[TheMontashu]

At least the queen can't suspend congress

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/04/harper-jean.html

 

[Transcend]

And yet another moron who doesn't understand how a parliamentary system works. Or a commonwealth. Also, you'll notice it was the very Canadian Governor General, not the Queen, you 'tard.

You fail. Again.

 

[skinny mike]

did i miss something or did the article not state the reason for parliament being suspended?

sounds to me like that guy knows he is going to be losing his job soon and is grasping at the fringes to hold onto it.

 

[Samirol]

did i miss something or did the article not state the reason for parliament being suspended?

sounds to me like that guy knows he is going to be losing his job soon and is grasping at the fringes to hold onto it.

In Canada, parties get money for every vote they get, about 1/2 of the Conservative Party's (Harper's party) money is from votes, whereas in the NDP, Bloc Quebecois, and Liberal, it is a much much higher percentage. So, they formed a coalition government to overthrow Harper, so he shut down Parliament to prevent that.

 

[Transcend]

did i miss something or did the article not state the reason for parliament being suspended?

sounds to me like that guy knows he is going to be losing his job soon and is grasping at the fringes to hold onto it.

Your reasoning is exactly correct. Harper's party was voted in 7 weeks ago in a federal election, but only received a minority government of 34%. His party elected him as the Prime Minister as party leader.

He has since lost all confidence of the 3 opposition parties (and most of the population of Canada). He would not be able to get anything done now due to the opposition. A non confidence vote was scheduled for monday. This means either another election will be triggered (pointless) or the opposition can form a coalition and request to be allowed to give it a shot.

The only defense the prime minister had was to ask the governor general to prorogue parliament until mid January where he will present his budget. This budget is an automatic non confidence vote, and he will be ousted. Lame move on his part.

 

[Transcend]

In Canada, parties get money for every vote they get, about 1/2 of the Conservative Party's (Harper's party) money is from votes, whereas in the NDP, Bloc Quebecois, and Liberal, it is a much much higher percentage. So, they formed a coalition government to overthrow Harper, so he shut down Parliament to prevent that.

That was simply one of more than a few reasons. The major one is that Harper and his party seem to think they can govern with impunity, despite the fact that they have a minority government. Big mistake on his part.

 

[Samirol]

That was simply one of more than a few reasons. The major one is that Harper and his party seem to think they can govern with impunity, despite the fact that they have a minority government. Big mistake on his part.

Well, from what I understand, that's what finally pushed the Liberal party to go into a coalition, since Dion didn't really want to do it

 

[Transcend]

Well, from what I understand, that's what finally pushed the Liberal party to go into a coalition, since Dion didn't really want to do it

Didn't really want to do it is an understatement. All of the parties except the Conservatives receive almost all of their funding from the votes they receive. ($1.95 per vote). This is a fantastic way of doing things, as it actually encourages people to vote for their preferred party, not the one they think will win or have the best chance of winning when they regularly have 5 parties on your ballot.

However, it was only one of many things, such as banning all federal employees from striking. His budget was about to be tabled with absolutely no regard for the fact that we are in a recession. No major cost cutting measures etc.

 

[Defenestrated]

Why is he allowed to do this?

 

[Transcend]

Why is he allowed to do this?

Well it actually has a reasonable purpose most of the time. This is a special case. I am guessing the GG wants to give them a chance to work things out, but that is wishful thinking.

Here's where it gets interesting. Generally, the Prime Minister will ask the GG to prorogue Parliament - i.e. to discontinue a Parliamentary session - after completing a busy legislative agenda so that the MPs can go back to their constituency offices and get caught up on local matters before the next session starts.

 

[Defenestrated]

In this case did he "ask Parliament to go out of session or did he force them to?

I can understand the PM reserving the right to request that they reconvene at a later date, but should he really be able to force them?

 

[Transcend]

In this case did he "ask Parliament to go out of session or did he force them to?

I can understand the PM reserving the right to request that they reconvene at a later date, but should he really be able to force them?

He "asked" the governor general. In essence, he forced them to by forcing her hand before she was ready.

 

[dante]

weren't you recently touting Canada as a good example of a stable parliamentary system?

 

[Transcend]

weren't you recently touting Canada as a good example of a stable parliamentary system?

Actually this is a pretty good example of a system that indeed does work. The will of the people will be taken into account and a majority rule will take place.

However, it's a tad dysfunctional at the moment as the idiot in charge seems to want to do the opposite of what most of the country wants.

Should we be forced to sit through 8 years of a leader with the lowest public approval of all time instead? That worked really well in the US...

 

[Defenestrated]

I admire various aspects of Canada's system, however this little quirk kinda caught me off guard.

 

[Transcend]

I admire various aspects of Canada's system, however this little quirk kinda caught me off guard.

It's a quirk of every British style Parliamentary system the world over. It's just not usually used this way,although it has been in a few places. I believe Australia even went as far as asking the queen to remove the governor general in order to get the outcome they wanted. I believe the GG was pretty mental in that case though.

 

[sanjuro]

TheMontashu is ghey!!!!

 

[rockwool]

And yet another moron who doesn't understand how a parliamentary system works. Or a commonwealth. Also, you'll notice it was the very Canadian Governor General, not the Queen, you 'tard.

You fail. Again.

Who does the GG represent in every respective commonwealth country? I'm pretty sure it isn't the Brittish parliament, but indeed the queen. Although, what happened this time obviously wasn't because of the divine non-democratic intervention of the queen.

Remember Aussie in 1977(?) when the left wing government was warned that it would be dismissed by their GG, i.e. the queen, if it didn't 'stay put' about their will to open their secrets police's documentation of Aussie citizens, with fear that the whole West would be made to look like the bad brother of the Soviet Union? The "will of the people" is demonstrably not always favoured by the Commonwealth system.

Didn't really want to do it is an understatement. All of the parties except the Conservatives receive almost all of their funding from the votes they receive. ($1.95 per vote). This is a fantastic way of doing things, as it actually encourages people to vote for their preferred party, not the one they think will win or have the best chance of winning when they regularly have 5 parties on your ballot.

This part of the system sounds really good. Does this $1.95 also go for parties that aren't parliamentary represented? To be fair, what do the critics of that system say about it, how can it evolve?

Actually this is a pretty good example of a system that indeed does work. The will of the people will be taken into account and a majority rule will take place.

However, it's a tad dysfunctional at the moment as the idiot in charge seems to want to do the opposite of what most of the country wants.

Should we be forced to sit through 8 years of a leader with the lowest public approval of all time instead? That worked really well in the US...

Is Sweden majority rules always, without having to 'put up' its backside for any royalty of any country. Not saying that "majority rules" equals the will of the people, but hopefully the will of the parliamentary members. Or rather, the will of their party, as the MPs rarely dare go against it as it more or less means political suicide...

Agree that the Canadian system seems to work better than US's.

 

[stevew]

And yet another moron who doesn't understand how a parliamentary system works. Or a commonwealth. Also, you'll notice it was the very Canadian Governor General, not the Queen, you 'tard.

You fail. Again.

be gentle...

 

[MMike]

I'll be honest. I'm at a bit of a loss as to what the hell is going on with this...

While I do support the parliamentary system in general, this is definitely an exception. The fact that we can have an election, and then a few weeks later, almost have to start all over, is a a bit of a weak spot.

I guess the fact that we seem to be devoid of any decent leadership doesn't help. Damn. I even know a few guys that would be great for PM.

 

[MMike]

Ok now I understand a little more:

Thanks Charles....

Having decided that the Detroit Redwings technically won the 2008 Stanley Cup, the Pittsburgh Penguins, Philadelphia Flyers and Dallas Stars have formed a coalition demanding a three way ownership of the league title. Rational for their decision revolves around their total combined scoring in the 2008 Semi-Finals, their total share of season ticket holders versus the Detroit Redwings and their horror at discovering the Detroit Redwings are using a more cost effective and efficient but non-union made Silver polish to keep the Stanley Cup gleaming. The three teams are being assisted in their bid to overturn the traditional results by members of the Quebec Hockey League who have no real interest in the success of the NHL in general but sense an opportunity to demand Zambonis and other critical equipment be manufactured in Quebec. Player representatives, Team Owners and Nike are expected to submit their proposals to Don Cherry in the next few days. Fans and ticket holders are neither being asked nor allowed a voice in the final decision.

 

[Drunken_Ninja]

oh the prorogue of parliment. so stevie will get to present a budget before being thrown out on Jan 26th. I was hoping for an early xmas present but it looks like xmas will come late this year.

 

[rockwool]

I'll be honest. I'm at a bit of a loss as to what the hell is going on with this...

While I do support the parliamentary system in general, this is definitely an exception. The fact that we can have an election, and then a few weeks later, almost have to start all over, is a a bit of a weak spot.

I guess the fact that we seem to be devoid of any decent leadership doesn't help. Damn. I even know a few guys that would be great for PM.

Do you mean those guys you see when you have two mirrors on opposing walls and you stand in between them?

 

[valve bouncer]

Remember Aussie in 1977(?) when the left wing government was warned that it would be dismissed by their GG, i.e. the queen, if it didn't 'stay put' about their will to open their secrets police's documentation of Aussie citizens, with fear that the whole West would be made to look like the bad brother of the Soviet Union? The "will of the people" is demonstrably not always favoured by the Commonwealth system.

1975. Interesting analysis of what happened.
Still about time we all got rid of Governors General. Stupid bloody idea in the first place.

 

[dante]

Actually this is a pretty good example of a system that indeed does work. The will of the people will be taken into account and a majority rule will take place.

However, it's a tad dysfunctional at the moment as the idiot in charge seems to want to do the opposite of what most of the country wants.

Should we be forced to sit through 8 years of a leader with the lowest public approval of all time instead? That worked really well in the US...

Last I checked, we have an election every 4 years, not 8. It's not the fault of the system that Bush got reelected.

And *this* is your proof that your election system works?? Possible new elections 7 weeks after your last election? At the very least a vote of no confidence and a new government taking over? The US stock market has held its breath waiting to see who Obama named as Treasury Sec, Chairman of the SEC, Defense Sec, etc. There's been talk of how 6 weeks isn't time enough for everyone to get up to speed on how to run the government and the economy, let alone two wars (hence the reason for Gates staying on).

Yet you think it would be a good idea if that all changed and everyone that was brought on spent a whopping 5 or 6 weeks in their current jobs before new people people were sworn in and were given a crash course on how to run the largest economy in the world?

Awesome, I'd get a chance to vote for the Texas Independence Party in the election "because they represent me better", with the only downside being an unstable government with no confidence that whoever was in a leadership role would be in that same position in another month.

 

[rockwool]

1975. Interesting analysis of what happened.
Still about time we all got rid of Governors General. Stupid bloody idea in the first place.

Yea, shake it of like a fart, keep the good parts --> evolve.

Hope I remember the details correctly, I've linked to it before so I'll look it up.


EDIT: http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2419693&highlight=australia#post2419693

I will also add the link to the book where I got the info from.



EDIT2: The Australian part is on page 244-248, and the specific happening with the GG dismissing prime minister Whitlam is in the middle of page 247. Copy-pasting not possible..

http://books.google.com/books?id=-IbQvd13uToC&dq=killing+hope&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=cGsbJ9zkcJ&sig=r8z32-i_yYajXW8GuVqWfOc5-Fc&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result

 

[sanjuro]

Comparisons to our political system aside (since we were idiots for reelecting Bush), it does seem a bit controversial that the Gov Gen decided to postpone Parliament.

I suspect that if the Prime Minister changes in January, you will see a new Gov Gen.