oh you can definitely cut it. it may no longer work as advertised tho
Yeti 303 Carbon
- Thread starter Trekrules
- Start date
Any rumors of a DH bike on the Switch pivot tech? Maybe an RDH replacement?
Or maybe even better, a 303WC, with an eccentric main pivot (and one chainstay).
Or maybe even better, a 303WC, with an eccentric main pivot (and one chainstay).
As we've said all along, we develop bikes and technology with a very specific purpose in mind. Switch Technology works very well for the performance characteristics we were looking to achieve with a trail/all mountain bike. The 303/Rail technology works very well for what we were trying to achieve for a DH bike (a look at the speed trap results from the last two years at PMB will demonstrate this pretty clearly).
FYI,
JP
FYI,
JP
You have to admit that's not exactly what comes to mind when most people think about DH bike performance. But I'd bet it's not too long before those 3 guys give you a way better plug for the 303. Great to see the Yeti DH team reloaded with talent.
JP - where can one find said speed trap results?
Who doesn't. But that's not exactly the best description of the RSA speedtrap (or most any WC speedtrap for that matter). Unless Yeti has figured out a way to fabricate Jared's legs into the frame.
I much prefer the speed trap that covers the entire track.
...because Yeti has figured out how to fabricate Jared's legs AND bike handling skills into the frame?
I can't speak for other tracks, but the speed trap at PMB is at the end of a long, straight, steep, rocky section. It's a pretty good equalizer, because most of the riders at the WC level can let go of the brakes in that section and let their bike do its thing. Basically, it takes a lot of the skill and fitness level of the rider out of the equation and just measures how well a bike can absorb bumps and go fast. We've been pretty happy with the results.
JP
JP
Trap speeds are the new scale shots.
"Yea the bike looks good, but what's the Trap speed?"
"Yea the bike looks good, but what's the Trap speed?"
No chance. 
I'd still let that frame have my children.
meh. yaw angle or nothing.
It's a pretty substantial piece of marketing and imaginary thinking to attribute speed trap speeds to frame design. If the traps took skill/fitness out of the equation, then everyone on similar frames and suspension would be going the same speed. They're not. As for the reported speeds, you have to wonder their accuracy when a one-armed Al Bond can go 2.5mph faster than the worlds best.
Moral of the story: Break your shoulder and buy a Nukeproof
Moral of the story: Break your shoulder and buy a Nukeproof
Bond couldn't pull his brake lever...
doesn't matter what bike I'm on, my traps speeds are limited by the small size of my balls a lot more so than by my bikes ability to absorb bumps
Cool, if speed trap results are the indicator for the best bikes in the world then it is either a M6 or an Evil Revolt (depending if you ride on snow or volcanic ash 
):
http://dhreno.wordpress.com/2007/09/20/intense-m6-worlds-fastest-bike/
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f19/markus-max-st%D6ckl-164-95-kph-evil-revolt-blessed-virgin-mary-242717/
):http://dhreno.wordpress.com/2007/09/20/intense-m6-worlds-fastest-bike/
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f19/markus-max-st%D6ckl-164-95-kph-evil-revolt-blessed-virgin-mary-242717/
I think the statement I made may have been interpreted more generally than I intended.
I meant to say that on this particular track with this particular trap placement (at the end of a long, straight, rocky, steep section), I feel that it's a pretty good indicator of how well a bike absorbs bumps and how fast it allows a rider to go over that type of terrain. If there's another way to measure this type of thing with this few variables over this many types of bikes, I'm not aware of it.
Will statistical anomalies exist? No doubt. But when the same bike finishes at the top of this particular test 2 years in a row under 3 different riders, that seems like more than a coincidence to me.
Are there other factors that go into making a bike go fast over an entire race or multiple races in a season? Of course. The rider is probably the biggest variable, but the bike's ability to corner, efficiently pedal, etc. etc. etc. are all huge as well.
I'm not trying to offer any 'imaginary marketing'; just making a very specific statement about a very specific set of criteria.
JP
John I think a statement that a bike can make you faster is very unpopular on the interwebz lately. True hardcore riders tend to follow the opinion that you could win in a shopping cart. Also in case of speedtraps parts and overall bike setup also play a role.
At the same time my riding experiance sure suggests that some bikes are noticably faster over the rough than others. I'd be really curious to see a speed test of different frames with the same setup and same rider. I wonder what the differances are and how they transfer to the final course time. At the same time I have to say plowish bikes don't seem to win often but again it has to do more with the riders.
btw. I have an idea - can you do a comparison like the one i mentioned between the new 303 and the 303R ?
At the same time my riding experiance sure suggests that some bikes are noticably faster over the rough than others. I'd be really curious to see a speed test of different frames with the same setup and same rider. I wonder what the differances are and how they transfer to the final course time. At the same time I have to say plowish bikes don't seem to win often but again it has to do more with the riders.
btw. I have an idea - can you do a comparison like the one i mentioned between the new 303 and the 303R ?
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So rough and rocky that a one-armed man pulled 2.5mph on everyone?
So if we use your logic a bit, because the World Cup last year was won on a Trek Session, should we all go buy one of those since it demonstrated its ability (nothing to do with the rider, weather, insert your own variable here etc) to perform over a larger cross section of tracks?
Larger cross section of a track = more variables. I think you missed his point. Not to mention I've seen people claim more plowy frames are slower in corners which in turn may be slower all along the track (though it's just speculation and I won't suggest either way is true unless I see some proper tests on that)
I have to say 3 different riders getting great speedtraps time on that frame may be a coincidence but it is interesting.
Every marketing department of every bicycle company that has ever green-lighted the salary of a top WC rider is saying exactly this, or something like it. Not just Trek, not just Yeti, not just Specialized or Giant or Fox or SRAM or whoever. Having wins on your equipment sells product, period.
This isn't some deep dark secret, or at least I wasn't aware that it was?
^^^Oh, and also this.
EDIT: To be fair to manufacturers, employing top-level riders does more than just provide marketing content to sell product. The testing and R&D feedback a company can get from it's top riders is instrumental in pushing the development of new product and technologies. (Which ALSO helps to sell products, come to think of it...
)
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There is: computer simulation. It eliminates all the variables and gives you very interesting results.
No, John's point was that the Yeti is the best on a single straight in South Africa so the suspension must be awesome, while ignoring all other contributing variables to frame performance.
My point was that if we all do the same (ignore all variables) then you can make any old turd look good.
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And we wonder why more Industry types don't post on forums...
yeah, fyck the fycktwats of this thread.
edit: john, I've always been of the opinion that yeti's were baddass, that they rode super well. I had three complaints with them in the past:
The early rail design required a sh1t ton of maint to keep it feeling as smooth as most other bikes on the market. Fixed with the RDH
The earlier 303 and the RDH were really heavy frames, which should be fixed with this carbon model.
And last, and biggest thing that held me back, is that they were too expensive and I couldn't afford one!
I like my session alot, but I probably will be unwilling to justify buying a new one at retail since I no longer work at a shop, and trek has gone full retard with their specs and prices (6K for a top of the line DH bike that comes with lower end house brand components, shock, tires, and wheels? pass.)
In about 2 years, I'll probably have broken my session, and be in a more financially stable state, and I'll be looking at a new bike. And I'll be giving that carbon DH bike you guys have in the pipes a good hard look.
edit: john, I've always been of the opinion that yeti's were baddass, that they rode super well. I had three complaints with them in the past:
The early rail design required a sh1t ton of maint to keep it feeling as smooth as most other bikes on the market. Fixed with the RDH
The earlier 303 and the RDH were really heavy frames, which should be fixed with this carbon model.
And last, and biggest thing that held me back, is that they were too expensive and I couldn't afford one!
I like my session alot, but I probably will be unwilling to justify buying a new one at retail since I no longer work at a shop, and trek has gone full retard with their specs and prices (6K for a top of the line DH bike that comes with lower end house brand components, shock, tires, and wheels? pass.)
In about 2 years, I'll probably have broken my session, and be in a more financially stable state, and I'll be looking at a new bike. And I'll be giving that carbon DH bike you guys have in the pipes a good hard look.
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This thread is awesome.
I am stoked that John P. is here, and other forums. I can't say the same for many other manufacturers.
What I take from the comment and stats is this, in a sport where there are so many variables it is important to track the limited data you can and attempt to use it to your advantage, whether thats fine tuning a fork or redesigning a frame. Yes this is a stretch but so is gathering data.
IF, I was Yeti R&D I would be stoked to see that the vision was working or at very least headed in the right direction.
What I take from the comment and stats is this, in a sport where there are so many variables it is important to track the limited data you can and attempt to use it to your advantage, whether thats fine tuning a fork or redesigning a frame. Yes this is a stretch but so is gathering data.
IF, I was Yeti R&D I would be stoked to see that the vision was working or at very least headed in the right direction.
i would think peeps around here would want more bike reps and industry gurus participating....
i'm not saying they get an automatic pass if something questionable is uttered, but a pile-on isn't necessary either.
i'm not saying they get an automatic pass if something questionable is uttered, but a pile-on isn't necessary either.
Plus, John P is one of us and is old school. I remember him before he had any industry job from way back in the day when he was recommending 24 inch 3.0 inch gazzalodi's for hucking at Plattekill.
Way back when DW was just a young dreamer that went by F1 Moto.
Way back when DW was just a young dreamer that went by F1 Moto.
i'm curious if john p. can elaborate on what aspect of the 303 wc design is the most crucial, or in yeti's mind what about it gives it the edge over other bikes in the scenario john p. is trumpeting here. not hating, just curious what the designers feel is so advantageous over other designs for 'straight line monster trucking' as i think another poster described it.
bring back the lawwill link in carbon please!
Hell yes
I think you might have imagined that part. He just commented on one advantage of their susp. I think he hopes everyone realizes that every susp design is a compromise so hide your rage boner and chill out.
btw. John is all that defending of yeti and stuff increasing the chances of yeti sending a test ride to our bike mag?
"The name that jumps out most for me though is Richard Rude Jr. Not a name I'm familiar with but after a spot of Googling I now know he's better known as Richie Rude (great name fella...) and he's a 17 year old riding for the same Yeti Fox Shox Factory team as Jared Graves. He must have had a problem up top as his Split 1 put him only 64th but then he had an absolute stormer of a run after that posting the 11th fastest pedal of the day and 11th fastest bottom split to go 31st. A dark horse to watch out for this year?"
