Athiests and Christians have screw-ups on both sides. Some of the worst people in the world cited God in their justification of their acts. Morality and religion do not necessarily go hand-in-hand.
You lucky high school students!
- Thread starter LordOpie
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Im going to ask god for a Rotec right now!
I also have a non-participatinginourkidslife ex wife. Total loser who has no clue what she is missing out on with our child. He is 15, plays guitar, made the Varsity soccer squad and just made the honor roll, again!
(He got all As and Bs, and his report card said "Not working up to full potential...I am scared. And very proud.)
And a higher power has been cited in millions of wrong doings over time. And millions more right doings...
(He got all As and Bs, and his report card said "Not working up to full potential...I am scared. And very proud.)
And a higher power has been cited in millions of wrong doings over time. And millions more right doings...
i guess i did come across as using faith as a main excuse for morality, but really i was just flapping about myself.
i know very well that no matter who you are, what you practice or beleive in, etc. you will make mistakes and have some big screw ups here and there, i know i did...
those who commit evil acts and cite God as their excuse are absoloute idiots, if it was a crime against another person, there is no way that they can use God as an excuse, for if they truly beleive in the Lord, then they would know that He created man in his image and is always forgiving. therefore He cannot be used in any situation to justify evil means...
IMO the reason many people have no respect for themselves is that they have no true self-esteem and figure that if someone that they think is cool is doing it, that somehow it must be the best thing to do... and as people have said, they also have no respect for the consequences of their actions, therefore in their mind, if it feels good- do it....
i am 16 by the way, turned in October '07
i know very well that no matter who you are, what you practice or beleive in, etc. you will make mistakes and have some big screw ups here and there, i know i did...
those who commit evil acts and cite God as their excuse are absoloute idiots, if it was a crime against another person, there is no way that they can use God as an excuse, for if they truly beleive in the Lord, then they would know that He created man in his image and is always forgiving. therefore He cannot be used in any situation to justify evil means...
IMO the reason many people have no respect for themselves is that they have no true self-esteem and figure that if someone that they think is cool is doing it, that somehow it must be the best thing to do... and as people have said, they also have no respect for the consequences of their actions, therefore in their mind, if it feels good- do it....
i am 16 by the way, turned in October '07
Being a Christian for the first part of my life, walking away from my faith for years, and coming back, I can say that I had a lot of time to inspect, logically, some of the things that affect the way people are. Morality can be based without religion, but morality becomes less what is "right" and what is "wrong", and more what is "good for the masses" and "good for the individual" and "bad for the masses" and "bad for the individual". It's an odd concept to get into in such a forum, so I'll stay away from it.
Some call faith saving grace, and some don't. Some call faith a crutch, and some say it's a valuable asset. Religion as a whole makes me so angry as when a group of highly-imperfect people gather, both good and bad are bound to happen. And don't even get me started on the petty disagreements inside the church that aren't even about the "right" or the "wrong", but about the opinions of the voting members on the Board of Directors.
Either way, I know that for me, my faith has saved me from many mistakes. And my inappropriate way of explaining my faith (typically in my younger years giving people the "turn or burn" speech) has lost me a lot of friends or potential friends.
Live and learn, I say.
Some call faith saving grace, and some don't. Some call faith a crutch, and some say it's a valuable asset. Religion as a whole makes me so angry as when a group of highly-imperfect people gather, both good and bad are bound to happen. And don't even get me started on the petty disagreements inside the church that aren't even about the "right" or the "wrong", but about the opinions of the voting members on the Board of Directors.
Either way, I know that for me, my faith has saved me from many mistakes. And my inappropriate way of explaining my faith (typically in my younger years giving people the "turn or burn" speech) has lost me a lot of friends or potential friends.
Live and learn, I say.
...still waiting for that Rotec 
Awesome, H8R for fighting the good fight. I imagine (I don't have kids) it is becoming more and more difficult to raise kids as our culture continues to do it's thing. That being said, I think the kid's personality has a lot of say in it, too, and no one way of raising them is going to work on them equally.
My parents were really pretty laid back about stuff, but then again, I never really pushed their boundaries. I was always home on time, never drank, never smoked, did drugs, and got mostly A's. (Damn math... never could get an A in it.) Got pretty close to losing my virginity at 17 years old, but the girl got psycho and my next chance didn't present itself for another two years.
My younger sister was a bit more of a rebel and they had some problems with her, to which they adjusted their parenting style. She never got in any REAL trouble but she was certainly headed that way with her HS boyfriend before they locked her down.
I do remember my parents allowing me to have alcohol when I became curious about it... maybe 14 years of age. They never allowed an entire beer or anything, but would allow me sips. They even offered to BUY me some pot "if I was curious" because they would rather me experience it in a safe environment with them than anywhere else. I never was curious, though and the thought of smoking pot with my parents just completely lost any fantasy I had about it. Suddenly became very un-cool. I never did it (though I experimented as an adult - 25 years old or so).
Anyway... interesting read. Props to all you parents out there. You've got more guts than I do. I do want kids and it's getting time (I'm 34) but I'm really petrified of raising them in today's world.
My parents were really pretty laid back about stuff, but then again, I never really pushed their boundaries. I was always home on time, never drank, never smoked, did drugs, and got mostly A's. (Damn math... never could get an A in it.) Got pretty close to losing my virginity at 17 years old, but the girl got psycho and my next chance didn't present itself for another two years.
My younger sister was a bit more of a rebel and they had some problems with her, to which they adjusted their parenting style. She never got in any REAL trouble but she was certainly headed that way with her HS boyfriend before they locked her down.
I do remember my parents allowing me to have alcohol when I became curious about it... maybe 14 years of age. They never allowed an entire beer or anything, but would allow me sips. They even offered to BUY me some pot "if I was curious" because they would rather me experience it in a safe environment with them than anywhere else. I never was curious, though and the thought of smoking pot with my parents just completely lost any fantasy I had about it. Suddenly became very un-cool. I never did it (though I experimented as an adult - 25 years old or so).
Anyway... interesting read. Props to all you parents out there. You've got more guts than I do. I do want kids and it's getting time (I'm 34) but I'm really petrified of raising them in today's world.
My parents let me drink occasional wine and/or beer from about 12.
They also let me light their cigarettes when I was a kid, say from about 8 years old. I mean, WTF MOM?
I've been drinking coffee since I was 5. Seriously.
My mom left my step dad when I was 13, I took that as an excuse to bail all the time and party. I'd leave the house for weeks at a time and go get high/drunk at punk shows and crash on couches.
Of course I started smoking too.
By the time I was 16 I stopped taking acid and drinking so much. I got into speed for a couple years. I saw how quickly it destroyed people so I walked away from that.
When I look back at what I did and how much it felt like my parents didn't give a fvck, it really hurts. I was free to do anything I wanted but way too young to keep myself out of trouble. I think the only thing that saved me was that a) I'm not a complete dumbass (arguable) and b) LUCK (mostly that!)
Today I am clean and sober and I don't smoke. I've been that way for years. It takes me a month to drink a six pack if one ends up in my fridge. I drink even even less if it's not there.
All I know is my kid won't have to turn to any of that. She may have free reign to experiment and/or fvck up as much as she wants when she is an adult, but not on my watch. I'm giving her what I missed so much - a parent that gives a fvck.
They also let me light their cigarettes when I was a kid, say from about 8 years old. I mean, WTF MOM?
I've been drinking coffee since I was 5. Seriously.
My mom left my step dad when I was 13, I took that as an excuse to bail all the time and party. I'd leave the house for weeks at a time and go get high/drunk at punk shows and crash on couches.
Of course I started smoking too.
By the time I was 16 I stopped taking acid and drinking so much. I got into speed for a couple years. I saw how quickly it destroyed people so I walked away from that.
When I look back at what I did and how much it felt like my parents didn't give a fvck, it really hurts. I was free to do anything I wanted but way too young to keep myself out of trouble. I think the only thing that saved me was that a) I'm not a complete dumbass (arguable) and b) LUCK (mostly that!)
Today I am clean and sober and I don't smoke. I've been that way for years. It takes me a month to drink a six pack if one ends up in my fridge. I drink even even less if it's not there.
All I know is my kid won't have to turn to any of that. She may have free reign to experiment and/or fvck up as much as she wants when she is an adult, but not on my watch. I'm giving her what I missed so much - a parent that gives a fvck.
Wow... sorry. My parents certainly "gave a fvck" as you put it, but I just never pushed their boundaries. I suspect that had I, they would have come down about exactly where you are with your daughter. Again, maybe it comes down to the kid's personality. I just wasn't interested in that sort of thing so there never was any mystery to it. Anyway... just wanted to give you props for taking on parenting... I'm not ready for it yet.
Anyone who says they are is a liar.
ya my parents put rules on me i dont like most but some i do cus i have come the conclusion that there just trying to keep control. but the one about not being alone with girlfirned sucks it just is like well we want to be to gether and leave us alone doesnt work. only major problem with that
o and all the sluts get laughed at school. we enjoy making funn of them
o and all the sluts get laughed at school. we enjoy making funn of them
we keep it fairly similar here, although my kids are still a bit young for most of the stuff you're referring to. disrespect isn't tolerated, manners are promoted and rewarded, my girls know how important they are and there is no question that they're loved.Mine does.
Honor roll student, does her chores, doesn't get in any real trouble.
You know why? We watch her like the Eye of Sauron.
She's not allowed to roam around after dark.
She's not allowed to hang out with her boyfriend alone.
She's not allowed to have her door closed if she has her boyfriend over.
We know where she is at all times and we make sure she checks in on her cell regularly.
If she fvcks up and doesn't call or changes plans without us knowing, we ground her.
If she wants to go hang at a friend's, we talk to the parents. If they aren't there, she doesn't go.
If her chores don't get done on time or she misses stuff, she gets none of her small allowance.
Homework comes first before anything.
Grades below a B are not tolerated. (She gets mostly A's)
She must have a part time job before summer.
And you know what? I don't give a flyin fvck if she's not happy with any of that.
Any kid who gets pregnant in school has only the parents (or lack thereof) to blame. Period.
i am privvy to a lot of "my daddy was never there for me" sob stories at work so i try and take whatever went wrong in their lives and do the opposite w/ my kids, especially my girls. apparently my wifes parents and mine as well did something right because neither of us have ever been w/ anyone else which is so rare these days it's like getting struck by lightening.
now, my next concern is how i'm going to handle the dating issue in about 10-12 years from now. my cousin actually makes his daughters and their dates sign a "rules of dating my daughter" agreement before they're allowed to leave his house. i know that my profession alone tends to cause anxiety in some boys but i'm going to spend the time i have left devising a creative and effective way to encourage having a good time dating w/out all of the drama and risk because i think the 'meeting the date at the door whilst cleaning a shotgun' bit is overplayed
Are you saying teaching evolution in school makes kids behave badly?
It starts now.
You are handling it by raising them right. They will have mad self esteem and that is what will keep them out of trouble. (or at least it gives them a better chance...)
Later, you simply need to let the boys who come around that you are there, you are aware of what's going on and you talk to them and make sure they know you are vigilant. That, combined with the fact that you're a cop who will be older and angrier in 10 years will keep most boys in line.
Sometimes God's answer is NO! Or you could try holding your breath...still waiting for that Rotec
that is part of my arguement so essentially, yes.
i am NOT implying that creation needs to be taught in schools, though personally i would like it to be, but simply that we need to look back at the effects that these teachings have on many kids and how this THEORY has affected the actions of many people in history... i.e. Hitler, Stalin, the Columbine shooting, etc. along the history lines, i am NOT denying that many wacko's have used religion as their defense for their actions, i mean crap- the muslims have to kill anyone who doesnt convert according to some rule in their religion, but the majority of massive genocides and such have been influenced by the idea of evoloution.
IMO
am i ranting?....
Hardly. Go look at some statistics, atheism is not related to genocides. Name one crime where evolution is cited as the reason.
A lot of awful crimes are influenced by people assuming that they are on a higher level than those they attack. Any genocide, actually. Whats the difference between Hitler calling Germans a better race than those he killed and Osama Bin Laden calling himself more worthy to live than non-muslims? Any belief system can be bent to justify awful acts. What about those Mormon brothers who were brought up as good, creationist people? They bent their faith to justify killing a woman and her infant daughter.
Basically you're saying we should present this one belief system because it's better, I say any belief system that promotes peace and respect is fine, with or without evolution.
edit: I grew up and went to high school in a very atheist, earthworms-are-distant-relatives, Christians-and-republicans-are-kooks place, and I graduated with some of the nicest people I know, none of whom believe in God and all of whom believe in evolution.
You're a lunatic.
Do you attend a non denominational Christian church/belong to young life?
You need to study history.
The Third Reich was practicing eugenics based on mystical beliefs. It had nothing to do with evolution and more to do with RELIGION and HERITAGE.
Yes, you're ranting. Check your facts before you make unwarranted assertions.
thank you
That wasn't said as a good thing.
Religious fanaticism in ANY form is a bad thing. You're no exception.
There is quite a bit of data to support the concept that girls with absent/inattentive/neglectful/drunkstoned/abusive fathers have a lower sense of worth, earlier/more sexual activity, more drug use, and all sorts of other not-fun stuff.<snipped>
i am privvy to a lot of "my daddy was never there for me" sob stories at work so i try and take whatever went wrong in their lives and do the opposite w/ my kids, especially my girls. apparently my wifes parents and mine as well did something right because neither of us have ever been w/ anyone else which is so rare these days it's like getting struck by lightening.
now, my next concern is how i'm going to handle the dating issue in about 10-12 years from now. my cousin actually makes his daughters and their dates sign a "rules of dating my daughter" agreement before they're allowed to leave his house. i know that my profession alone tends to cause anxiety in some boys but i'm going to spend the time i have left devising a creative and effective way to encourage having a good time dating w/out all of the drama and risk because i think the 'meeting the date at the door whilst cleaning a shotgun' bit is overplayed
Love them, be there, be interested and involved, teach them self respect and self worth and to set the bar high enough, and I think you'll be fine. And then they should be fine with making good decisions and choices.
It's heartening to read in here how quite of few of our younger monkies appear to have their heads screwed on very straight.
edit: and their parents too!
gg
my daughter is 14 now..
She's a smart kid.. never made a C, is in the Magnet School system, rides mountain bikes occasionally, works at a horse farm where they take dis abled kids on horseback... No real bf yet... i told her she can date when she's 29...
She's a smart kid.. never made a C, is in the Magnet School system, rides mountain bikes occasionally, works at a horse farm where they take dis abled kids on horseback... No real bf yet... i told her she can date when she's 29...
i wasnt saying it in a good way!!!
as i focking said IN EVERY ONE OF MY POSTS, i'm just EXPRESSING MY OPINION!!!!! got it?
am i hurting someone here? if so, tell me and i will make amends!
and dont tell me that my side is religious and the other side is scientific, because both sides are religious, you have to beleive in one or the other. while i'm not implying this to YOU robdamanii, i'm giving everyone the heads up that evoloution in every form other than Micro-evoloution(changes within the KINDS), as much as it may be regarded to as a science, is not a science. you cannot observe, test and repeat evoloution in any form but Micro-evoloution, and their so called evidence for it in the "geologic column" is based on circular reasoning; in the "red shift"/"Big Bang Theory" the speed of light is not a constant, and if the big bang theory were true then the Conservation Laws would have to be false.... etc., etc.
i attend a non-denominational Christian church, yes.
why?
and Robdamanii, thinking back to how i'm a lunatic, well thats what they said to Noah when he was telling everyone about the imminent flood.... check out what happened to them.
They lived happily ever after. Just like in all the other fairy tales.
Damn inbreds!
I love how being religious excuses you from knowing history or using logic. Awesome.
There's no proof of any biblical flood you ass.
They even made a Discovery channel special on how there's no evidence.
Does PSP claim religion as his excuse?
I love how being religious excuses you from knowing history or using logic. Awesome.
Lets all just become scientologists, this guy would never make us kill people
dont even get me started!
and you don't have to call me an ass to make a point. Sorry to upset you on your (naturally selcted) throne
Grand Canyon?
Tectonic Plates and Fault Lines?
Sahara Desert(largest desert in the world- dated only about 4000 years old)
Oldest Tree on Earth(~4000yrs)
Underwater vents and ruins?
The f-ing oceans, you know how scientists believe that Pangea existed at one time? Well the continents didn't float out of place, they were just covered with water.
Keep in mind that the idea of 40 days and 40 nights of rain wasn't just atmospheric alone, but also subterranean as well. As you may know, by discovery channel's complete and thorough explaination, there are underground pockets of water held at extreme pressure beneath the earth's crust. Well, if the chance arose that those pockets could be relieved of that pressure then a lot of water would be sent miles into the atmosphere and in huge quantities. This in turn could cause the rapid sedimentation and period known as the "ice age" from all the minerals expelled in the giant geyser, and it's process of supercooling at high altitude. Hence all the fossils and the 40 days of rain. If you think about it, that under the entire surface of the earth there is a layer of water, there would surely be enough to form the oceans we see today. So as you look at geographical features such as the grand canyon it would make a lot more sense that a large amount of water formed it in a very short amount of time than a little river in a long amount of time. And if you still don't believe just that part, take a look at the canyon walls. They are very steep, not a general characteristic of a small, slow moving river, such as the Colorado. In addition to that (yes there's more), the river would have had to flow uphill at one point, where the canyon walls are higher downstream, by a few hundred feet
and there's more if you'd like to hear it...
Please do. I haven't had a hearty laugh over pseudoscience in a while.
Are you actually trying to say that the grand fvcking canyon was a result of the biblical flood?
Creationism isn't satisfied w/ just humankind? It's geological history as well?
Hilarious!
You might as well say the Easter bunny is born from chicken eggs and Snuffalufagus is the talking descendant of woolly mammoths.