[cecil]

The real question is who is responsible for this problem? In other words who is paying for the so called "production problem" how many frames were made? And does the the person being held accountable have deep enough pockets to re purchase material pay the labor re make all these frames.

I would get my money back ASAP

If not put me down for 8/2/12

 

[Optimax150]

I'm glad they stopped the production. Better for them to stop and fix the problem. Wouldn't want yeti to ship a bunch of frames and have them fail. I'm happy, should be a win win,mbut yeah a little late on the consumer side. What you want? A rushed frame that is flawed or a frame with all the kinks worked out.

 

[Bikael Molton]

First world problems.

exactly

 

[Inclag]

First world problems.

So so true...

Get your money back and get another frame. Sure, a fraction of the blame deserves to be put on these companies that utilize overseas manufacturing but have to go through what they claim is a prerequisite period of growing pains. However, as the consumer if you want to avert risk, then do business with any of the number of companies that successfully pump out products without delay or problem....

... you know, I should stop thinking rationally. I keep forgetting this is the bike industry, where the important things are having products with 'soul' and having bro-dude's that knows you by your first name help you on the phone and make you feel all special when you have to handle warranty for a crap product.

 

[Sandwich]

Tell me again why Taiwan is such a good idea?

 

[denjen]

First world problems.

Yup.

It always boggles my mind that people even consider buying frames/bikes that are not readily available. I can respect brand loyalty but not to the point of waiting and stressing over something that is supposed to help you reduce stress.

Anyone want to bet a case of beer on how long till this gets shut down?

 

[OGRipper]

This is total BS. First you post threads about Taiwan and not wanting to name the company. Now you completely throw them under the bus. It's funny that there are literally thousands of people who are pretty stoked with both Yeti and Santa Cruz's products and customer service, yet for some reason you think they are both completely worthless and don't care about the customers.

You're wrong.

It all gets back to you selling your existing bike in anticipation of the latest and greatest, before you could hold it in your hands. You got burned by that before and yet you did it again. This is YOUR fault and you are only making SCB and Yeti look better by whining about YOUR poor planning.

I sense that the real reason you're upset is because you are not gonna look super cool in the parking lot or lift line this year.

EDIT: I am saddened that I know so much about your drama.

 

[jackalope]

Time to press the easy button and get on with it:

http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/951473/

It even comes pre-mudded!

 

[Smelly]

I'm out of shape, and I have more money then sense.

Then buy an XC or road bike and stfu.

 

[Raingauge]

http://fanatikbike.com/product/10-turner-dhr-frame-4740.htm

I'm waiting on a warranty frame from Evil. I picked one of these up for the interim. USA made and in stock. CRC had them on sale awhile ago for under $2G.

 

[Pegboy]

As G.W Bush said, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...and...uh, and we won't get fooled again.?"

 

[Inclag]

Tell me again why Taiwan is such a good idea?

Great manufacturing capability and tooling available, skilled labor that surpasses that of the US, lower manufacturing cost since skilled US basket weavers think they should be paid exponentially higher than equally skilled basket weavers from the rest of the world. Globalization isn't going anywhere so we may as well embrace it. Just because we won the vagina lottery as upper middle class white 'Mericans doesn't make the rest of the world evil.

The problem isn't Taiwan. It's that the people here in the US or Yurp can't properly manage their businesses.

 

[schwaaa31]

Tell me again why Taiwan is such a good idea?

My last 3 Specialized bikes may have no "soul", but they were right on time, and 100% top quality.

 

[William42]

My last 3 Specialized bikes may have no "soul", but they were right on time, and 100% top quality.

Speaking of, I never got the "soul" thing with a bicycle. Its a bunch of metal tubes welded together. It either rides the way you want it to, or it doesn't. If it rides well, and hits a price your happy with, buy one and ride it.

Its like people expect their bikes to be like designer clothing, or small batch boutique coffee. Its always better if its exclusive and priced higher. Not bashing on yeti, because I think their bikes ride well, but seriously, you have no room to b1tch. If they are unable to have a bike that they can stand behind ready for your time schedule, there are like a gagillion other brands out there. I'm fairly confident that somebody has a frame in stock, and there are many, many, many nice frames to choose from. If USA made is your deal, Foes, intense, turner, and zeroed are all here, and you could probably find an el-cuervo somewhere. If North America is ok, expand it to xprezo, and I think davinci and maybe cove/norco? If you just want a bitching bike that rides really well and is high quality, trek, specialized, and giant probably still have some frames available.

Getting your sights set on a prereleased frame so you can be the coolest kid on the mountain and then getting butthurt that the company is deliberately out to screw you because they don't have a finished product in the timeframe they were shooting for is pretty low. Get over yourself, and buy something else.

 

[Ian Collins]

holy manstruating bitch fest

 

[General Lee]

holy manstruating bitch fest

 

[Scrub]

So my guess is that Dirt will be the first one to get the last frame of the 2nd batch after the WC guys get theirs for the last race. 9-17-12

 

[homepiece]

So my guess is that Dirt will be the first one to get the last frame of the 2nd batch after the WC guys get theirs for the last race. 9-17-12

Is there an option of the Price is Right type bid on this? If so, I say that the bike will never appear in Dirt's hands. Official timeline is released, Dirt does not like it, gets deposit back and buys something else.

 

[big-ted]

If I had to give a gun-to-the-head guess, I’d say late July.

John P.

Nah, I don;t think that's gonna cut it for the purposes of this bet. We're going to need an exact date for you to eligible to win the beer...

 

[Ian Collins]

hahaaha, awesome

 

[Sandwich]

Great manufacturing capability and tooling available, skilled labor that surpasses that of the US, lower manufacturing cost since skilled US basket weavers think they should be paid exponentially higher than equally skilled basket weavers from the rest of the world. Globalization isn't going anywhere so we may as well embrace it. Just because we won the vagina lottery as upper middle class white 'Mericans doesn't make the rest of the world evil.

The problem isn't Taiwan. It's that the people here in the US or Yurp can't properly manage their businesses.

Ah, so Yeti is a bad company with poor management, not the business they deal with in Taiwan who does their frames. Does Jon P. know this?

 

[descente]

i bet santa cruz has v-10c frames in stock....

 

[Pslide]

I guess welding thin-walled aluminum for use in a highly strenuous environment is tricky business!

If only we had some type of miracle composite material that didn't require welding at 6000 deg C and was both lighter and stronger than aluminum...

 

[Bikael Molton]

i bet there's a local beardo bro ready to cobble together some 4130 for the OP.

 

[William42]

i bet there's a local beardo bro ready to cobble together some 4130 for the OP.

1 1/4 inch bar stock. sure it might be a 25lb frame, but weight doesn't matter, because you're a part of something man.

 

[Inclag]

Ah, so Yeti is a bad company with poor management, not the business they deal with in Taiwan who does their frames. Does Jon P. know this?

Never said that. You have to look at it from a top down model and it is the job of Yeti (insert Evil, 2007-2010 Marzocchi, whomever else you want) to do whatever is necessary to mitigate risk and assure that the production goes as intended. It was their prerogatives to setup production offsite and it is on them to make sure that it goes as successfully as if their machine shop/welding facility in their facility. Shrewd?...maybe, but when you develop a product you have to be on these things or else you leave room for error. Sh!t runs downhill, so it easy to point to or as a consumer assume the CM is the entity that is at fault (especially when they are on the other side of the planet).

Let me preface that what I'm about to say is just an example and to dissociate it with the Yeti situation.

It's easy to tell a consumer that their are 'manufacturing issues' rather than explaining that the scheduled timeline was too aggressive, or that your engineering department didn't provide properly toleranced drawings with inspection dimensions, or that instead of having some sort of on-site staff overseeing production you hired a liaison that knows diddle about your product. Maybe you didn't setup a prototype production runs that went through rigorous discrete destruction analysis.

Anyway Do I think Yeti is a bad company with poor management? Honestly, I don't know enough about the people or the company to answer that. All I do know is that Yeti (as a company) has delayed frames and it has been said that it is due to manufacturing issues.

**As a heads up, I have nothing against Yeti and want people and companies like Yeti to keep on making rad bikes. Xenophobia just sets me off **

 

[epic]

Tell me again why Taiwan is such a good idea?

To keep costs down. How else would you be able to sell a DH frame for only 3K?

 

[Sandwich]

How else would you be able to sell a DH frame for only 3K?

Dunno, we should ask Brent Foes or Jess Steber.

 

[Sandwich]

Never said that. You have to look at it from a top down model and it is the job of Yeti (insert Evil, 2007-2010 Marzocchi, whomever else you want) to do whatever is necessary to mitigate risk and assure that the production goes as intended. It was their prerogatives to setup production offsite and it is on them to make sure that it goes as successfully as if their machine shop/welding facility in their facility. Shrewd?...maybe, but when you develop a product you have to be on these things or else you leave room for error. Sh!t runs downhill, so it easy to point to or as a consumer assume the CM is the entity that is at fault (especially when they are on the other side of the planet).

Let me preface that what I'm about to say is just an example and to dissociate it with the Yeti situation.

It's easy to tell a consumer that their are 'manufacturing issues' rather than explaining that the scheduled timeline was too aggressive, or that your engineering department didn't provide properly toleranced drawings with inspection dimensions, or that instead of having some sort of on-site staff overseeing production you hired a liaison that knows diddle about your product. Maybe you didn't setup a prototype production runs that went through rigorous discrete destruction analysis.

Anyway Do I think Yeti is a bad company with poor management? Honestly, I don't know enough about the people or the company to answer that. All I do know is that Yeti (as a company) has delayed frames and it has been said that it is due to manufacturing issues.

**As a heads up, I have nothing against Yeti and want people and companies like Yeti to keep on making rad bikes. Xenophobia just sets me off **

OK, but after so many years in business, doing what they do (and Yeti seems to know what they're doing), is it impossible that the factory they farmed out to is to blame? Seems like it could be the culprit to me. Maybe you're right, and somebody spilled beer on their drawings and Yeti has no management, and everything in Taiwan is going smoothly as possible, just like it did for Evil.

 

[Sandwich]

My last 3 Specialized bikes may have no "soul", but they were right on time, and 100% top quality.

You can't really compare the manufacturing capability of a company like Specialized or Giant to that of Evil or really even Yeti.

And it's not xenophobia, it's fear or hatred of buying product from the lowest bidder, whatever you call that. My current DH frame was made in Poland, and I'm OK with that, because it was made by a person who cares, not by somebody with minimal, non-specific job training. I just bought a tower fan for the bedroom and immediately the first one had to go back because the oscillating motor was making a bad noise. I don't want that in my bicycle frame....or if I do, I expect to pay extremely little for it, like the fan.

 

[Pete..]

DirtMcGirk, you've made yourself look like such a wuss in this thread.

 

[Bikael Molton]

My current DH frame was made in Poland, and I'm OK with that, because it was made by a person who cares, not by somebody with minimal, non-specific job training.

I'd like to know how you figure out the care level of the myriad of personnel involved in the production of each product you purchase.

 

[norbar]

You can't really compare the manufacturing capability of a company like Specialized or Giant to that of Evil or really even Yeti.

And it's not xenophobia, it's fear or hatred of buying product from the lowest bidder, whatever you call that. My current DH frame was made in Poland, and I'm OK with that, because it was made by a person who cares, not by somebody with minimal, non-specific job training. I just bought a tower fan for the bedroom and immediately the first one had to go back because the oscillating motor was making a bad noise. I don't want that in my bicycle frame....or if I do, I expect to pay extremely little for it, like the fan.

Seriously man if you didn't talk about Zumbi I'd be with you. Yes it's harder to control quality on taiwan but some technologies are more easily available and we probably wouldn't have a lot of awesome frames to choose from if not for Tw. So don't hate.

Back to Zumbi. Now they are ok but 3+ years ago they had BIG quality problems made by the same people who didn't care (Zumbi owner is not the welder, think of the factory as local SAPA, the frames are made in a local airplane valley). They sorted the issues but basically they had even bigger QC issues than the Tw. companies and it ended with some bad rep locally. That argument would have been really invalid if you've bough the same frame just a few years ago.



btw. Average pay in Taiwan and Poland is comparable so expecting stuff to be cheaper from Taiwan makes no sense.

 

[DirtMcGirk]

DirtMcGirk, you've made yourself look like such a wuss in this thread.

Sticks and stones...

Here's the thing, in my job, if I blow a filing deadline or I can't make a court date, I get fired, have my bar card revoked, and more than likely will be subject to a civil suit. Its called malfeasance, and if I was irresponsible I'd deserve to face such an accusation.

While I might look like a wuss, I don't care. I'm not here for your approval. I'm not here for you to like me. I pointed out a problem that's pervasive in the industry we choose to hand over a lot of our disposable income to. Yes, this is a total "white people/1st world problem." It does not affect my ability to eat, sleep, keep a roof over my head or beer in my belly. But it messes with the little leisure time I do have, and while I accept that is a over privileged white kid plight, I don't appreciate having my time screwed with.

So if you don't dig what I had to say, I'm happy for you. You choose to approach life with the "head in the sand, we're all bro's, let's keep peace in the world mentality." I don't. I choose to approach life with the attitude of never taking no for an answer. That approach has served me well, and I have zero interest in relenting this view because Yeti, or Santa Cruz, or Jeebus himself couldn't meet expectations.

I'm voting with my wallet. I cancelled my order this afternoon, my LBS was super cool. Found something else that hopefully will work and ride just as well and that I can have by the end of next week. No dates missed, no trips negated. For this weekend I'll ride the Intense SS I bought to make it to a friend's big ride weekend. I wish I was on a 303, but the production gods didn't have the time or the inclination to make this happen.

Chalk it up to bad luck.

 

[Beef Supreme]

What are you getting?

 

[Pslide]

Xenophobia just sets me off **

Agree with Sandwich, it's not xenophobia. Inclag, you should know how hard it is to design a complex product without intimate and complete knowledge of the manufacturing process. And yet this is the model that many bike companies have moved to with outsourcing. I like my bike company to be a bike maker, not a design firm.

 

[DirtMcGirk]

TR450. Simple bike. Just gonna ride it til it implodes, then I'll get the Yeti in a couple years. Hopefully they don't change designs again.

With all I've said, I don't want it to come off that I have the hate for Yeti like I do for Santa Cruz. John Pentecost and Chris Conroy have been in direct contact with me, and that means a lot. They're good guys, Yeti is a good company, they just f-ed this one up. I still have my SB66 on order, and I am still gonna ride the hell out of it when it comes.

So if it seems I have a vendetta hard on for Yeti, I don't. I am disappointed I am not getting a 303, but I think the Transition is going to be a good choice for a fat **** who isn't fond of bike work.

I still got love for ya Yeti, but like my mom said, I am disappointed this time. I wish them the best of luck, and hopefully by the time I need a new DH frame I'll be in shape to ride the carbon 303.

 

[norbar]

You do realize you are trying to preorder a new model of what's a car equivalent of a WRC/Supercar from a butique brand but on a much smaller market ? Things like this will happen exactly because of the size of our niche. If you decided to buy a super niche car it would probably happen too but people are way less angry about it. It's good you got another rig though if you really wanted that 303 a temp rig would have been nice. I waited 10 extra months for my legend (had a spare rig) and even though in the last 3 months I wanted to kill Jay and Keith I'm more than happy I waited and I understand that in a market like ours things like that happen.
In the end if you like what your fav. company represents support them. **** happens.

 

[schwaaa31]

You can't really compare the manufacturing capability of a company like Specialized or Giant to that of Evil or really even .

I agree completely. It sounded as you were asking what's good about Taiwan manufacturing in general.

 

[Sandwich]

No. I sound like a complete dick at times, and in particular this thread, but it's not Taiwan nor production there that bothers me. It's bottom dollar production and small companies trying to surf their way into sky high profits by going from idea to execution in grand scale. Seems like a lot of failures are caused by companies trying to save oodles of money (while still charging the same price) by shipping production elsewhere but not doing appropriate homework. Doing that homework costs money (plane tickets, meetings, personal inspections, hiring project managers) that a startup can't afford. By going local, they get better oversight into the production process, can stay up to date and change designs faster, and correct issues on time or as they happen. Then, when whatever cracks on the frame, company B can address the issue quickly and on all future products, rather than having a driveway full of broken frames because they all failed in the same area and nothing was done about it until after the production run was complete.