[marshalolson]

long story short, a lack of attention to detail on any super expensive anything is unacceptable, and the dorado is exactly this.

i tested it briefly and was rather underwhelmed. its fine, but certainly no better than anything else, and mostly not as good as the competition.

 

[IH8Rice]

The first dorado had a good damping system, but that's about it. Just over 8lbs with the integrated stem (a shiver was 8.7 with same). Poor lubrication, very small stanchions for an inverted fork, and so on. Most of those dorados self-destructed due to grease packing up and not "lubing" the stanchions.

hmm i guess i lucked out with having 0 issues with lubrication for the stanchions. it was a tad flexy yeah, but at the time i liked it a lot more than the Shiver i had at the same time...IMO
if they would have still had the upper carbon pieces to replace my cracked ones, i would still be riding it on one of my spare bikes. i still have it sitting around collecting dust. i wanna ride it, but riding cracked carbon bits probably isnt the smartest idea huh?

-Bad cable holder

the bad cable holder is the deal breaker youre right

-Multiple hits/high-speed hits "overwhelm" compression damping

Need to fine tune air settings and do some more testing with adjustments, to come to a clear conclusion on this preliminary issue.

 

[top_dog]

Have you ever seen the inside of the BOS stuff? I got to see some stuff completely torn apart and I wasn't impressed at all. Design/manufacturing quality on the guts left a lot to be desired IMO. Although there is little debate that their stuff looks cool on the outside, I just didn't think it backed it up internally. Bad piston design, raw alu parts with no hard ano/coating, etc.

I'm not sure what you've seen, but my BOS Boxxer cartridge is beautifully made; steel thread insert to prevent stripping, plenty of anodising etc etc. Build quality is better than Italian Marzocchi and on a different planet to ****ty plastic Rock Shox with dodgy misaligned bushes.

 

[toodles]

I've got a SPV Dorado in my garage as a wall ornament. Traded a set of Juicy 5s for them. When that fork came out, manitou was selling them for $4000 AUD. Within months, you couldn't give them away and Manitou was offering a free upgrade to TPC internals.

F*ck being the first person to buy a $4500 untested fork.

 

[JohnnyC]

I'm not sure what you've seen, but my BOS Boxxer cartridge is beautifully made; steel thread insert to prevent stripping, plenty of anodising etc etc. Build quality is better than Italian Marzocchi and on a different planet to ****ty plastic Rock Shox with dodgy misaligned bushes.

I'm guessing he thinks anodising means pretty colours, so no red, blue or gold parts inside=no anodising.

plain anodised aluminium only looks a little bit different to raw

 

[norbar]

Have you ever seen the inside of the BOS stuff? I got to see some stuff completely torn apart and I wasn't impressed at all. Design/manufacturing quality on the guts left a lot to be desired IMO. Although there is little debate that their stuff looks cool on the outside, I just didn't think it backed it up internally. Bad piston design, raw alu parts with no hard ano/coating, etc.

While there is little debating the cost of the new Dorado is high, it seems like a fair amount of people bitching about it are from Europe. Perhaps you guys haven't adjusted to the American dollar regaining some strength abroad yet.

FWIW, I am not sponsored by Manitou, but I do have a bit of time on the new Dorado. I really like lots of things about the fork. I reckon every one of you should get some time on it before you formulate an opinion on it, or its worth. But that makes way too much sense now, doesn't it?

Don't know about forks but the shocks seem pretty well build to me (for sure better than any manitou ) and well some ppl already had bos stuff and used their cardridges and gave them stellar reviews while manitou is still much more of an anknown. Paying extra 500euro for sth no1 that is not conected to the company have tried is a bit risky for me. Also well the price is simply damn ridiculous. It looks like they are trying to position themselves with the price as the top fork on the market and they set it much higher than anything on purpose which in my opinion is a bit stupid.

 

[Tamo]

Im sure its a really nice fork. And when correctly adjusted it will work super. But I dont think it will make you any faster riding a 40 or a dorado.. And for that price I just cant figure out how Manitou where thinking

 

[William42]

They're doing high price low volume. They'd make more money if they could do low price, high volume. But I don't think they can.

Its a sound financial decision, I think. Manitou has been out of the high end DH market long enough that nothing they produce will suddenly take over the market share the fox 40 or boxxer have. If they made butt loads of them, alot of them wouldn't sell. So they do it in low volume, do a crazy nice service policy, and a high price tag. Assuming people are really stoked on them (which it looks like people are so far) it will generate lots of hype and "OMGZ MANITOU ROCKS NOW" which will open the door for future high volume low price.

Probably the only way they could possibly hope to bust in to the high end fork market. Make it exclusive and "cool" and you generate alot of interest. Its like the new session 88. It may not really be a lot better then anything else, but it had a super high price tag (still does) and rides well, which generates alot of interest. Its like the opposite of the new giant glory. Massive volume, low price, who gives a fyck.

Its 6:47am and I haven't slept at all. Hopefully that made sense, but I expect we'll see a much lower price dorado in the future after sufficient interest has been generated.

 

[Patan-DH]

The first dorado had a good damping system, but that's about it. Just over 8lbs with the integrated stem (a shiver was 8.7 with same). Poor lubrication, very small stanchions for an inverted fork, and so on. Most of those dorados self-destructed due to grease packing up and not "lubing" the stanchions. It took them a while to figure out that you probably need oil in there for the rigors of DHing/racing, then they finally came out with the "evil genius" seals, which still left a lot to be desired, then they totally screwed it up with SPV.

As far as suspension action when lubricated, yeah the TPC+ stuff was pretty good, although no real way to increase the progressiveness. Technically TPC+ is "progressive" damping, but it's only that the initial travel is very lightly damped, and then the regular stack takes over as the travel progresses, but it's not really designed to change that rate or ramp up a lot at the end. I think that's one of the things that the new dorado addresses (saw/handled a few last weekend). I ain't going to say anything about it though, because I didn't ride it.

Yeah, getting parts from manitou is always sketchy.

GOOD POST JM
Very objetive and reliable writing.

leaving the AVY cult?

 

[Patan-DH]

Here's a little perspective:

$3500 (Price of Dorado)
-1800 (Price of 2010 Boxxer WC)
------
$1700

I just put a 9-day Whistler trip together for myself and 8 other guys. Average price of the trip including airfare, lift tickets, 9 nights in a luxury slope-side condo, transfers from YVR to the condo, etc. : ~$1600-$1700

So tell me this: would you rather have a fork that *might* be a little better, or a f*cking NINE DAY VACATION IN WHISTLER??

You still do not get it? It is not for poors riders like me, I rather take a wishtler trip like you, too. But the fork is hand made and State of the art tech.
Any pics of the cartidge yet?

 

[downhillracer]

I like how a reputable and stable company like Manitou is including servicing fees into the initial fork cost.

Does this alone give anyone pause as to the durability? It could mean nothing but it is very suspicous.

 

[norbar]

Probably the only way they could possibly hope to bust in to the high end fork market. Make it exclusive and "cool" and you generate alot of interest. Its like the new session 88. It may not really be a lot better then anything else, but it had a super high price tag (still does) and rides well, which generates alot of interest. Its like the opposite of the new giant glory. Massive volume, low price, who gives a fyck.

Well looking at the number of glorys a lot of ppl. Still a good point, yet still they went a bit to far with the price. Trek at least priced their bike at the same level as other high end components, not 2times the price.

Patan-DH - You'd be suprised how much ppl will buy this fork and later whine about having no money for the trips.

 

[ohio]

So tell me this: would you rather have a fork that *might* be a little better, or a f*cking NINE DAY VACATION IN WHISTLER??

Depends on who I have to share a condo with.

 

[JohnnyC]

Any pics of the cartidge yet?

There's a good video of how everything works here - http://www.sicklines.com/2009/02/24/preview-2009-manitou-dorado/#more-3693

The cartridge looks kinda cool with all sorts of trickery going on, not sure how it will all go on the trail though.

I don't quite get the air spring though, they seem have taken a very a long round about way to make something just like RS' solo air which is the simplest thing out there. Supposedly self-equilibrating but it still needs 2 air valves?? and still they need something to stop top-out?? (which from the review on NSMB doesn't work that well)

 

[yuroshek]

you guys gotta be kidding me. how many "hate" threads do you have to make about the dorado? i think everyone is just jealous, that is why people "hate" and talk "bad" about something or someone right????


hate this:

 

[Damo]

Word is they are selling just fine.

 

[worship_mud]

i don't give a f*ck about a fork that costs almost as much as a Intense m6 frame (or even more )! who in their right mindset would? i mean, we're talking 2500,-€!!!!!
Intense M6 frame @ CRC
that's simply insane. remember the outcry when rockshox announced their prices for 2010? a boxxer team will still be below 1000,- €, a WC ca. 1200,-€.

 

[John P.]

Depends on who I have to share a condo with.

When you bowed out this year, we were able to convince the Droppin' Loads guy from Howard Stern to take your spot. Should be a fun trip.

 

[Mulestar]

No fork is worth that. Go on the classifieds and look at all the pimp DH completes you could get for that.

I'll take a boxxer race and $3000 please.

by the way, I've ridden an '09 dorado. Good fork, just obscenely priced for a company with that kind of track record trying to get back on top of the DH scene.

 

[IH8Rice]

hate this:

okay. i hate this

 

[Tetreault]

Its a sound financial decision, I think. Manitou has been out of the high end DH market long enough that nothing they produce will suddenly take over the market share the fox 40 or boxxer have. If they made butt loads of them, alot of them wouldn't sell. So they do it in low volume, do a crazy nice service policy, and a high price tag. Assuming people are really stoked on them (which it looks like people are so far) it will generate lots of hype and "OMGZ MANITOU ROCKS NOW" which will open the door for future high volume low price.

Probably the only way they could possibly hope to bust in to the high end fork market. Make it exclusive and "cool" and you generate alot of interest. Its like the new session 88. It may not really be a lot better then anything else, but it had a super high price tag (still does) and rides well, which generates alot of interest. Its like the opposite of the new giant glory. Massive volume, low price, who gives a fyck.

I completely agree with what you are saying. I think its a marketing stunt and its probably going to work. All us e-kids getting excieted about "the best fork in the world". Is the price worth what you are getting? not a chance i dont care what anyone says it isnt. Whats the point of getting high quality race compenents? to go fast and be faster then you would be without X part. lets be serious here how much time is this fork going to shed off your race time? im better 0 seconds, there is no way this fork makes you better then a boxxer or a 40 no matter how technically advanced it is. Is the average joe going to really benefit from this fork.. heck no, but it looks tech, and is hyped like Dubai. From working at a shop i know exactly what kind of people are going to be wanting to ride this fork, its going to be the guys or even kids, that just want to spend as much coin as they can on a bike, they may be decent riders, but even with their double barrels, m6's and dorados, are still getting worse times then the guy on a stock glory.

 

[IH8Rice]

Dubai lives up to the hype though...this hasnt yet

 

[Muttely]

Being the guinea pig on a new product is not a good idea, especially one with SUCH a questionable company. Lerts be honest, Manitou has the most horror stories, and the worst reputation out of the Big 4 (RS,Marz,Fox and Manitou). paying £2500 for a fork, first of all, is a little bit special needs. who will, apart from the creme of racing, require more than a Full on TF Tuned Boxxer team, with perfectly sizes bushings, custom HSC tuning etc. that will cost, going on RRP, £900 odd, and with the new team more like £1300. even then, theres a nice what, 1200 left? on an unproven fork, with an un-desirable company, id much prefer the Team. im Running 09 40RC2's, and personally think they are the best fork on the market, having tried all forms of boxxer, and i ran races for a year, aswel as spending time on pre-08 Marzo, and trying a few manitou's left alot to be desired. Back to being the guinea pig, im paying the price for buying a session 88, which after 6 months, is now off to trek with hopes of a replacement due to them deciding to make it out of coke cans, if i do get a replacement, it will promptly be sold and i will be getting a Solid Mission 9 as they are far more reliable, even though there is a weight penalty.

Conclusion?

Wait a year, see how they go, hear from people who really ride their gear, the general consumer, see what manitou do in 010, and then pick up a set.

 

[BikeFan84]

Gosh....the Manitou Dorado is so worth 3900. It does....ah what exactly does it do that makes it worth the extra 1000.00 over the most costly competitors, Oh wait this just in it falls apart and the internal dampening looses its function after just 3 rides compared to the typical 5 rides of later years... Good thing Hayes bought them, now they have sh1t brakes and their sh!t breaks.

 

[downhillracer]

Good thing Hayes bought them, now they have sh1t brakes and their sh!t breaks.

 

[Electric_City]

Unless you're racing in a WC race, this fork is useless. At what point will the rider realize that the $5,000 bike didn't make them any better. What will a $$$$ fork do for their $hitty riding. I can see people at Diablo riding these saying how awesome the fork is as they sit on the bench bragging. Maybe we'll see how fast they bomb down the fire road with that fork.

FWIW. I'm not bragging about my riding by any means as I don't dig drops on the Sunday. I do like my DH though and to just go and have fun without giving a F about what other people think. EC

 

[dropmachine]

According to CRC, the M6 is $4200+ Canadian.

The Dorado is $4100 too.

Considering that the shock on the back of the M6 has been built by Manitou (so they have done all the really tricky stuff) why is the M6 considered ok and the Dorado not?

 

[woof]

Remind me never to split the bill at dinner with you cheapos. I know I"ll get stuck paying for half your food and your part of the tip.

 

[Metal Dude]

Maybe I'm just an ignorant southerner but, is it the exchange rate or does every one
just want to hate on the fork that bad! I thought retail was 2700 USD but,
everytime I read this thread it has now doubled in price according to this bunch.
I think things are worth what they are worth to that individual who pays for it!
I didn't pay that much for mine but, I can tell you it is a sick ass fork and all
you haters are just sad.

I don't know how to put a price tag on the best riding fork around so I can't tell you it's economic value but, if you want the sickest fork then fork out the doe!

 

[woof]

It's all about what people are willing to pay for something they want. In the past month, we have bought a BBQ Grill for $800 (a $300 grill would have cooked burgers but we wanted the $800 one), a Dell laptop for $1800 (could have got one for $800) and a fire pit for the back yard ($285 - could have made a circle with rocks for free). It's only money and you can't take it with you when you die.

 

[demo 9]

What i would like to know is, is it worth the difference, a fox 40 is 1800 and this is 3500? USD? Does it really have twice the smoothness and stuff a 40 would have? or boxxer WC. i mean i know certain people hate certain things but is it really that much better. if u get 1/10th more fork for 200% of the price, are you winning?

 

[Inclag]

I'm glad that you sponsored riders for Manitou like your forks (haha I used forks correctly in the plural!). It really stinks when you are getting a deal on something that doesn't work as you would like. However, do realize that there are alot of good reasons why some people won't buy this fork (track record of Manitou/1st year product and price), and others like myself that don't understand how a product that had many parts and tooling already engineered and designed all the way back in 2005 (for a MSRP of $1499) can justify the current price.

I'll also say, that maybe those of you sponsored by Manitou should try being a little more helpful with your descriptions of the fork (I'm sorry ridez awesome doesn't cut it when some people are very particular about low/high speed compression settings, ramp up, midstroke performance, rebound, fade, etc etc etc....) and open up a conversation to individual members to disprove fallacies and assumptions that they are making about the fork. Throwing out a blanket statement that everyone is hating is a) wrong and b) a bit sad in that it is coming from sponsored riders who I would expect to conduct themselves differently.

 

[yuroshek]

Unless you're racing in a WC race, this fork is useless. At what point will the rider realize that the $5,000 bike didn't make them any better. What will a $$$$ fork do for their $hitty riding. I can see people at Diablo riding these saying how awesome the fork is as they sit on the bench bragging. Maybe we'll see how fast they bomb down the fire road with that fork.

FWIW. I'm not bragging about my riding by any means as I don't dig drops on the Sunday. I do like my DH though and to just go and have fun without giving a F about what other people think. EC

EC come see me at diablo, not sure exactly when ill be there due to races along the east coast but ill let you take a run on it and you tell me how it feels. you can straight up tell me it sucks or not. this goes out to anyone, if you see me on the mountain or in the pits hit me up and ill let you take it for a spin. i would like to get other peoples feedback on the fork.

dennis

 

[freeridefool]

Even if the new dorado is the greatest fork that will ever be made, the high price doesnt make it worth it. When you can buy two new boxxers for the price of one dorado something is horribly wrong. I like my 05 dorado, but Ill still take it over the new dorado because of the price.

 

[davep]

Dennis you are benefit to your team, for sure. I don't know you, nor anyone else responding here, but the difference in your response in comparison to your team mates is astounding.





BTW, MSRP is ~$3350. If you are getting free product in exchange for promoting said product.....should you not know at least a little bit about that product??? How do you give back to the mfg that is paying your bills, when all you have to offer is 'dude, it's rad... if you think otherwise, you are stupid'....


This is definately one of those times when the response from the people that are supposed to be beneficial....are instead a detraction and will most likely push people away instead of draw them in.

 

[Damo]

I think this thread is going the wrong way.

The intention was not for etards to post their ereviews and ehate on this fork.
Most of you have no idea what this fork feels like.
I have heard from riders that actually ride the fork that it works pretty damn well.
I have heard from mechanics that it is a dream to work on.

What I was bringing to attention was the price difference between this brand and two other brands which have won titles.

Can they justify the massive leap in price? Probably not.
Do they care? Probably not. They are after all selling pretty well. 100 units were made and they are pretty much accounted for.

I have stayed in places which charge US$1500 a night to stay in. It really made me think that some people have more money than brains. But that also those people will get nice things.

For what it's worth, it was a beautiful place. But I have had more fun in a $5/night bamboo beach hut in Asia, but that's not a good comparison for this topic now is it!

 

[yuroshek]

Dennis you are benefit to your team, for sure. I don't know you, nor anyone else responding here, but the difference in your response in comparison to your team mates is astounding.

thanks dave, i feel right now since everyone is hating the fork and the price i want to let people ride it and see what they think of it. i have been racing the fontana races this winter and i have let numerous people try and they all have said it feels "amazing" but this is only parking lot tests. the real test is on the hill where your actually going to notice a difference in this fork compaired to others. now fontana isnt really the best place to take a spin on the bike since you either a) have to hike or b) wait in line. but back home on the east coast will be easier for people to test out. i feel this fork is going to work very very good in the rock sections. i wish there were more rocks out here in so cal. but seems like people make trails going around rocks and not thru the gardens lol.

my team mate Jason Memmelaar has been riding his now for 2 weeks or so and he LOVES the fork. he says it tracks very good and he has more confidence in the more GNAR terrain. he can hold his lines better and faster. says memmelaar. and for those who dont know memmelaar, you will soon.

some pictures of jason on his team Giant 2wheelfreaks.com race bike:

 

[atb]

Unless you're racing in a WC race, this fork is useless. At what point will the rider realize that the $5,000 bike didn't make them any better. What will a $$$$ fork do for their $hitty riding. I can see people at Diablo riding these saying how awesome the fork is as they sit on the bench bragging. Maybe we'll see how fast they bomb down the fire road with that fork.

FWIW. I'm not bragging about my riding by any means as I don't dig drops on the Sunday. I do like my DH though and to just go and have fun without giving a F about what other people think. EC

i suck i riding bikes, i need all the help i can get

 

[kidwithbike]

Disclaimer: i am not a businessman or suspension engineer, i am a racer sponsored by Manitou. I admittedly cannot venture to explain the economics of the fork, offer a cost-benefit analysis, or evaluate Hayes's business plan.

You all have your right to opine on the subject, but I will reserve my judgement till i ride it hard out in San Diego next week and continue to shralp on it all season. Initial impressions with the fork and the concept are quite good.

I do know that from my experience David Lee and the people at HBG have their act together, give admirable service and they are forthwright and honest. I would recommend watching the tech video on Sicklines, i learned a lot.


I can comment about the fork tubes altering the bar height. I am very particular about having very low bars; my bars were lower on my DH bike than my XC bike iirc they are under 41" .and i like my bars twisted back far so that the backsweep is level or slightly
My set up is a Glory DH Large 5.1" headtube, 3/4" rise 31.8 bars, 50mm sunline stem, short crown, dustcap removed w/ 2mm spacer in there instead. The crowns are slid down as far as possible so the bottom edge is right at the taper in the gold Al fork tube part.
my setup is totally slammed, if i had to raise my bars i would have been dissappointed but i didnt, i only had to roll my bars foward a few degrees, i positioned the wrench flats on the top cap in such a way there would be no chance of interference.

NSMB's claim that you would need to raise your bars 2/3" inch seems to be a special case since they mounted it on Flatline which has a very very short 4" headtube... anyway, doesnt a similar situation occur with other large Stanchion forks? like a 40?

The offer to test ride the Duderadyo also extends to my bike! Since my opinion cant be considered impartial or without bias I will allow you to form your own. You can twist all the knobs around and everything!

 

[EGGS]

if you have to justify it that means you cant afford it !!!!