.

hahahah true but in BMW's defense somebody on our end dropped that ball.
'BMX M3.'

 

[JMAC]

Well provincial races here have about 60 riders just in Cadet and maybe 35 Junoir expert and the same for junior sport. Don;t really have local races so I wouldn;t know. One thing I notice here is we have huge numbers of little kids who go into Cadet 15-16 but by junior age they seem to start disappearing, even I did that I wonder why........