[azonicbruce]

I recently changed my oil in my '05 Z1 FR 1 (150mm). After draining the oil and pumping the fork to make sure all the oil got out of any valves, I filled the legs back up with the recommended oil volumes specified by Marzochii. For my weight the chart says 125cc for the RIGHT leg, and 140cc for the LEFT leg.

However, I noticed that the fork doesn't seem to be getting full travel anymore. It seems to bottom out/get harsh at about 4.5" of travel. This is with no air pressure in the right leg. Sag seems to be ok at about 30% travel.

What is the problem? My first guess was perhaps my oil levels were somehow too high. So I removed a bit of oil from the right leg. But it didn't seem to help at all.

Before I go emptying both legs and starting over again, is there anything that I'm missing? Or that I'm doing wrong? Perhaps I have the left/right leg levels backwards? It's my understanding that the leg with the rebound is the RIGHT leg, and the one with the ETA is the LEFT leg. Is there something else that's going wrong?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Boxxer]

Def. sounds like some sort of hydro lock out. Maybe you didnt fully empty before adding for whatever reason.... The Z1s are pretty simple inside so I doubt it could be anything else.

 

[joelsman]

you should have measured what you took out to compare to what you put in. if you still have it measure it, this will give you an idea, other wise unscrew the top remove springs and make sure your cartridges and lowers are working smoothly. if they are you prolly just have more oil than you need, remove about .75in's of oil(measure from the top down, fork compressed), test and remove or add more oil.

 

[azonicbruce]

I never really figured out how to remove the springs. Doesn't it involve unscrewing the red fasteners? What tools are needed? On my old Z1 I could never figure out how to do that w/out having to use a pair of vice grips to keep the shaft from rotating.

 

[rockwool]

It's my understanding that the leg with the rebound is the RIGHT leg, and the one with the ETA is the LEFT leg. Is there something else that's going wrong?

It's always riders left/right, no matter what fork brand.

 

[vitox]

undo one of the top caps at a time and see if you can get it to bottom, be careful so no oil jumps out and gets you.

most likely it is indeed too much oil, you might not have gotten all the old oil out.

 

[davep]

I never really figured out how to remove the springs. Doesn't it involve unscrewing the red fasteners? What tools are needed? On my old Z1 I could never figure out how to do that w/out having to use a pair of vice grips to keep the shaft from rotating.

the red thing is a jamb nut. It is simply snugged up against the top cap to keep it (the top cap) from comming loose.

To remove the springs, push the spring down and put a 10mm open end on the red nut. Now use a socket or crescent an gently loosen the top cap from the shaft. If it feels very tight, you might want to get ahold of an axle clamp for the shaft, and thread the nut down to loosen the jamb...rather than the cap up....a broken damper shaft will cost lots of $$. It seems as if the over tightened issue was common to '04 888s almost exclusively, so I would not expect a problem.

As others have said, my guess is too much oil. If you did not remove the free bleed needles when purging the old oil (and let the cartrages sit in a pan for a while), there can easily be 10cc of old oil left inside the damper cart. I am always surprised at how much oil seeps, and seeps, and seeps out of my 888 dampers.

 

[davep]

Perhaps I have the left/right leg levels backwards? It's my understanding that the leg with the rebound is the RIGHT leg, and the one with the ETA is the LEFT leg. Is there something else that's going wrong?

Any help would be appreciated.

according to this:

http://www.windwave.co.uk/documents/techinfo/oil level charts.pdf (UK distro for Marz and source for MUCH more info than marz USA)

the larger volume goes in the damper leg..ie NOT the eta side

 

[azonicbruce]

If you did not remove the free bleed needles when purging the old oil (and let the cartrages sit in a pan for a while), there can easily be 10cc of old oil left inside the damper cart.

What's the free bleed needle? I usually leave the fork upside down draining into a bucket for 15-20 minutes. Maybe because I didn't have the springs off I couldn't cycle the rod to get all the oil out?

 

[azonicbruce]

according to this:

http://www.windwave.co.uk/documents/techinfo/oil level charts.pdf (UK distro for Marz and source for MUCH more info than marz USA)

the larger volume goes in the damper leg..ie NOT the eta side

Hmm, this is a bit of a problem. So which is it? Brian? Are you out there?

Any other Z1 owners out there? What do you usually put in?

I'm going to attempt to redo the oil and see if that makes any difference.

 

[Kornphlake]

Man I'd never buy something like an industrial shredder with a hydraulic damping system, changing the oil on one of those things would be really tricky, it's a good thing the engineers who design stuff like that don't need to know how to service it.

 

[azonicbruce]

Ah yes. I knew my ol' pal would chime in. When's the last time you cracked open that Super T of yours?

 

[azonicbruce]

Ok, so either I must be doing something wrong, or the oil flask I bought is WAY off on its measurements.

I removed the springs as instructed

Now, look at the oil level of the right leg. Seems really high to me. Much higher than I ever remember my '02 Z1 ever being.

Now, look at the oil level in the left leg. This seems much more reasonable. So I figure is HAS to be that there's too much oil on the right leg.

So, I cap the left leg. And dump out the oil in the right leg. I cycle and cycle the damping rod to make usre all the oil gets out. I also cycle the fork itself. I let sit for 15 minutes. Jeez, I just changed the oil about a month or two ago. Already pretty dirty.

Then, I CAREFULLY measure out 125cc of oil. To clarify the confusion as to which volume goes to which leg, the next picture will clearly show that 140cc would probably be too much. 125cc brings the oil level to pretty much the same height as when I first opened the fork. Pop the spring in there and it's sure to spill out if you compress it all the way.

Another shot of the left leg

I was going to do the left leg, but I didn't have enough oil left. Sooo, I don't know what to think really. I'm going on a ride tomorrow morning, so I guess I'll just have to try it out and see, but so far, with a "bounce test" it seems to be behaving the same way.

Are there any red flags going off for anybody here? Do these oil levels look about right to everyone? Or am I missing a step? I still don't know what the bleed needle is that davep's talking about.

Thanks for all the help so far. Hopefully I'll get this squared away.

 

[vitox]

davep is referring to the long needle that goes inside the rebound shaft, its there in your pictures, silvery with an allen 3mm or 2,5mm end, its not necessary but it would make the oil drain faster if you removed it, thats all.
cant really see from the pictures but it looks like you have at least say 3 inches of air there and thats what id reckon as minimum for being able to use full travel, the oil level in the first picture is way of thats for sure.

 

[Kornphlake]

Isn't measuring the oil height from the top crown the preferred method of getting the right oil volume, wherever you got the information that says to use 125 ml of oil is wrong, you've got way too much oil. I'd do an intarweb search for you but I'm sure someone else has the information more readily available. Ditch your graduated cylinder and measure the oil height instead.

 

[azonicbruce]

Well, using oil heights would be great, but Marzocchi doesn't give any numbers for oil height, just oil volume (in cc, not fl oz). Also, I got these numbers directly from Marzocchi's website. The same numbers appear on Marzocchi USA as well as Marzocchi Italia and Marzocchi International.

http://www.marzocchi.com/spa/mtb/products/oillevel.asp?LN=UK&Sito=usa-mtb&Y=2005

I agree with everyone that it seems way too high. It's possible the numbers from Marzocchi could be wrong, but it seems more likely that I may be doing something wrong. I guess the next step would be to simply keep taking oil out a little at a time until it gets full travel.

Although, this morning's ride went fine. The fork felt fine, but I wasn't really doing drops either, just one. Still, I would think in the steeps where it's really rough it would get a bit more travel than the 4-5/8" I got by the end of the ride.

Here is a pic of part of the ride:

Another shot:

 

[azonicbruce]

Hmm, so Saturday I cracked open the forks again to try and take out some oil. Lo and behold the right leg oil level is about 2 inches lower than when I took the picture after filling it (and cycling the damper rod up and down).