You don't get to be French because you're too Muslim.
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so are you for or against it?
or is this a neight post?
or is this a neight post?
Doesn't that mean you need to travel in time about 500 years?
This is so nativist it hurts. I would say that the Irish, German, and Chinese immigration to the U.S had a positive effect, even though their values were different.
Also, the burqa is an Afghani tradition (and used on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border in Pakistan), so this isn't as much religious discrimination, but cultural discrimination.
Islam does not require a burqa, but rather hijab, which means dressing modestly in some countries and showing only the hands and face in Islamic countries.
The government guarantees equal rights, but also the right to choose to give up your rights as your beliefs see fit.
If it is voluntary I don't see a problem with it. I'll defend someones right to choose to act a certain way even if I don't believe in it, like how you won't see me burning an American flag, but I believe that people should be allowed do so.
If it is voluntary I don't see a problem with it. I'll defend someones right to choose to act a certain way even if I don't believe in it, like how you won't see me burning an American flag, but I believe that people should be allowed do so.
I bet she wears the burka just to cover up the gimp mask.
so how would driver's license/ID work if one works a burqa all day?
From what I understand, many of the more fundamentalist muslim countries don't allow women to leave the home without a male family member present, and they are not allowed to drive. SO how would that work out in France, where, you might have heard, women don't need a male relative to vouch for their identity and are free to drive?
Heck even from a women's rights point of view her practices may be in direct conflict with what France as a whole believes in.
then again I didn't expect much respect for women's rights from someone who trolls a bike forum for political topics.
From what I understand, many of the more fundamentalist muslim countries don't allow women to leave the home without a male family member present, and they are not allowed to drive. SO how would that work out in France, where, you might have heard, women don't need a male relative to vouch for their identity and are free to drive?
Heck even from a women's rights point of view her practices may be in direct conflict with what France as a whole believes in.
I don't recall Germans, Irish, or Chinese women ever being require to wear anything that covered up their face.
then again I didn't expect much respect for women's rights from someone who trolls a bike forum for political topics.
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It is fundamentally about the clash of cultures, I am all for equal rights, no matter woman, black, poor, etc., and if she chooses to live in complete submission, then I don't see the problem with it. As long as she is not forced to live in those conditions, then what is the problem? It is up to the individual to vote, to use free speech, to use the right to protest.
This is one of the many political forums I post on through different aliases.
I don't have a hard opinion on this one, but these two questions do occur:
1) Does she have some inherent right to become French? On one hand, it's the French people's choice who becomes a citizen--on the other, there's a possible moral imperative to apply an equal standard to applicants. However, considering whether an individual will accept the country's cultural and political ideals is certainly a valid part of that standard, IMHO...would anyone be upset if America chose not to grant citizenship to a South African white supremacist?
Certainly, a French citizen could choose to become fundamentalism Muslim as an adult, by choice, but this is not an automatic argument for requiring the country to admit even more people who defy the country's traditions of liberty, equality, fraternity and all that. (And colonization of half the world with brutal force...)
2) Is it "free choice" if you've been indoctrinated to such a culture from birth? If you're likely to indoctrinate your children in such a culture, which is at direct odds from France's concept of culture, politics, and society, should France force itself to admit you?
1) Does she have some inherent right to become French? On one hand, it's the French people's choice who becomes a citizen--on the other, there's a possible moral imperative to apply an equal standard to applicants. However, considering whether an individual will accept the country's cultural and political ideals is certainly a valid part of that standard, IMHO...would anyone be upset if America chose not to grant citizenship to a South African white supremacist?
Certainly, a French citizen could choose to become fundamentalism Muslim as an adult, by choice, but this is not an automatic argument for requiring the country to admit even more people who defy the country's traditions of liberty, equality, fraternity and all that. (And colonization of half the world with brutal force...)
2) Is it "free choice" if you've been indoctrinated to such a culture from birth? If you're likely to indoctrinate your children in such a culture, which is at direct odds from France's concept of culture, politics, and society, should France force itself to admit you?
so when can we say that she "chose to" versus her behavior being the result of an oppressive culture that imposed it upon her to the point where she believed it to be her own choice?
remember during the slavery days there were African Americans who thought that slavery was normal and some even worked to maintain the status quo(ever heard of the house n***ers?) that doesn't mean they actually chose to.
If france decides to put its foot down and say "we will not allow such oppressive culture to set foot in our society", I don't see a problem.
you sound naive to the extreme as someone who has massive amount of white guilt to the point where you can't even see that maybe some cultures are wrong in the treatment of their women. Oh the irony.
remember during the slavery days there were African Americans who thought that slavery was normal and some even worked to maintain the status quo(ever heard of the house n***ers?) that doesn't mean they actually chose to.
If france decides to put its foot down and say "we will not allow such oppressive culture to set foot in our society", I don't see a problem.
you sound naive to the extreme as someone who has massive amount of white guilt to the point where you can't even see that maybe some cultures are wrong in the treatment of their women. Oh the irony.
What are you talking about, of course it is wrong for the cultures to treat their women that way.
Our choices are largely part of the culture we come from.
Your argument that I have white guilt is about as much as a strawman as if I said that you hate all of Islam, you are being ridiculous.
Our choices are largely part of the culture we come from.
Your argument that I have white guilt is about as much as a strawman as if I said that you hate all of Islam, you are being ridiculous.
"respecting cultural differences" is a PC way to say you are okay with women being forced to be oppressed.
If the said people in question are so inclined to preserve their "customs", they may consider move to a place where women being forced to wear burqas are more accepted practices. Everyone wins
and judging from the number of French citizens who adhere to Islam, I don't think they are discriminating against Muslim applicants who want to acquire citizenship much these days.
classic. simply classic. that right there really sealed the arguement. How could I have been so blind? That mere four words really reached out and enlightened me, wow, just wow.
so here is a question, would you be okay with forced marriage being okay in your country(I have no clue where you are from, from your tone you could be from Saudi Arabia) if someone's family is accustomed to it?
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hardly
no, forced marriage isn't okay, I said this before. Take a step back from putting words in my mouth.
so if a muslim woman living in France is oppressed by her culture when she has the right under law to choose not to be...she is a slave?
you actually compared forced slavery to freedom of choice
sure your argument is valid when applied to any Arab Theocracy, but not France.
In France one could easily involve the authorities in defense of ones rights with respect to the law.
you actually compared forced slavery to freedom of choice
sure your argument is valid when applied to any Arab Theocracy, but not France.
In France one could easily involve the authorities in defense of ones rights with respect to the law.