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you guys might enjoy this, too...especially you working moms...

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by -dustin, Oct 6, 2005.

  1. -dustin

    -dustin boring

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    printed in yesterday's Daily Texan Firing Line (where readers of UT's school paper can post their responses to various articles):

    I read the column last week by Devon Ryan and was unsure whether to call her naïve or just an angry feminist. I fully expected to see an uproar coming from those females out there who believe in families and motherhood, but have been disappointed to see only one response.

    After graduating in May 2006 with a master's degree, I fully intend to quit working to have children within two or three years of graduating. I do not feel that quitting my job will make me dependent on my husband. He will work to make money, I will take care of the house. We will depend on each other, the way it should be.

    Contrary to what Ryan implies, women who work are deficient mothers and their children are worse off. Parents are supposed to raise their children and teach them values and habits that will help them to succeed in life. Women who work send their kids to daycare and after-school programs to be raised, putting their children in danger of internalizing whatever backward or evil habits those care providers have. Children need a parent at home to teach them good values and principles, and the parent who does not allow them this necessary part of childhood is negligent.

    The answer to the single-parent predicament is: 1) don't get divorced, especially if you have kids, and 2 ) don't have sex before you get married, bringing children into the world you are unprepared to correctly care for.

    Jeanette Martinez
    Asian studies graduate student
     
    #1 -   Oct 6, 2005

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  2. .:Jeenyus:.

    .:Jeenyus:. Turbo Monkey

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    I think I turned out alright. I was born before my parents were married and my mom has had a job since my birth and a good deal before that... :think:
     
    #2 -   Oct 6, 2005
  3. jebfour

    jebfour Turbo Monkey

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    Very proud of this college girl....can't wait to see her fall flat on her face once she graduates.

    I think that Jeanette Martinez needs to get her a$$ out of college and be introduced to the "real world". It's not a perfect place and in the year 2005 it OFTEN takes two incomes just to cover the bills. Kids adjust amazingly well if they are in the "right" daycare.

    Pathetic.
     
    #3 -   Oct 6, 2005
  4. MMike

    MMike A fowl peckerwood.

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    My wife is a stay at home mom. I think it's making a huge difference. My daughter is 20 months old. She knows the alphabet (not it order...but she can identify and name every letter). She has been able to do this for about two months. she says please and thank you and "bless you" when people sneeze...she's a frickin genius is what she is....
     
    #4 -   Oct 7, 2005
  5. Transcend

    Transcend My Nuts Are Flat

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    wow, naive doesn't even begin to explain this girl.
     
    #5 -   Oct 7, 2005
  6. -dustin

    -dustin boring

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    i'm embarassed to admit that i go to the same school as her.

    MMike, i don't have a problem with stay-at-home parents. i think it's cool you can pull that off, and hope that i will be able to, as well. but the way she expresses herself, and "The answer to the single-parent predicament is: 1) don't get divorced, especially if you have kids"...i mean...jesus christ.
     
    #6 -   Oct 7, 2005
  7. MMike

    MMike A fowl peckerwood.

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    Oh i wasn't agreeing with her...
     
    #7 -   Oct 7, 2005
  8. ridetoofast

    ridetoofast scarred, broken and drunk

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    there is nothing pathetic about it...nice to see you so snidely put down what is a stand up position. i know quiet a few people who have chosen this 'pathetic' route so that THEY are raising their kids and not some poorly paid day care attendant.

    what you fail to mention is that the cost of your alledged good day care just about consumes the 2nd working parents income so its really a net gain of zero.

    [Edited by Ridemonkey]
     
    #8 -   Oct 7, 2005
  9. Transcend

    Transcend My Nuts Are Flat

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    way to go chico...I didnt have to read his drivel until you quoted him. Love my ignore list.

    i think ride too fast has issues with authority figures.
     
    #9 -   Oct 7, 2005
  10. chicodude

    chicodude The Spooninator

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    Whoops.


    My bad....:D
     
  11. jebfour

    jebfour Turbo Monkey

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    Ugh....when I read your posts previous to this I used to think that you were an "OK" guy". With a comment like this....what are you...12?

    Having a mother stay home is a great thing...I have nothing against it....in fact I would prefer it, or for that matter, having the father stay home...this is not always a reality however...bills have to be paid; this is real life.

    May I quote?

    "what you fail to mention is that the cost of your alleged good day care just about consumes the 2nd working parents income so its really a net gain of zero."

    Where do you live? I have lived all over CA; from Chico to LA, and if you are a college educated adult this is just not the case IMO. If you work in a salt mine , then this may be accurate, but in this state, this is just not a reality.

    I'm disappointed in your post. I thought you were and OK guy....I guess that you can't take a view other than your own. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Brian HCM#1

    Brian HCM#1 MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!

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    In today's world it can be difficult to have a stay at home mom. Is it better for the child? I believe it is. My son was in day care and did turn out fine. My daughter is watched by me on mondays, my sister in law on Tue & wed and my wife on thurs & fri. It works out well and she's not raised by strangers. Then on the other side however, being in day care can help a child socialize better with other kids.
     
  13. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    Keep in mind, if the writer just said, "We made the decision for me to stay at home and make the necessary financial and personal sacrifices", this would be much easier to swallow. Instead, she is being a cock, and instead of support, one can only hope for lousy brats and a wayward husband.
     
  14. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    She does seem dumb, and quite probably deludedly conservative.

    Having said that if I get the chanceand I can afford it I, or my wife, will stay home and raise my kids.
     
  15. valve bouncer

    valve bouncer Master Dildoist

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    Yeah if you can afford it, it's the way to go. But the real world often interferes.
     
  16. laura

    laura DH_Laura

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    finally, someone with all the answers. i'd like to hear from her in 20ish years when her children are teenagers just to see what kind of effect her being at home has had on them. (i'm kind of intrerested to see if she can even stay married for that long :rolleyes: )
     
  17. laura

    laura DH_Laura

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    there is something pathetic about it, in fact there is plenty that is pathetic about her comment. first of all she is passing judgement on women who have children while she herself hasn't even started trying. she has no clue what parenthood will be like and she is already pointing the finger.

    secondly, she think that everyone who breeds should have enough money to have one parent stay at home with their kids. what an ideal situation. no ****. I don't know too many mothers that wouldn't take the chance to quite work for five years and watch their babies grow up. unfortunately that isn't possible most of the time. growing up, i had two friends who's moms stayed home. they babysat me.

    thirdly, she is implying that children raised by stay at home mom's turn out better. I got news for her, she may end up with a smart 2 year old, but the likelihood that any values she teaches stick into adolescence will be based more on her child's friends than what she has taught them. more and more studies are showing that peer groups are what influence children's behavior, not parents. As much as i'm sure she would like to think that she will have control over who her child will hang out with at age 16, she won't.

    Fourth and final, she makes judgments on single parent homes and divorce all in one generalizing swoop. I don't even know where to begin. What about death, spouses die. would missy miss like widows to put their children up for adoption lest they become incompetent mothers who must work for a living. No sex before marriage huh? interesting idea, but i have a hard time believing that she adhered to that. (wait a minute, no i don't) And last but not least, divorce. Here is my belief on a lot of things, you can say you wouldn't ever ever do it, but never pass moral judgement on someone else for it. she has no clue how her marriage will turn out. he could cheat, she could cheat, he could end up being an abusive asshole ( you get the picture right?). now if you want to stay in that situation for the sake of the children( :rolleyes: ) by all means do. but don't for a second think that women and men all over the country should do the same.

    in conclusion, pointing fingers and judging people based on scarily narrow one sided categories makes you (or your argument at least) pathetic, in my opinion.
     
  18. SuzyCreamcheese

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    It's too bad that even today it is assumed by some that the only possible reason for a woman to work is for the money. I would have slit my wrists if all I did was stay home and be Suzy Homemaker.

    I don't believe (nor is there any data) for a minute that my kids are subpar because I went out, earned my PhD and have worked ever since. In fact, just the opposite. My girls were raised with a pretty strong set of role models and taught to think for themselves, ask questions, be ambitious, get along in society and not accept tired old paradigms about how women should behave. By all accounts they turned out pretty OK. They are successful young women pursuing their own graduate studies and have rich, full lives.

    Now I'm not saying that my way is the only way, it's not. But neither is anyone else's.

    The Cheese
     
  19. Ridemonkey

    Ridemonkey This is not an active account

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    She fully intends to have kids within two or three years...I wonder if she has a particular husband in mind, or is that going to just fall into place on schedule as well? If so, I'm sure she'll have no trouble snagging the perfect husband with a huge paycheck that will allow her to focus exclusively on child rearing.

    Must be nice to have it all figured out!

    Here I am wasting my time dating and having sex before marriage, when all I really need to do is make a lot of money so I can marry and impregnate a girl two years out of school who can raise our perfect kids! Silly me :rolleyes:
     
  20. Konabumm

    Konabumm Konaboner

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    HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD
     
  21. splat

    splat Nam I am

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    Well Maybe Windows is Bearable ! Unix Rules !
    Don't you know Project managemnt software solves all these problems now a days !




    My wife is a stay at home mom , and It has been tough having to do it on one salary. Has it been better for the Kids ? I think so , but what do I know ? Quite frankly If she did go back to work it would have all been eaten up by Daycare. ( which did influance our decision a lot ) But Not every one is cut out to be a Home maker ! I know there is no way I could do it ! It would drive me crasy.

    I think this girl need to get out of school into the real world and get that reality slap that the real world has a habit of doing. It just sounds to me like the Degree she is looking for is not a BS , BA , MS ,etc , but an MRS degree.
     
  22. riderx

    riderx Monkey

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    She sounds like a genius. Go to school for many years for your bach. and masters degrees, spend lots of money on them and then only use them for 2-3 years :rolleyes:
     
  23. DRB

    DRB unemployed bum

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    I'd love for one of us to be able to stay with Willow everyday but that is not reality for us. We were lucky in that my in-laws are daycare for us. They read with her, teach her ABCs, counting, manners, and all sorts of stuff. All the while keeping the TV to a minimum. They take her to the library once a week for storytime. They go to freeplay at their church once a week.

    But that being said who's to say that really is better? My in-laws are bright people and do a wonderful job with Willow. However, starting in September Willow started a pre-pre school program at their church 3 mornings a week. I can tell a difference in her socialization with others, her verbalization has gotten way better, and she also seems more mindful. She seems to listen and react to commands better. With that she is also more independent, wanting to do even more on her own. Now most of that is all normal development, so it would have happened anyway unless we had continued to keep her locked in the closet.

    And lastly and probably more importantly she gets to do a lot of really cool things that many parents might not even think of, I certainly didn't. And those things are all part of a plan to make her better. Does the average stay at home mom go that far?

    I just think that generalizing with something as complex as children and their upbringing is rediculous. I think ultimately there are many different paths to creating a functioning young adult that we'll unleash on the world, some harder than others, all of them different but in the end as long as they get there is one truly better than the others.
     
  24. MMike

    MMike A fowl peckerwood.

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    I can't claim to be any great authority on child behaviour, so I am basing what I am about to say on what I have observed from a small handful of kids. The kids I have dealt with who were in daycare from a very early age...(like a year old), seem extremely aggressive. Whether it's some sort of insecurity, or a need to stand up for themselves in a group, or whether they are just jerks, I can't say. It just seems to me that the kids I have seen whose parents stay at home seem much more easy-going and confident.
     
  25. Westy

    Westy the teste

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    When I have kids I'm sending them to the mill to work all day while I stay at home. After they get all huge and strong from pushing the grindstone I'll make them send me the money they make from plundering villages.
     
  26. MMike

    MMike A fowl peckerwood.

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    Oooohhh... good thinking!! I need to make a call...
     
  27. valve bouncer

    valve bouncer Master Dildoist

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    There we go, well said mate.
     
  28. Brian HCM#1

    Brian HCM#1 MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!

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    That's not always true. Some tend to do better just for the fact they are taught to share and get along with other kids outside their families. I've seen several kids that were "stay at home" and do very poor socially because their world revolves around them and only them once they start preschool/kindergarten. I think the ideal thing is when a child is between 2-3 they are place in daycare once a twice a week, just to learn how to be with other kids. Plus gives mom/dad a break to regain some sanity.
     
  29. ridetoofast

    ridetoofast scarred, broken and drunk

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    pm sent but this is OH-phish-al

    bad mood = harsh words

    i didnt agree with his opinion but the flammage was unecessary

    my apologies to jeb
     
  30. jebfour

    jebfour Turbo Monkey

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    This is a solid guy.....actually sent me a PM saying basically saying the same thing.......

    I think it's pretty safe to say that we have all been in a bad mood at one point or another! No harm - No foul
     
  31. pixelninja

    pixelninja Turbo Monkey

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    Well said. Anyone who thinks there is one right way to raise kids is either stupid or naive or both. Maybe Jeanette's plan will work out for her, maybe it won't. I applaud her for wanting to be the primary care giver for her children, but in the real world, this may not work and hopefully she will realize that not all daycare workers have "backward or evil habits".

    My wife stays home and takes care of our daughter. Its her choice. And our daughter is pretty well adjusted socially. Just because she doesn't go to daycare, doesn't mean she doesn't get to interact with other children. My wife has numerous friends with young children and she also belongs to a mothers group. Evy gets to interact with other children on a daily basis.

    Currently we're taking a hit financially, but when our 2nd child comes, the cost of daycare would become more than the income Steph was bringing in, so this is actually benificial to us financially. For those who don't know, daycare IS expensive.
     
  32. ridetoofast

    ridetoofast scarred, broken and drunk

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    good for you man, good luck with both of yer youngn's, well when # 2 comes along that is :thumb:
     
  33. SkaredShtles

    SkaredShtles I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!

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    There definitely is a portion of society that probably wouldn't be able to make it on one income, but I think there is a significant portion that *could* make it on one, but can't face the reality of downsizing their life.

    Smaller house, crappy used cars, no new bikes, no dinners out, etc.

    Kids don't need their own rooms. Look at the baby boom generation that often raised 3 or four (sometimes more) kids in a 3 bedroom, 1200 sq. foot bungalo.

    If you and the spouse *want* to have one of you stay home I'd say - make it happen. Cut out the fat in your life and accept a lower standard of living.

    If you don't want to - don't. And don't feel guilty because some retarded graduate student claims your kids will grow up to be homicidal baby killers because of the "evil" people at daycare centers. :rolleyes: That girl has some real life that's gonna smack her square in the face once she gets out of the ol' Ivory Tower.

    I make an exception to the "not gonna grow up to be homicidal baby killers" for Westy. :p
     
  34. MMike

    MMike A fowl peckerwood.

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    Exactly. Same here. Saying that just because a kid is not in daycare, then they are locked up alone in the house with no interaction is pretty naive too.......
     
  35. ohio

    ohio The Fresno Kid

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    So I agree with most everyone in the thread that the article is ridiculously naive, that day-care can work well, and that a stay-at-home parent is ideal if possible.

    I DO want to comment on one thing... I see an awful lot of people compromise their children's upbringing for the sake of their own lifestyle. This applies to both dual-income households, single-income households, and (much more rarely) single-parent households. I've seen kids raised properly in all three settings. And I've seen kids raised horribly in all three settings. So many parents seem unwilling to make sacrifices for their children. Not sure if its a recent phenomenon, but it seems we're in an era of lazy parenting... something I'm much more concerned about than "the dissolving of the nuclear family."

    At the same time, hard for me to judge... I'm not a parent.
     
  36. Ciaran

    Ciaran Fear my banana

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    Heathen!!!!
     
  37. MMike

    MMike A fowl peckerwood.

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    Goes to show what I've become.....those Nanny 911 shows are actually a pretty good reference........

     
  38. Reactor

    Reactor Turbo Monkey

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    My wife is a stay at home. My daughter who is four and a half, knows her alphabet, numbers, can count, do simple math, and is starting to read and spell a little. For example she can spell 'love', her name, and most three letter words e.g. 'dog'. She also comprehends words like 'feral'.

    On the other hand, sometimes being a single parent is forced upon people by bad relationships, abuse and other factors. Single parents who manage to raise good kids deserve to be commended, not ridiculed. I'm just glad I have the opportunity to have a wife at home helping to raise my daughter.
     
  39. ohio

    ohio The Fresno Kid

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    Like I said, I've seen them all work:
    My mom (youngest of 4 girls) was raised by a single mother, during a time when that wasn't very accepted, and certainly wasn't catered to. Her family is one of the most balanced and close knit I've witnessed.
    My dad (oldest of 3) was raised by both parents, but they both worked to keep my grandfather's shop running. You'll see this commonly among the newly immigrated that are running their own businesses.
    I was lucky enough that my mother was able to stay home full time to raise my brothers and myself.

    They all worked well (in my opinion). For the most part the family is loving, balanced, and pretty successful. The common thread is not some perfect 2-parent, suburban household, church-going model. The common thread was that in each case the parents priority was the children. At work and at home, they weren't making money or finding spare time for themselves. They were making money and finding spare time for their kids, and keeping the two as balanced as possible.

    Can't thank my parents and grandparents enough...
     
  40. N8 v2.0

    N8 v2.0 Not the sharpest tool in the shed

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    MizN8 is a housewife/secretary/assistant contractor/errend runner/hot mama...

    Works out nicely actually... cuz I get to sleep with my secretary and my wife can't say a thing about it!!!!


    :devil: