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Your take on NORBA?

BKQuill

Turbo Monkey
Dec 19, 2004
1,016
0
Rangers Lead the Way
Are you going to show up for a national, or are ya going to boycott them?

I haven't been at this long, but I have come to learn that NORBA is one sorry ass organization (and I thought that the BMX sanctions needed help). And with the latest issue of Decline, I hope someone finally wakes up, but I doubt it! :mad:

I do know that listening to the Pro's and other rider's is vital, but it seems that NORBA is a little full of itself. Maybe there is more to the story then I what is being said, but it sure seems that NORBA doesn't care about the "gravity" racers/riders.:nuts:
 
hmm this should be another interesting bash on NORBA thread....i will eb there cause i have to due to my job. but i think they are going downhill. my thoughts on if they can pull their heads out of their asses will probably be determined in LA. the fact that most people believe they need to find a venue close enough to a large population has been a key idea for a while....this will be it, but can they pull off a 4x course to show talents? we will see. will they advertise in teh surrounding are enough to draw pepople out for that weekend? we will see. if they cant get their act together for that race, i have little hope of the series surviving more than another year or so without new promoters or something. and for those of you i dont see at the nationals this season, i sure as hell dont blame you. go to crankworx, go to the open, go to the moutnain states cup. support racing that is done well, supports the riders, and progresses the sport in all aspects.
 

HRDTLBRO

Turbo Monkey
Feb 4, 2004
1,161
0
Apt. 421
:stupid: haha...good call. Every NORBA thread ends the same way, a bitchfest about the poor job the organization is doing to keep gravity racing alive.
 

BKQuill

Turbo Monkey
Dec 19, 2004
1,016
0
Rangers Lead the Way
Well, I have a full bowl of popcorn and a couple of Becks Dark on ice. Besides it's a little chilly here in SC, so I could use some flames to warm it up.

Or maybe I should appologize for stirring up the pot, or reopening a can of old worms, since I really didn't search for previous threads, my bad.

I beg for forgiveness!!!!
 

b stevens

Chimp
Jul 12, 2004
67
0
I think they listen and they are trying, thats why there's so many class' and types of racing & their changing stuff all the time, but their still failing, there's no need to even do a national to be the national champion, wtf! and the cost of racing nationals has gone thru the roof and for what, a 3 dollar medal and maybe a sweatshirt:drool: , the bang for the buck is really bad in norba right now I don't have the answers on how to fix it but do feel there needs to be a championship series and ranking system. I still plan on going to mammoth this year still but really feel I'm getting the short end of the stick when I go.
bmx racing really is a pretty good deal right now compared to lots of other racing, nbl has the two day nationals each day is seperate depending on the drive you can go for one day and do a national compared to 4 or 5 to do a norba national
no bitching here just wishing, wishing we had a series worth going to where pro's got payed and every one else wished they were a pro. my2cents worth of crap!
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,257
7
Reno 911
I qualified for Mammoth last year and didn't go. What do you think I think of NORBA?
 

bballe336

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2005
1,757
0
MA
The whole organization is just not doing too well. NORBA needs to get get some cash together. The entry fees are whack. For $65 dollars we should be getting more. NORBA is bringing in more than enough money to give a cash prize. I also think that more practice time should be alotted. I will be attending a couple races this year and hope that it is better than it was this season. But, with lack of press coverage and horrible organization I don't see anything getting better just yet.
 

blt2ride

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2005
2,334
0
Chatsworth
It's no secret that NORBA sucks, but it's pretty much all we have. To answer the question, I'll be hitting up some Nationals next year--not sure which ones, yet. Probably just Brian Head and Mammoth...
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,604
282
Walden Ridge
Last year I went to Snowmass and Snowshoe. This year I'm only going to Sugar. I can't see the valve for traveling to another NORBA. I'd much rather travel to Snowshoe for their series or to Diablo's Domination series. Much better valve and fun.
 

Msisle Dad

Monkey
Jul 1, 2003
570
0
Catonsville, MD
Norba isnt what it could be, but it's what we have.

We are racing the 4x/ds schedule including Mammoth , but passing on Brianhead. We will also be providing Norba with feedback along the way in an effort to improve the series.
 

Cant Climb

Turbo Monkey
May 9, 2004
2,687
10
Putting on a successful National series is as easy as running your mouth. That's what i have gathered after all these years....

So are there any takers....?
 

MtnbikeMike

Turbo Monkey
Mar 6, 2004
2,639
0
The 909
b stevens said:
I think they listen and they are trying,
They sure are trying, but I'd have to disagree on the listening part. At the end of the season, a bunch of pro's sat down with TBB and presented their ideas as to what can make the seires better. A chick on the C'dale team offered to make a busoness proposal for the series, and others offered their ideas as well. From the racers' perspective meeting seemed to go over well, they went away from the meeting feeling like they made progress.

A couple of weeks later, Tom Speigel called the C'dale chick back and said something to the effect of "I've given some thought to what we went over in the meeting. I've been putting these races on for 20 years, I think I know what I'm doing."
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,923
9
Over your shoulder whispering
There are alot of primary issues that need to be addressed.
But first and foremost I think is a division of specialization!

DH, MTX, DS all should have their own separate weekend from XC. Why? Because our sport has too many different types of riding to hold in one weekend at ONE venue to be successful. Sponsors don't buy into it because XC and Gravity are different PRODUCTS! You'll never go to a FIS World Cup Downhill Ski event to see a bunch of Norweigans win the Cross Country cause they don't have them!!

My true and honest belief is that NORBA needs to separate XC and Gravity Nationals. Look at the successful gravity and XC events in America!!!
Crankwerx
US Open
Monster Park
Red Bull Rampage
24 Hours of Moab
Iceman Cometh
Pedro's Festival
Bump & Grind

Specialty events are easier to sell to a sponsor visually, conceptually and quantatively and simpler to market to the public. They are easier to manage, thus keeping costs down. They are easier to advertise in specific magazines, stores, etc. The consumer (racer) responds better to an event focused solely on their discipline!

2. Venues do not share enough of the burden for turnout!
The venue is who stands to make the most money from a high turnout event. Someone mentioned advertising locally to draw spectators. NORBA and Team Big Bear/Blue Wolf Productions have NO BENEFIT in doing so.

The burden of advertising and drawing a crowd of spectators should fall upon the host venue. They are the ones who benefit from 50,000 screaming fans in sales of whatever they can think to sell!!!

If you have no spectators at a Miami Dolphins football game, are you going to blame the NFL for empty seats...or the stadium and team owners who make the money from ticket sales for not selling the locals on the event?
 
i agree with most of what has been said, except for the division of disciplines. well ina way i agree, but it will make it way too difficult for teams to show up to these events, or at least teams that are running both disciplines. the trucks cost a LOT of money to run/have at events, and to double them up on weekends that they need to be at will make huge scheduling conflicts in both the realm of having two events on the same weekend as well as time to be able to get from one venue to another. not to mention increase in cost for them to run their rigs.
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,923
9
Over your shoulder whispering
Zman said:
the trucks cost a LOT of money to run/have at events, and to double them up on weekends that they need to be at will make huge scheduling conflicts in both the realm of having two events on the same weekend as well as time to be able to get from one venue to another. not to mention increase in cost for them to run their rigs.
see the above list of successful events that are split between disciplines and the pro trucks that make their way to those events. US Open was on the opposite coast of most all the major teams and they showed for it.
 

SpasticJack

Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
344
0
I'm over them.

IMO the perceived value NORBA brings has gone down year over year ever since OLN bagged out.

They are encouraging sandbagging by forcing experts to buy "annual" licenses.

Their race fees are higher yet there is almost nothing for prizes.

The pros don't really get paid so they tend not to show up. no pros = minimal turnout from the factory trucks = minimal support for your gear at a "national" level event.

For what I spent last year just in race fees and licenses, I would have been more than halfway to a season pass @ Snowshoe.

I'll see y'all up at the 'Shoe all summer.
 

dhbuilder

jingoistic xenophobe
Aug 10, 2005
3,040
0
having been a norba member since 1985, i've seen a serious decline in the "bang for the buck" their membership has to offer. it used to be you got your renewal form in the mail and you sat right down and renewed. now you get it and wonder "why bother". most of us operate at a grassroots level, and that's exactly who they have left behind. high entry fees with nothing in return exept being allowed to ride the trails or courses at the location their traveling show comes in and takes over. at the time they say you can, leaving you with most of the rest of the day to do wander around wishing you were riding instead.(i understand you can't have all day open practice, but i've been to enough nationals around the country to see a lot of idle d.h. course time.) that leads to over crowded practice sessions with racers clogging up the more technical sections while they overcome their fears. so then you return to you hotel, clean and dial in your bike for the next days two hr. session hoping that maybe then you can drop in early enough to get a clean run in before the log jambs start. and that's just one issue with going to a national. not to mention the ever decreasing pro turnout. the best thing we can do to break the stranglehold they have on the sport, is to go out of your way to support anyone who goes through the trouble to put on a non-norba event. my serious racing days are long behind me, but i wouldn't mind showing up at a grassroots non-norba event. throw down a reasonable entry fee and try to see how many young guys finish behind me. i'm hoping snowshoe's d.h. series next year is not norba controlled, and is sucessfull. so that other promoters or groups can see that we can get along just fine without them.
 
bizutch said:
see the above list of successful events that are split between disciplines and the pro trucks that make their way to those events. US Open was on the opposite coast of most all the major teams and they showed for it.
not last year. the only team trucks that showed were cannondale, iron horse and morewood. and cannondale has a truck on that side of te country so it was a short dirve, and iron horse is based on that side of the country. yes fox, hayes, magura (which was their east coast truck) came but no other pro team trucks showed up there. and yes those events are awesome, but i am talking more in the realm of a national series and dividing the events and having a truck show up at each event.
 

bikenweed

Turbo Monkey
Oct 21, 2004
2,435
0
Los Osos
Specialized gravity weekends and endurance weekends is a great idea. Of course, make them alternating weekends, so companies with only 1 team truck have the possibility of making both, if they wish to spend the money. With this plan Crankworx and Brian Head might not conflict, but I wouldn´t put it past NORBA to....

Maybe NORBA could put a little more effort into getting sponsors, then again, do we really know if they try and get shut down, or if they don´t even try? Maybe NORBA should get sponsored by an insurance company. I think more alcohol and tobacco sponsorship is the key. Not many cyclists smoke, but the tobacco companies have plenty of money. Amstel, I believe, was at Snowmass, which was rad. Beer garden next to the 4x course? I thought that was excellent planning. It seems like NORBA is aware of the suckage, but the efforts to improve are halfassed.
 

bikenweed

Turbo Monkey
Oct 21, 2004
2,435
0
Los Osos
Oh yeah, hiring Nate Wessell or Fuzzy Hall to build the 4x or dual courses would be a great idea as well. Fuzzy was at the Deer Valley race, and didn´t seem too stoked on the small jump and berms. Might as well pay him to use HIS OWN tractor to build the best dual course NORBA has ever seen. He will know exactly what to build after seeing a few photos, and it will get done right.
 

bigdrop05

Monkey
Mar 26, 2005
427
0
NORBA really didn't impress me too much back in 99-2000 when i liked to race some.Seemed like the day drug out & nothing started on time & it was just a big bore. I am not the type to wait on people & am more regimented & punctual-so it pisses me off to lolly around some quiet boring venue & your girlfriend or wife is bored to death,then you feel bad about even being there..Something like that is how i remember it !

All NORBA has to do to advertise -is rent a Billboard off the highways for a month before in areas within 3 hours away. If you aren't a biker in the internet you would never know about any bicycle race"would you" !
Plus, i maybe think some riders are just taking racing too seriously like it's going to be thier career & livelihood, or just to make money at it, & make it big......eh...No!
.02
 

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,456
10
This thread is amazing!

"I spent $5,000 dollars on a race bike but am going to complain about a paying 65$ for an annual license and another 50$ for each race."

Complaining about prizes, c'mon. How many of you drive to these races, spend all this money on a bike, train, then put yourself in near-death situations for some swag from a bike company? For me its about competing against others and the satisfaction of doing well.
 

biker3

Turbo Monkey
Banshee Rider said:
This thread is amazing!

"I spent $5,000 dollars on a race bike but am going to complain about a paying 65$ for an annual license and another 50$ for each race."

Complaining about prizes, c'mon. How many of you drive to these races, spend all this money on a bike, train, then put yourself in near-death situations for some swag from a bike company? For me its about competing against others and the satisfaction of doing well.
Totally agree, I'll see you at the Nationals. Everyone loves to complain about Norba but no one actually has a plan for big level racing in the US. It sucks until its gone, then what?
 

motomike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 19, 2005
4,587
0
North Carolina
biker3 said:
Totally agree, I'll see you at the Nationals. Everyone loves to complain about Norba but no one actually has a plan for big level racing in the US. It sucks until its gone, then what?
I'll see YOU at the nationals :sneaky:
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
3,500
679
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
tacobelldhr said:
I think you all need to get banshee hardtails and put 888's on them and go huck somewhere.
No you're wrong, they need Monster t's on their hardtails! Wait nevermind that got me DQ'd from the last NORBA race I went to. Southridge is the only good race venue I've seen in a while.
 

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,456
10
biker3 said:
Totally agree, I'll see you at the Nationals. Everyone loves to complain about Norba but no one actually has a plan for big level racing in the US. It sucks until its gone, then what?
I'm all the way up here in maine. The only NMBS event you'll see me at will be mount snow. See ya there :thumb:
 

tacobelldhr

Monkey
Jun 1, 2005
231
0
lake forest
maxyedor said:
No you're wrong, they need Monster t's on their hardtails! Wait nevermind that got me DQ'd from the last NORBA race I went to. Southridge is the only good race venue I've seen in a while.
....


Finally someone agree's with me about you crie babys....Shut up and race...The day i see you get top 20 at a UCI event dont talk shiot on norba....:nope:
 

trailhacker

Turbo Monkey
Jan 6, 2003
1,233
0
In the hills around Seattle
tacobelldhr said:
....
Finally someone agree's with me about you crie babys....Shut up and race...The day i see you get top 20 at a UCI event dont talk shiot on norba....:nope:
You don't need to be one of the top pros in the world to see they aren't delivering a product equal to the fees?

This is a quote from an email I got from support@usacycling.org yesterday:
"...Financially USA Cycling is well on its way to regaining the fiscal soundness that was in jeopardy a number of years ago. We have continued to add services to our members and expand out athletic programs while increasing our financial reserves, which now amount to almost $4 million."
If they have $4 million in reserve, how come they can't pay the pros?

To me, it seems NORBA's decline started when they "merged" with the USCF.
Another quote:
"...Total membership will exceed 54,000 licensees by the end of the year, which includes over 39,000 USCF licenses..."
"NORBA continues to hold firm at just over 14,000 licensees up from under 11,000 in 2003. The additions of new races, the State Championship System and the dedicated National Championships have all contributed to the resurgence in NORBA."
Resurgence? Didn't NORBA have like 30,000 members in the mid to late 90's?
It seems to me like they cater to their bread and butter, the road crowd. Not knocking them but from what I have heard about the huge division in what support MTB's got for world championships vs. the support roadies got seems to say just that.
 

WheelieMan

Monkey
Feb 6, 2003
937
0
kol-uh-RAD-oh
trailhacker said:
You don't need to be one of the top pros in the world to see they aren't delivering a product equal to the fees?

This is a quote from an email I got from support@usacycling.org yesterday:
"...Financially USA Cycling is well on its way to regaining the fiscal soundness that was in jeopardy a number of years ago. We have continued to add services to our members and expand out athletic programs while increasing our financial reserves, which now amount to almost $4 million."
If they have $4 million in reserve, how come they can't pay the pros?

To me, it seems NORBA's decline started when they "merged" with the USCF.
Another quote:
"...Total membership will exceed 54,000 licensees by the end of the year, which includes over 39,000 USCF licenses..."
"NORBA continues to hold firm at just over 14,000 licensees up from under 11,000 in 2003. The additions of new races, the State Championship System and the dedicated National Championships have all contributed to the resurgence in NORBA."
Resurgence? Didn't NORBA have like 30,000 members in the mid to late 90's?
It seems to me like they cater to their bread and butter, the road crowd. Not knocking them but from what I have heard about the huge division in what support MTB's got for world championships vs. the support roadies got seems to say just that.
I think they are delivering a product equal to the fees.

There are tons of bike products that are not worth the cost, yet people still buy them. Like x.0 shifters for $250? No thanks. Even at employee cost that's a ripoff. So it's shocking to me that so many people complain about the cost of racing. Buy some x.9 shifters and save $200, there's an idea.

As an amateur I could really care less about prizes, pro purse, etc... Most of us race for the competition, not to win something.

Why don't all of the manufacturers contribute something like 10$ each for a pro purse? It would be for the good of the sport to attract the big name pros back to NORBA, and with each company chipping in a little bit it could easily be done.

I'll see y'all at the western nationals!