[aenema]

I know its a 29'er and woo is going to have something to say but this is literally the most funnester bike I have ever ridden. I originally bought a large and shortly blew the Cane Creed db air cs that came with it and while waiting for that to be repaired, I picked up a monarch as a short shock option. Stock sizing is 7.88 x 2.25 giving it 140mm rear travel. I grabbed a Monarch off pinkbike in 7.88 x 2.00 to keep geo and give it around 125 travel for the mellower, pumpy, flowy trails and loved it so much I never bothered putting the Cane Creek back on after getting it back (running 140 Pike in front).

Well, I decided I was an XL guy so I sold my large to get an XL and for funsies, grabbed the new frame with a DVO Jade coil for the aggressive days and just finished my first real ride on it. Grinning from ear to ear for nearly all of the 20 miles we rode. I have never ridden a bike that manuals easier, pops off lips better, or rails a corner as well. Its literally something special and if you ever get a chance to check one out, please treat yourself. It was one of those experiences that you wish the world could share.

 

[Kurt_80]

 

[Sandwich]

No. No, man. Shit, no, man. I believe you'd get your ass kicked sayin' something like that, man.

I dig the Riot/Toir, but I don't understand why they did the headtube the way they did. Since they use an external headset, which adds 14mm to the stack height, and use a longer headtube as well, I'm looking at 25mm of added headtube stack over my equivalent large Following. I'd have to run flat bars and zero spacers to get remotely comfortable, and that's with a 120mm fork. I can't imagine the bar to ground height on such a bike with 20mm risers and 5mm of spacers. For a large dude on an XL it's probably not as noticeable, but for a regular guy on a large, it's clown bike status.

 

[aenema]

I have moved away from low bars in the last couple of years. I used to like them slammed and thought my cornering improved for having that weight over the front end. I raised it at some point because I was finding it harder to manual and thought I would just raise it enough to find that balance between low front end for cornering and still not needing to set up as much to get the front end up. Then I just kept raising it more and more as the bike became more fun, and more responsive and I never noticed a problem getting the weight over the front. I wonder if I just changed preferences or these longer reach numbers allow us to move around enough to still get weight where we need or want. I also find the taller bars give better bike/body separation for me which has aided me in my bike handling and comfort when things get wild.

It would be nice to have the option for an internal bottom cup though to give more options.

But seriously, people ask about a downhillers trail bike and this would be first on my list, so much fun every time I ride and, I feel like a little kid again discovering bikes for the first time. Planning my next ride as soon as the last one ends cause I can't wait to get back out on it.

 

[atrokz]

speaking of Canfield, I keep seeing balance frames pop up for sale on that 'other' forum. How has peoples experience been with them? Want a longer travel bike next year, so I can take it to bromont and not feel like I'm destroying my bike.

 

[StiHacka]

I dig my 2015 Balance which sits between the current Balance and the Riot. It is a great downhiller's trail bike in my opinion, loves to go fast and eats chunk with ease. Not good for slow noodling around so social rides with slow riders in tech or dudes who are on their brakes all the time are no fun.
I have a bunch of spacers under the stem so I don't see the external headset being a problem at all. After my CCDBACS blew up, I switched to DVO Topaz and I love that shock.

 

[aenema]

I have a buddy with a Balance and have ridden it a couple of times. Its a heavier build but still pedals surprisingly well. I had a Nomad and actually preferred the Balance going downhill. They made big changes/improvements in 2016 so I wouldn't look at the older ones.

 

[lobsterCT]

I agree with Stihacka's synopsis on the balance and the canfield stoke in general. Mine is heavy and miserable on slow trail rides where it is so tight and twisty you can't maintain much speed. It cleans up everywhere else. Technical climbing is much more enjoyable without the N3's midstroke wallow. I also like the shorter chain stays. I'm looking forward to switching it up on occasion with my proper DH bike at killington and thunder. I don't have first hand experience, but have read that the Canfield's that have separate upper linkage pieces feel more flexy than the ones with the unified upper linkage.

2017 XL Clydesdale cruiser that replaced a nomad 3. 600 lb rear spring on an avalanched VanRC. The front fork damping was set up by Push for the maximum recommended air pressure. I got email confirmation from them yesterday that the ASC 3 spring kit, currently maxed at 230 pounds, will have 2 yet to come heavier spring rates and will make that switch when it becomes available.

Misc Details: 1st gen derby DH rims on hadleys still running strong under a 250 pound rider on season 3. Drive train is a 10 speed 28-42 hodgepodge of XTR, Radr cage, and goat link. Have not had any back pedaling issues that people complain about with the newer shimano gear.

 

[Sandwich]

I have a bunch of spacers under the stem so I don't see the external headset being a problem at all. After my CCDBACS blew up, I switched to DVO Topaz and I love that shock.

yes but the Riot has and extra 1.5" of wheel under there. You're on less goofy size wheels. The problem is not in the system, the problem is the combination. This is why you see super short headtubes on bikes like the BMC trailfox or the evils. Shortening the headtube allows for lower bars, which keeps the bar height normal as compared to 650b or even 26. Adding longer travel forks makes 29ers even more fuckin' goofy.

Misc Details: 1st gen derby DH rims on hadleys still running strong under a 250 pound rider on season 3. Drive train is a 10 speed 28-42 hodgepodge of XTR, Radr cage, and goat link. Have not had any back pedaling issues that people complain about with the newer shimano gear.

that's because it's the 11 speed junk that shimano has issues with. they just pushed that last cog over the spokes. If you took your current setup and pushed the derailleur another cog closer to the wheel, you'd probably have problems too. Your current big cog is where it's supposed to be.

 

[StiHacka]

^ true about the pedaling efficiency - my bike did quite well at the Maah Daah Hey trail (over 100 miles in 3 days) monkeyfest last year.

 

[StiHacka]

es but the Riot has and extra 1.5" of wheel under there. You're on less goofy size wheels. The problem is not in the system, the problem is the combination. This is why you see super short headtubes on bikes like the BMC trailfox or the evils. Shortening the headtube allows for lower bars, which keeps the bar height normal as compared to 650b or even 26. Adding longer travel forks makes 29ers even more fuckin' goofy.

True, but the 29 wheel's extra height is just .75" though (correct?), and I have 20mm more fork than the Riot so I don't see the difference being that big. I am not going to really argue that as I have zero experience with 29 geometry though.

 

[aenema]

I actually have spacers under my stem on my XL, I'm only 6'2" with a 40mm stem so not exactly a giant man.

All I am saying to people is if you are ever handed a chance, ride this thing. It's something special and that is not always quantified by looking at numbers on the interweb geo sheets. If you are near Boise, ID I will gladly share.

 

[Sandwich]

True, but the 29 wheel's extra height is just .75" though (correct?), and I have 20mm more fork than the Riot so I don't see the difference being that big. I am not going to really argue that as I have zero experience with 29 geometry though.

you're right. I just noticed a lot of fit issues when I went to bigger wheels, the dilemma centered around getting my bars at the right height with bigger forks, wheels, etc. Right now I have just a low rise bar and maybe a single spacer on my setup with a 130mm fork, but I'm not everybody- just pointing out a potential fit issue that everyone else in the industry seems to have resolved.

 

[sbabuser]

I actually have spacers under my stem on my XL, I'm only 6'2" with a 40mm stem so not exactly a giant man.

All I am saying to people is if you are ever handed a chance, ride this thing. It's something special and that is not always quantified by looking at numbers on the interweb geo sheets. If you are near Boise, ID I will gladly share.

What's your inseam? I'm 6'2" w/ 34" inseam on a Lg Yelli, and am pretty comfy on it (altho I don't have a ton of time on it).

 

[aenema]

Same as you sbabuser. I was on a large Riot and liked it until I replaced my large Nomad with an XL Patrol. I realized I am an XL guy and upsized my Riot. 35mm stem on Patrol and 40 on Riot, I am very happy. I had a 50 on my large Riot for reference.

 

[lobsterCT]

that's because it's the 11 speed junk that shimano has issues with. they just pushed that last cog over the spokes. If you took your current setup and pushed the derailleur another cog closer to the wheel, you'd probably have problems too. Your current big cog is where it's supposed to be.

I have not used 11 speed.

On my balance, (142 rear) I had to use boost front chain line spacing to get my chain ring/ chain ring spider bolts to clear the rear swing arm. (wolftooth stainless ring on aluminum spider that regrettably bolts from the backside so the heads protrude). So by moving the front chain ring out, if messes up my low gear chain line similarly to what it would look like if my largest rear cog was further in but with the proper front chain ring spacing. The weird chain line is my least favorite thing about my build, but I don't have any backpedaling problems in the stand or on the trail. I would switch to a simple aluminum front ring without the bolts and spider if the chain line was giving me back pedaling issues.

sample size of one, so no statistically significant conclusion, but I would guess that there is a second factor to the 11 speed shimano issue.

 

[KenW449]

Is there any benefit to which way you run the shock? It makes more sense to run it standard way because of oil and such, but some put it on with the shaft facing toward the front. Is it just user preference?

 

[StiHacka]

Is there any benefit to which way you run the shock? It makes more sense to run it standard way because of oil and such, but some put it on with the shaft facing toward the front. Is it just user preference?

Mostly about frame clearance and accessibility of the shock controls like the climb switch.

 

[atrokz]

awesome, thanks guys. I also hate slow trails, and I'm not slow, so it might work out well for me. I love long, slack bikes and find my Process134 is too steep (running a longer fork to help) in high speed tech stuff and gets squirrely at speed. No idea who at Kona thought a 68deg HA on a trail bike was a good idea (their explanation is that the long TT makes up for it. no, it doesn't), but I can be certain that guy sucks. You suck, Kona guy!

Ballance looks perfect. I'll also try a Riot if I have the chance, but I don't see myself switching to wagon wheels with all the parts I already have.

 

[kidwoo]

You guys need to ride a Canfield Riot

No!

Ha!

 

[aenema]

Dammit!

 

[Cerberus75]

I ride a Riot. With Avalanche tuned suspension. It's great for the twisty rocky trails I ride.

 

[jstuhlman]

buddy had one-he liked it, and it definitely ate up some chunder, but something about the way the suspension cycled apparently caused his shock hardware to wear out in an out-of-alignment/off kilter sort of way. he went back to a 27.5 process 153 and loves it.