Zee brakes vs formula the one

Nick · Oct 4, 2021

Zee brakes, esp with metal pads, work great.
Then again, you might (will?) start to get a wandering bite point as the pistons age, requiring more frequent bleeds and the probably "oh shit" moment.

I was riding XT and/or Saint forever, recently changed to TRP Evos and will never look back. 4,500' of rowdy, steep descending yesterday. I've owned and loved The Ones too (I think stoney still has those) but these TRPs are the shit.

StiHacka · Oct 4, 2021

Zee == the same bite point wandering issue with the occasional lever-to-bar horror like other Shimano brakes.

jonKranked · Oct 5, 2021

bullcrew said:
So I'll pass and sell the zee brakes

i'll give ya $50.

Redwood Mulch Chucker · Oct 5, 2021

Nick said:
Zee brakes, esp with metal pads, work great.
Then again, you might (will?) start to get a wandering bite point as the pistons age, requiring more frequent bleeds and the probably "oh shit" moment.

I was riding XT and/or Saint forever, recently changed to TRP Evos and will never look back. 4,500' of rowdy, steep descending yesterday. I've owned and loved The Ones too (I think stoney still has those) but these TRPs are the shit.

Been looking at TRP brakes for a while now. Seems like they check all the boxes these days; mineral oil, same pads as Shimano 4 piston, and even a funnel bleed system.

It's like they took Shimano brakes, removed the wandering bite issue, made the rotors thicker, and went up to 220 and 223 rotors!

Nick · Oct 5, 2021

Redwood Mulch Chucker said:
Been looking at TRP brakes for a while now. Seems like they check all the boxes these days; mineral oil, same pads as Shimano 4 piston, and even a funnel bleed system.

It's like they took Shimano brakes, removed the wandering bite issue, made the rotors thicker, and went up to 220 and 223 rotors!

they do use their own sized bleed fitting, none of my shimano or other misc bleed stuff worked. If you get a pair, I recommend that you buy a bleed kit.

jonKranked · Oct 5, 2021

bullcrew said:
I couldn't sell em to you, I'd lose sleep over nightmares of you crashing due to a bad product I sold you....lmao
Kidding if the price was right I'd lose no sleep....just make you sign a waiver lmao

Got a guy wanting em today so it will offset some of the cost on new bike

I do like the zee levers though I think it's a good design for my hands it fits really well...but I don't need anymore oh shit moments from outside sources....I do it all on my own already.

my local bike park is only 1000' vertical, and the longest steep sections are under 100'.

if it makes you feel any better i'm still using saint m800 brakes from when they first came out. before the wandering bite point feature was introduced.

jonKranked · Oct 5, 2021

bullcrew said:
I hadn't heard about the wandering point issue

you haven't been around for a while. it's pretty well known. i have 2 sets of "affected" xt brakes, but the issue has only ever manifested itself when i flip my bike over, in part because the terrain around here doesn't have long / steep enough descents.

Redwood Mulch Chucker · Oct 5, 2021

Nick said:
they do use their own sized bleed fitting, none of my shimano or other misc bleed stuff worked. If you get a pair, I recommend that you buy a bleed kit.

Thanks, actually found a shop with them in stock and ordered a set & bleed kit.
220 rotors on the way!

SylentK · Oct 5, 2021

Just incase people are reading this and thinking they should burn all their Shimano brakes...

The Shimano wandering bite point thing isn't the end of the world. I still love all my Shimano brakes, but it's because I understand them and have learned to deal with them.

A few things I've learned:

1) When you start getting that wondering bite point, bleed the lever using the cup. Following all the bleeding protocols that have been touted. (too many to list here, but usually everyone already knows) That usually clears everything up. [I haven't found significant enough proof that a "full bleed" to be better than just a "lever bleed" with Shimano. YMMV.]

2) When pads start getting thin, replace them. Don't wait until they're totally gone. This can contribute to the issue. Check your pads when you bleed. If in doubt, swap them out.

3) Never store your bike anyway other than like it is being ridden. Hard to do some times with holiday travel, storage, shuttling, even lifts. But doing this can get air into the lever. See #1. [I've been so anal as to tell the liftees to NOT put my bike on the front wheel hanger on the side of the lift, and to wait for the tray. He didn't like it, but then again, he doesn't ride my bike

)

Happy Trails!

And let us know just how awesome your new brakes are!

Redwood Mulch Chucker · Oct 5, 2021

Agreed, I still love the feel and function of Shimano brakes. They do require more work in general (bleeding) to keep them running consistent. But it is very easy to put the funnel on and do a bubble bleed.

They are difficult because I really like letting the bike sit upside down to get the lower bath oil back around the bushings and foam wipers in the fork. Makes them feel soooo nice.

But can also make the Shimano brakes feel sooo sketchy..... :eek:

The wandering bite point tends to rear it's ugly head in the worst times like super rough terrain or just after you lean the bike over to rail a berm...and find the lever hitting the bar.

6thElement · Oct 5, 2021

Nick said:
4,500' of rowdy, steep descending yesterday

Tell me about that 1000ft descent over the last mile

Nick · Oct 5, 2021

6thElement said:
Tell me about that 1000ft descent over the last mile

is that right? fuck all, I believe it. that was steep.

6thElement · Oct 5, 2021

Nick said:
is that right? fuck all, I believe it. that was steep.

It's actually more like 900ft in the last 3/4's of a mile, that first quarter mile was pretty mellow.

Jm_ · Oct 5, 2021

SylentK said:
Just incase people are reading this and thinking they should burn all their Shimano brakes...

The Shimano wandering bite point thing isn't the end of the world. I still love all my Shimano brakes, but it's because I understand them and have learned to deal with them.

A few things I've learned:

1) When you start getting that wondering bite point, bleed the lever using the cup. Following all the bleeding protocols that have been touted. (too many to list here, but usually everyone already knows) That usually clears everything up. [I haven't found significant enough proof that a "full bleed" to be better than just a "lever bleed" with Shimano. YMMV.]

2) When pads start getting thin, replace them. Don't wait until they're totally gone. This can contribute to the issue. Check your pads when you bleed. If in doubt, swap them out.

3) Never store your bike anyway other than like it is being ridden. Hard to do some times with holiday travel, storage, shuttling, even lifts. But doing this can get air into the lever. See #1. [I've been so anal as to tell the liftees to NOT put my bike on the front wheel hanger on the side of the lift, and to wait for the tray. He didn't like it, but then again, he doesn't ride my bike )

Happy Trails!

And let us know just how awesome your new brakes are!

So how does all that stop the lever engagement from moving outwards when you are on steep sustained terrain where subsequent squeezes result in this phenomenon? Eventually the lever is engaging damn near full-out. If you can let go and let it reset for a second, it goes back to normal, but you can't "let go" on terrain like that...

SylentK · Oct 5, 2021

Jm_ said:
So how does all that stop the lever engagement from moving outwards when you are on steep sustained terrain where subsequent squeezes result in this phenomenon? Eventually the lever is engaging damn near full-out. If you can let go and let it reset for a second, it goes back to normal, but you can't "let go" on terrain like that...

Yeah man, I'm not sure. I'm no Shimano Scientology Scientist

But I'd assume there was air in there.

I went to Crested Butte this summer and had that happen. It was weird. Like they were totally pumped up, but depending on the terrain, I could repeatedly squeeze the lever and get them "back to normal". Like for some reason, the brakes let me "reset" them on a flow trail with really choppy braking bumps, but not on a super steep chute trail that was actually really smooth. I was thinking I should bleed the brakes. Perhaps the altitude had something to do with it as well?

That was with XTR 4pots that I haven't bleed yet in over a year. Still haven't.

Hasn't happened again even after going to Vail for a long weekend (back to high altitude). Now that I think about it, I have no idea. Weird. I'd blame it on the vortexes but we don't have any of those in CO that I know of :think:

Nick · Oct 5, 2021

I used Shimano brakes (XT and Saint) forever, since 755s, and never had a truly oh-shit moment riding, but I was super aware when they'd start to feel off and bled them very often. For as easy as it is, it became preventative maintenance for me. Quick 10-min bleed and they felt great for the week.

Did I mention how much I love these dhr-evos? :cupidarrow:

6thElement · Oct 5, 2021

No issues with my new Code RSC and 220mm rotors, not the cheaper Code R levers.

buckoW · Oct 5, 2021

Hayes A4 Dominion still working nicely for me.

Jm_ · Oct 6, 2021

SylentK said:
Yeah man, I'm not sure. I'm no Shimano Scientology Scientist But I'd assume there was air in there.

But air is spongy, pretty obvious IME.

Cerberus75 · Oct 6, 2021

buckoW said:
Hayes A4 Dominion still working nicely for me.

I just got them. And it's the first set of brakes I've been excited about.

Cerberus75 · Oct 6, 2021

Jm_ said:
But air is spongy, pretty obvious IME.

I've had them not work right after a meticulous bleed. Seems they're good for a season and after that they don't like going through rocks.

canadmos · Oct 6, 2021

Try both out..

I know personally I wouldn't ride with Code R's, at least not with how they feel on my girlfriend's bike (sample size of 1, yeah I know). They always feels very spongy, kind of that feeling where you need to question if they are starting to do anything or not.

HAB · Oct 6, 2021

buckoW said:
Hayes A4 Dominion still working nicely for me.

Same here. They're great.

mykel · Oct 7, 2021

Granted, they are only on the trailbike, but another vote for the Dominion A4's.
The big bike , has Hope T3V4's and I would not mind going to 220/225 or whatever they are rotors. Love the feel, but they are not as strong as the A4's.

Jm_ · Oct 7, 2021

mykel said:
Granted, they are only on the trailbike, but another vote for the Dominion A4's.
The big bike , has Hope T3V4's and I would not mind going to 220/225 or whatever they are rotors. Love the feel, but they are not as strong as the A4's.

Yep, you need to over-rotor the Hopes to have good bite. I'm really happy after doing that, good power and such, but equal size, there are better options for all out power/bite.

I just got me a TRP 2.3 223 to replace my magura 220 Storm for next season...

mykel · Oct 7, 2021

Jm_ said:
Yep, you need to over-rotor the Hopes to have good bite. I'm really happy after doing that, good power and such, but equal size, there are better options for all out power/bite.

I just got me a TRP 2.3 223 to replace my magura 220 Storm for next season...

That is what I am looking at to replace my toasted old-school 203 Magura Venti's
Any thoughts? Issues with the extra width and alignment rub etc?

Redwood Mulch Chucker · Oct 8, 2021

Jm_ said:
But air is spongy, pretty obvious IME.

Whatever is in there (air/water/alien blood) expands when heated from continuous braking (leading me to think it's mostly in the caliper), thus pushing the lever out. When you release to reset, it bleeds the excess fluid into the reservoir and back to normal. The air/water/blood may or may not go out and the same is likely to happen again.

The issue with Shimano brakes is they have a problem with letting "something" in. Whenever I go to bleed them, air is always present in the reservoir.

In other new, these arrived yesterday. Damn that lever/master piston is chaunchy as my boy would say! The XTR finish is a nice touch.

Zee brakes vs formula the one

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