Quantcast

XXL (62+) bikes

Discussion in 'Road & Cyclocross' started by stoney, Jun 9, 2012.

  1. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

    Rep/Likes:
    119 / 1,155
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,483
    Location:
    Colorado
    I am trying to pick up a new roadie that fits a bit better. So far the only bike I have found big enough is the Specialized Roubaix XXL (64cm). A 61cm TT has proven to be too short, so that eliminates most 61cm frames. Can anybody think of other manufacturers that make huge carbon frames?

    Out:
    Giant
    Cannondale
    Look
    Orbea
    Felt
    Trek
    Scott
     
    #1 -   Jun 9, 2012

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. Wumpus

    Wumpus makes avatars better

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 153
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,170
    Location:
    Six Shooter Junction
    Why haven't you bought the Roubaix then?
     
    #2 -   Jun 9, 2012
  3. Wumpus

    Wumpus makes avatars better

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 153
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,170
    Location:
    Six Shooter Junction
  4. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

    Rep/Likes:
    119 / 1,155
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,483
    Location:
    Colorado
    The frame is $2099 new, complete $3499. That's really f*ing expensive. I'm just trying to look at my other options.
     
    #4 -   Jun 9, 2012
  5. SuspectDevice

    SuspectDevice Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 28
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3,951
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    How tall are you?
     
  6. IH8Rice

    IH8Rice I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!

    Rep/Likes:
    62 / 485
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2008
    Messages:
    24,856
    Location:
    Im over here now
    Cdale makes a 63 but if youre really tall, it really wont work. its also hard to compare Giant's frames since they are compacts and their largest is 58.5cm and still not ideal for really tall folks.
     
  7. Wumpus

    Wumpus makes avatars better

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 153
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,170
    Location:
    Six Shooter Junction
    The Roubaix Apex comes in 64 and should be around $2200 or less complete.

    If you want the SL3 frame, that is going to cost a bit more.
     
    #7 -   Jun 10, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2012
  8. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

    Rep/Likes:
    119 / 1,155
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,483
    Location:
    Colorado
    That explains why the first Roubaix I looked at was $1800 complete... Time to dig a bit more.

    I'm 6'4".
     
  9. Wumpus

    Wumpus makes avatars better

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 153
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,170
    Location:
    Six Shooter Junction
    Four levels of frames from Specialized. The base(8r carbon), the SL3(10r?) and the SL4(close enough to the Sworks -200 grams or so heavier) and the Sworks.
     
  10. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

    Rep/Likes:
    119 / 1,155
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,483
    Location:
    Colorado
    Confirmed today, they only make the 64 in expert+ levels
     
  11. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

    Rep/Likes:
    119 / 1,155
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,483
    Location:
    Colorado
    GT is out.
    Any other ideas?
     
  12. Wumpus

    Wumpus makes avatars better

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 153
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,170
    Location:
    Six Shooter Junction
  13. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

    Rep/Likes:
    119 / 1,155
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,483
    Location:
    Colorado
    Yeah... the shop guy showed me the dealer site. If your shop can find a lower model in carbon, I'll buy it.

    What all do you guys carry? I'm running out of brands to check

    Trek - maybe
    Giant - no
    GT - no
    Spec - yes $$
    Kona - maybe
    Cannondale - no
    Orbea - no
    Ritchey - maybe
    Ridley - maybe
    Felt - no
    Look - no
    Kuota - no
    Blue - no
    Colnago - no
    Cervelo - no
    Calfee - yes $$$$$$$
    Scott - no
    Fuji - no
    KHS - no
     
    #13 -   Jun 12, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
  14. Wumpus

    Wumpus makes avatars better

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 153
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,170
    Location:
    Six Shooter Junction
    Trek, Specialized, Masi and Felt mainly.

    We can get GT, Giant(I think) and Colnago.
     
  15. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

    Rep/Likes:
    119 / 1,155
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,483
    Location:
    Colorado
    Loco's shop, right?
     
  16. Nick

    Nick My name is Nick

    Rep/Likes:
    295 / 2,492
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Messages:
    13,729
    Location:
    behind you, don't wait up.
    yo.
    I talked to Dan yesterday. His shop on Colorado at Yale has the Roubaaayy Expert in stock in a 64cm. You should go and check the fit.
     
  17. SuspectDevice

    SuspectDevice Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 28
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3,951
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    Now are you sure you really need a 64cm tt?

    The majority of my custom frames go to guys in the 6'+ range.
    At your size if your're not riding a 140mm stem and 12+cm of drop you're doing it wrong.

    You're in CO, go talk to someone who makes bikes, not sells them and get their opinion.
    If you head over and see Joe at Primus Mootry in Longmont he can build you an oversized aluminum frameset for less than $1500.


    Most consumers try to buy bikes that are too big for them- if you're doing that you're making a world of hurt for yourself!
     
  18. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

    Rep/Likes:
    119 / 1,155
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,483
    Location:
    Colorado
    Awesome. Good thing the people at the shop can properly check inventory... If I can get up there this weekend I'll be riding it
     
  19. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

    Rep/Likes:
    119 / 1,155
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,483
    Location:
    Colorado
    I have been fit at a couple of shops and all are saying that I should be on a 62cm top tube. I'm not jumping right away to.get a frame, I want to get one that fits right. I am getting carbon because my back can't handle the aluminum frame.
     
  20. SuspectDevice

    SuspectDevice Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 28
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3,951
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    "back can't handle aluminum frame".
    I love marketing!
     
  21. Nick

    Nick My name is Nick

    Rep/Likes:
    295 / 2,492
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Messages:
    13,729
    Location:
    behind you, don't wait up.
    alright Mickey ... surely you don't dispute that material = ride characteristic.
    You have the know-how and background so answer this; why is it that 'most' if not all aluminum frames ride so incredibly and uncomfortably stiff (IMO), and how would you build with aluminum to a different result?

    edit: maybe 'stiff' isn't even the problem, but I think you know what I'm asking.
     
  22. clarkenstein

    clarkenstein Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    259
    i'm 6'4... and honestly curious why you say that? i have yet to get a road bike that feels "right". and i need one. i just did my first enduro race. i seriously sucked out loud because i was so spent from the climb in just to get to stage one. need moar time on bikez.
     
  23. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

    Rep/Likes:
    119 / 1,155
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,483
    Location:
    Colorado
    I've had both C and Al bikes in the past, both before and after my back surgery. Unless the frames I had were grossly over stiff, the vibrations from the Al frame really bothered my lower back. Weight is of no real concern to me, fit and feel are the most important.
     
  24. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

    Rep/Likes:
    119 / 1,155
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,483
    Location:
    Colorado
    I have questions with this as well. I'm a casual cyclist, not a racer. The extent of my riding is spinning onhigh mileage rides. The higher front end of the new casual roadie frames are great for me. A 140 stem and 12cm drop sounds pretty aggressive for a casual/weekend rider.
     
  25. SuspectDevice

    SuspectDevice Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 28
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3,951
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    Yeah, I do dispute the commonly promulgated untruths and generalizations about the ride characteristics of any material.

    Ride quality and comfort is mostly about tire size and pressure and then it's about the natural resonant frequency of the material and how it's implemented into a structure- the overall frequency of the bike(fork, wheels, parts) is the main determinant of the butt and hand feel of a bike. The main determinant of overall comfort is the rider position. If the rider is "fighting" their fit(even a bit) it'll make them use muscles they shouldn't be using in ways that are sub-optimal to begin with.

    The higher resonant frequency of aluminum actually allows you to have a great feeling bike when you select tube profiles and shapes that make sense since vibrations can be quickly transmitted out of the frame and neutralized by the components. Then we can talk about how the natural frequency of a frame/part system influences the "liveliness"(I know) and feedback a rider senses. Metal bikes feel better to me because you have much more road feel than a carbon bike- that means you can corner harder and get more stoked to smash on the pedals because the frame is asking you to so that it'll sing in a way that the rider will find inspiring. You can also crash the **** out of a metal bike too. That's a huge reason that people who work at mega-companies like Trek buy our bikes. They can't afford warranty replacements on the bikes they can e.p.

    I've never heard a single complaint about the feel of our bikes, even from 65 year old recreational riders.
    I bet that's because the bikes fit well, have nice wheels that are attached to the best fork you can buy (Enve) and a well designed frame that is made with great care by incredibly experienced people(Every frame I've ever sold has been welded by people that have built multiple world-championship winning bikes) in the United States.

    I'd like to think that there is a reason that employees from Trek and Specialized and Cannondale and Seven and Sram/Zipp and I.F. and Hutchinson and Vittoria and Mavic and Michelin and Maxxis and LH Thomson and Enve and Clif Bar and Jamis and Ridley and Rapha and QBP and J&B and Hawley and Bti and Bicycling and Bike and Hi-Torque and Roleur and Dirt Rag and dozens of shop employees, a handful of ex euro pros and a score of Wallstreet millionaires have all bought aluminum road frames from me over the last 5 years. I know of 5 or 6 people that sold their bike, regretted it and bought a new one too, including people who run their own bike brands. I'm guessing that means they don't think that aluminum bikes ride like crap right?

    A frame that is hydroformed feels like ****, and so does a less-expensive frame that uses extruded or seam-welded tubing instead of cold drawn and cold formed tubes. Enhanced grain structure from cold working really does make a difference in the feel of a bike because it really does improve the mechanical characteristics and grain structure of the tubing.

    That's just my opinion and the opinion of hundreds of stoked Spooky owners.
    I've seriously never heard anyone complain about the ride quality of the bikes.
     
    #25 -   Jun 12, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
  26. SuspectDevice

    SuspectDevice Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 28
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3,951
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    Taller bars that are closer to you don't really mean d!ck when it comes to fit our comfort. They're sales tools- a shop hack can put somebody on a bike like that and send them out the door "happy".
    Is that the best position? Does it have the best weight distribution, the most neutral joint angles, the correct saddle height or setback? The right bars with the hoods in the right place? A saddle that's shaped right? The right crank length? If it comes off the showroom floor it probabally doesn't, especially for people on the extreme ends of the size spectrum. There's a reason I don't make stock bikes outside the range of 55cm to 59cm toptubes. Little people and big people are shaped differently and slight variances in limb length are exacerbated when the variances are so significant from the norm.

    There are people with messed up bodies that "need" to ride a shopping cart but unless you have 3 or 4 fused vertebrae there is no reason to fit somebody to a bike in a way that maximizes inefficiency and ignores handling and weight distribution.

    Wheelbases need to be as close to one meter as possible for a bike to handle well- It doesn't matter if somebody is 5'2" or 6'4"- a bicycle handles best with less than a 20mm variance either way from a 1 meter wheelbase. By varying seat angle, head angle, fork offset, HT length, CS length, bb drop and TT length you can put somebody on a bike in a neutral position with optimal weight distribution and the right handling characteristics for the intended application.

    This isn't wacky Mickey theory either- it is the accepted dogma among all framebuilders and bike designers.
     
  27. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

    Rep/Likes:
    383 / 3,711
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    54,374
    Location:
    media blackout
    this statement made my day :rofl:


    Also, based on what I know of framebuilding and designing bikes (I've read most of Paterek's, though I've never designed or built a bike), I'm gonna back Mickey up here 100% on everything he's said.
     
  28. Nick

    Nick My name is Nick

    Rep/Likes:
    295 / 2,492
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Messages:
    13,729
    Location:
    behind you, don't wait up.
    Thanks for the detailed answer.
     
  29. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

    Rep/Likes:
    119 / 1,155
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,483
    Location:
    Colorado
    Thanks Mickey. I just sent off an email to Joe.
     
  30. OGRipper

    OGRipper Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 103
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    9,691
    Location:
    NORCAL is the hizzle
    You might also check out Lennard Zinn from Velonews. Big dude that's been making custom bikes for big guys forever. If nothing else you should check out some of his articles about bikes for large humans, he's got lots of good info.
     
  31. Wumpus

    Wumpus makes avatars better

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 153
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,170
    Location:
    Six Shooter Junction
    Not his shop. We just work there. :p

    I guess I'm doing it wrong then. I would be miserable on a bike with that kind of drop.
     
  32. Wumpus

    Wumpus makes avatars better

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 153
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,170
    Location:
    Six Shooter Junction
    Wheelbase and other considerations

    Five times a year somebody well meaning and semi-armed with a new vocabulary without much context or history, but a good intellect and a sincere desire to get to the meat of the matter and know facts...calls up starts off the conversation this-a-way:

    "What's the wheelbase on your XYZ?"

    We're thinking: If you know the other dimensions, wheelbase doesn't matter. And the other dimensions are always known. Wheelbase should never be a design criterion. It is a dependent variable, the result of other criteria (independent variables)--namely, the seat and head tube angles, top tube length and upslope, fork rake, chainstay length, and even bottom bracket drop.

    A hundred bikes could have the same wheelbase, but they wouldn't fit or ride the same, or accommodate the same tires, if the independent variables are different.

    Frettin' 'bout wheelbase is a vestige of the early '70s, when the country had a major infusion of rookie riders (I was one of 'em) who wanted things boiled down the the simplest understandable form, even if things got lost in the boiling.

    Then, if a bike had a 39-inch wheelbase, it was a Racing bike. At 40, it was a Sport-Touring bike. At 42, a Touring bike....and now we move on.

    There's a smattering of logic in the wheelbase story. Racing bikes have smaller tires than touring bikes, so the chainstays CAN be shorter, and so they usually are. (I cannot help but mention that Pino Moronni, Italian designer and consultant to the stars on record attempts) thought all chainstays should be about 45cm---more than 2-inches longer than normal race bike chainstays. Whether one thinks Pino was a nut or a genius doesn't matter, but to whatever extent one can call bikes "fast" or "slow" independent of riders, his bikes were fast.)

    So back to the wheelbase and how it's nearly meaningless as a solo number. The important numbers are:

    Chainstay length....too short, bike is too jumpy.
    Tire and fender clearance....too little, can't run a big fun tire or fenders
    Seat tube angle....too steep, can't put seat back far enough
    Head tube angle and fork rake: Combine to influence how the bike responds.
    Fork blade length: Affects front wheel clearance
    BB drop: Affects ground clearance, standover height, and bike "feel"

    I may be missing one or two, but Wheelbase isn't one of them.

    When the independent variables are "right"--whatever your own personal "right" is---then the wheelbase will be right, because it can't be any other way. By definition it must be right, as long as you agree that it's a dependent variable, and not an indepedent one masquerading as a dependent one.

    Summary: A good bike designer won't design to wheelbase. Wheelbase is the result of other dimensions. There are tons of ways to achieve the same wheelbase with different tube lenths and angles and offsets, and all those bikes, with the same wheelbase, will fit and ride differently.
     
  33. SuspectDevice

    SuspectDevice Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 28
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3,951
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    Yeah you might be miserable, but it is pretty spot on as a generalization from my experience doing fittings for shops and building custom frames for individuals.

    Where'd you cut and paste the above post from?
    Because it's just plain wrong if we're talking about designing a high-performance road bike.

    It also completely misses the point of what I'm saying.
    A bike that is designed wrong is going to suck, duh.
     
    #33 -   Jun 13, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2012
  34. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

    Rep/Likes:
    383 / 3,711
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    54,374
    Location:
    media blackout
    mmmm copy pasta.

    also, whoever wrote this completely ignored a critical trait to bike handling which is fork trail.
     
  35. SuspectDevice

    SuspectDevice Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 28
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3,951
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    Well, not exactly, they just chose not to mention it when describing every single possible parameter of hardpoint length and angle. Wheelbase, mass projection and trail are the only fundamental things that matter. Mass projection is the most integrative parameter and the thing that the smallest amount of people can sublimate into something usable to design a bike.

    That is the consensus of everyone that designs a bicycle whether they know or not- what they're trying to achieve is different, obviously, but the same fundamental rules apply for everything from a kids bike to a world-land speed bike and everything in between. All bicycles are the same, you can even design a turn-in feel that feels the same(optimally consistent) on your 20" as on your downhill bike because it's your primitive brain that controls the bike and your primitive brain is well, primitive and easy to influence.

    Just like human physiology bike frame design is about integrative systems- heck it's a machine and an animal working together in near-perfect harmony.

    An ititerative list of every single thing that influences the way a bike handles isn't really worthwhile to mention because everything influences how a bike handles.
     
  36. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

    Rep/Likes:
    383 / 3,711
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    54,374
    Location:
    media blackout
    especially shimz
     
  37. Wumpus

    Wumpus makes avatars better

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 153
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,170
    Location:
    Six Shooter Junction

    No, I just didn't include it.

     
  38. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

    Rep/Likes:
    383 / 3,711
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    54,374
    Location:
    media blackout
    but he doesn't talk about shimzs
     
  39. bean

    bean Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,354
    Location:
    Boulder
    How about Surly? Cross Check goes up to 62, and is larger than usual (I went down one size from what I rode on others like Felt). They also have a pure road bike, the Pacer. It goes up to 62 though it may not be quite as big as the Cross Check.
     
  40. Wumpus

    Wumpus makes avatars better

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 153
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,170
    Location:
    Six Shooter Junction

    That's in the handlebar height one.