[shagwell]

okay ive done a load of searching and found loads of useful info, but there are a few things i need to specifically know..

at the moment i`m running hayes hfx9s which ive been pretty happy with up untill using them in france this year where although working great most of the week i was there started to be a little inconsistent towards the end of my time there.

so i`m now considering a new brakeset for next year as i`m planning on dividing my time between morzine/les gets/whistler so i need a SUPER DEPENDABLE brakeset not really bothered about "feel" i just wanna know that they will work with no fade on the LONG downhills.. so.. while searching i found some good feedback on the xt/saint lever/caliper combo but i need to know from people who actually ride big courses with these brakes are they reliable? do they fade at all?

i also like to run my levers inboard as far as possible so that i can just about use the one finger to brake and have the bite set real close to the bars. are the xt levers suitable for this kind of set up as they seem a little short?

...or... do i go for hayes mags with the g2 caliper?

 

[MikeD]

Buy new Hayes Mag levers for your existing brakes. The calipers on the 9s and the Mags are the same. Mags are the most consistent brakes I've ever run. I've run Hopes almost exclusively for 4 years prior to switching to Hayes. Haven't run the new Hope monos, though.

Shimanos seem to be pretty nice, too, but I only ran mine for a few weeks before trading them for some Hopes. Wish I'd given them more of a chance. So, yeah, didn't mean to derail your thread, but I just wanted to let you know you could improve your brakes without needing a whole new brake system.

You can get aftermarket levers for either your Hayes or Shimanos to help adjust the feel and bite. If you look at the 'razor rock lever' thread that's going right now, there are Hayes levers with adjustable bite points being made right now.

MD

 

[mack]

the only brakes i ride are Shimano or Grimeca. Everything else is too time consuming too blead and just crappy quality controll. Except i do like the avid cable brakes also. Dont like the Juicys.

I think hayes is possible the worst company out there and just some how happens to own the market in this catergory.

EDIT, u want a brake thatll last on long DH's? My grimeca system 12's own this catergory, as they are super awesome on DH's of about 3k vertical feet in 13 minutes.... they deal with heat extremely well, the only problem is that u have to space out your rotar, but this is no biggy at all. they come with spacers.

 

[shagwell]

yea i`d thought about putting the mag levers on my existing calipers but by the time ive bought new levers i could near enough have bought the complete xt/saint brakeset and then sell my hayes nines therefore not costing me too much to switch. (mag levers are £70 each uk price and i can get the xt/saint setup for £99)

i just need some people with some real time on real courses running the xt/saints to let me know that theyre reliable and dont fade.

if theyre not i`ll stick with hayes..

 

[shagwell]

mack.. what problems have you had with hayes then?

have you used the xt/saint system? opinion?

 

[J5ive]

I used to ride hayes. Both hfx9s on my hardtail and mags on my dh rig. When it came time to build a new bike I was soo sick of the cost of spare parts for hayes. A few crashes had caused me to have to buy levers/rotors/caliper halves- and I dunno what the prices are like in the USA, but here in australia they are a ****ing joke. So I switched to shimano. I never understood what was wrong with my hayes performace. They worked for me no worries. But as soon as I fitted 04 xts, it was apparent. Hayes suck. Its all about lever feel. When it comes to the crunch- you have a split second to decide how much brake to apply. The xt lets to feel it and control it. Not that you can't do the same with hayes- it just takes allot more refined braking technique- that personally, being the hack i am, I do not have...

Go shimano, you wont look back.

 

[J5ive]

oh -- and fade? whats that. The power is there with my shimano xt/saint, first time- everytime. Very consistant- top to bottom.

 

[mack]

Well, to begin with hayes....

go-ride was outa avid lever or somthing, and i really needed to get my new bike up, so i said, ill just get a set of hayes, every 1 has them, how bad can they be?

very bad, got the set. worked fine for 3 days. then the rear one died. So i bled it, their the ****ing most bitchiest things to bleed in the world. So after 4 bleeds, i squeeze the lever and the ****ing hose burts. turns out, the hoses arent even steel belted like grimeca's, wich are very similar to michelin hoses and are steel belted and rated for pressure in inches, around the neighborhood of a 1000 somthing... any way.

go-ride sends me a new hose, install it, then the bleed valve leaks and is broken, so end of story i paid for a rear hayes brake that is just sitting on the workbench... never again...

 

[mack]

yes, either shimano or grimeca, both operate the same way, and both are gravity bleedable.

I would get the system 12's if u want more power, and are running very long DH runs.
or if u want to somtime in the future transfer brakes w/o the whole inegrated hub thing.

I would get shimano if ur running shorter DH runs and dont mind the integrated disc/rotar stuff.

both are direct hits.

 

[shagwell]

so what sort of descents are we talking about with no fade with the shimano system? i need to know that my brakes are gonna be working consistenly for 10-15 minutes full on..

i`m not too worrried about feel to be honest, a lot of people seem to moan about hayes feel but i get on fine with em, i rarely drag the brakes and only use them when neccersary so the "on/off" feel of hayes works just fine for me.

 

[shagwell]

I would get shimano if ur running shorter DH runs and dont mind the integrated disc/rotar stuff.
QUOTE]

u can use standard rotors with the shimanos so it doesnt make any difference. are the shimanos only good for shorter dhs then? whats the difference between the grimeca and the shimano?

cheers..

 

[J5ive]

hehe, that was exactly my argument before shimano.

We have a steep 20min dh run here and they are consistant all the way for me.

Mack- I never had a problem with bleeding hayes. Except the first attempt when I had no idea what I was doing. I also had problems the first time I tried to bleed the shimanos. In the end the manual holds all the answers, dont think your above it for one second!

And I'm using the 8" XT IS 6 bolt rotors no worries with 04 brakes.

I think the problem with grimica would be parts availability. Everyshop can get shimano pretty quickly! Grimica isnt even imported here in australia. Shimano originally bought the design of the older 4 pots from grimica I beleive? But the new 04 stuff is all of their own. And god nows they've had plenty of time to perfect it.

 

[MikeD]

Hm, that's funny...95% of the rest of us have no problem with Hayes.

I went to Hayes due to the inconsistent performance of my several sets of Hopes, and the lack of a positive ability to bleed them...gravity bleeding always left me with the possibility that there was air somewhere in the line. Especially with the Enduros, where there's this ball-bearing sized pocket of air that tends to hide in the caliper...have to undo the thing from the frame and turn it over and around to get it out.

With Hayes, the ease of bleeding using a syringe is incredible. No mess, no fuss, fast, easy, and 100% proof positive you've got no air in there.

Hayes have been dead reliable in operation for me and all of my friends, including some semi-pro riders, especially compared to Hopes.

Just goes to show you can't judge a product from one person's experience. A lot of this is how well a product fits with your personal quirks, or a bad experience with quality control on an individual item. My most recent Hayes purchase left me with a brake that spewed fluid from under the bleed nipple...some sort of bad interface in the threads of the caliper and the nipple. if it had been my first brake, I'd have been really upset with Hayes. As it was, it took a week for them to send it to me all fixed up.

MD

 

[shagwell]

We have a steep 20min dh run here and they are consistant all the way for me.

And I'm using the 8" XT IS 6 bolt rotors no worries with 04 brakes.

cool thats what i needed to know cheers.. so are yours the 2 pots the same as the saints? and you`d defo reccomend them above the hayes?

 

[GravityFreakTJ]

Have had no problems with my Hayes at all. Ran Hope M4's on my Evil but when they decided they wanted to squeal,they SQUEALED...............and SQUEALED..............and SQUEALED.......................switched back to Hayes. Nice and quiet

 

[zedro]

how long have you been ruuning the brake fluid for? old fluid and non-optimal bleeding will result in brake fade as the whole system retains heat. The soltuion can be as easy as a rebuild

 

[MikeD]

how long have you been ruuning the brake fluid for? old fluid and non-optimal bleeding will result in brake fade as the whole system retains heat. The soltuion can be as easy as a rebuild

I think the bike industry has dispatched a hit-ninja your way.

Beware flying chainrings...lest you suffer the awful fate of Tippie in Kranked 3 (besides just being in the movie...)

MD

 

[zedro]

I think the bike industry has dispatched a hit-ninja your way.

Beware flying chainrings...lest you suffer the awful fate of Tippie in Kranked 3 (besides just being in the movie...)

MD

lol...this is what i hate about this place. Instead of helping people troubleshoot what could be simple and inexpensive problems, people instead convince to shell out 700$ for a new brake-set they may not even need, just because its favored by all the product whoring going on

 

[mack]

apparently DOT fluid evaporates and breaks down chemically with oxygen, am i right Zedro?

YEs, i think shimano is the best desizion given ur in the land down under.

Any one have any advise for me to do with this rear hayes brake. It has the same problem mikeD first brake had, it leaks oil in the caliper.

 

[zedro]

apparently DOT fluid evaporates and breaks down chemically with oxygen, am i right Zedro?

dont know about that, but the main problem is it absorbs moisture over time, which can give the braking equivalent to air in the lines over time and can expand when heated.

Its not even recommended to use fluid from an un-sealed bottle for this reason.

 

[J5ive]

Sure you could rebleed the system, fit new pads, play with levers, maybe cables. In the in your performance increase is only going to be 10-20%. Sell the brakes, spend the same money, maybe slightly more to get new brakes and your performance increase is going to be allot higher. Believe me I used to be a hayes monkey. Shimano have changed the way I look at brakes.

Oh and theres no way your looking at $700. You can use deore levers instead of the shimanos which keeps the costs down.

from jensonusa.com
brakes 230
xt levers 58
rotors 60
cables 42
bleed kit 11

= a pissy $400

oh the saints are exactly the same as the XT. The even cheaper option is the new LX. Which are the same as the hone I believe?

Sell the old hayes for $150ish? (no idea of the US 2nd hard market) and you have yourself a new set of decent brakes for $250.

 

[erikkellison]

Good, no one said it yet. Get the GRC levers for the Shimano brakes! That's a no brainer, they rock. I don't even need them, but if you want an even more amazing brake than XT's (I run '03 dual piston w/ standard levers), get the levers. You can always get Goodridge lines if you feel necessary, but I think that's plain overkill. I suggest you check out GRC...

 

[mack]

whats the big deal with these pricey levers? no way im wasting 75 bucks on some lever, rather spend that on a homemade tubless system.

 

[zedro]

.... rather spend that on a homemade tubless system.

and still have enough for a case of beer and a half-price hooker....

 

[MikeD]

whats the big deal with these pricey levers? no way im wasting 75 bucks on some lever, rather spend that on a homemade tubless system.

Hayes stock levers cost about the same, sometimes more. For those of us who want a spare set in the toolbox, it's not absurd to buy a nice set and toss the stocks aside as a spare.

I don't want a 4-day bike trip ruined because I bent a lever and there's no shop for 100 miles, or the LBS doesn't carry them.

MD

 

[J]

how long have you been ruuning the brake fluid for? old fluid and non-optimal bleeding will result in brake fade as the whole system retains heat. The soltuion can be as easy as a rebuild

Is a rebuild easy? I have some Hayes Purples with the older style G1 caliper and an curious on how to rebuild them. Is it easy without special tools? They fade after a couple runs. -J

 

[BikeFan84]

everyone who thinks that the Saint Calipers are dependable are correct, but I will stand behind Hopes for a long @$$ time.....The new mono calipers are all amaizing neaky:

 

[dlb]

Is weight an issue? The Shimano's weigh about 550g with a 8" rotor and adapter vs a M6 at about 520g's. Dont know how they compare yet, my old set Mono M4's felt great, just hated the squealing, the M4 brakes should be about 150g's lighter than the XT/Saints.