zee vs guide rsc

kickstand · Oct 17, 2016

I switched from zees to guide rsc's, couldn't be happier with the upgrade.

My zees were inconsistent junk.

My rsc's have great power, great modulation and are incredibly consistent.

My wife also runs and likes the guide rsc.

For the record the zees have been the only problematic brake for me thru the years, I still use them on my fatbike for snow riding where I don't really "need" brakes.

I have shimano slx on trail bike which have been free of any of the issues my zees had.

Also have owned other xt and slx, avid elixir of multiple iterations, juicy's, codes, code r, etc. zees have been the only brakes I'll make 100% sure to avoid.

sbabuser · Oct 17, 2016

I like my guide rsc's, but wasn't really impressed with them until I switched brake pads. Trucker pads are cheaper than stock, and the organic semi metallic compound gives a lot more power than the stock pads.

CheetaMike · Oct 17, 2016

own both and Guides hands down , ZEE have incredible braking power but no modulation when compared to the Guide,s

Gary · Oct 18, 2016

I only have the guide RS (2016) but so far they absolutely piss all over ALL the shimano brakes I've ever used.
and I don't mean in a horrible dot fluidy mess kinda way.

Gary · Oct 18, 2016

freeriding said:
but i am a bit concerned of the issues that read in multiple forums.

What are these?

Mo(n)arch · Oct 18, 2016

Gary said:
What are these?

Teh Germans seem to be less then impressed with the Guides in general. Not sure why.
I like my Guides and my X0 trails.
I think they're great. If someone needs more power, I'd try other brakepads like @sbabuser mentioned together with other rotors to try and improve the contact surface between dics and pads. To me the new Sram discs seem a little flimsy tbh. Not scientifically approved yet, though.
Is someone in here that uses the Guide-Code combo labeled as E-bike brake? A lot of pros run this setup and I think Specialized mounts this combo on their Demo aswell.

kickstand · Oct 18, 2016

No sticky levers on either of our sets of guides.

I will say the lever reach knob can be a little cheesy from time to time, but otherwise light years better than zees. Even after the shimano guys rebuilt my brakes at an event (new hoses, pads, bleed, fittings, etc) they still were inconsistent.

I do hate dealing with dot fluid, but that's a once a year thing for us, Neither of our sets have needed a bleed yet, but I'll do it in the off season just as maintenance.

Gary · Oct 18, 2016

No problems (as yet) with mine but I haven't had them anywhere near long enough to comment on reliability.
At 200lb I'm not exactly light and with stock pads power is moar than adequate. modulation very good and so far they feel more consistant than my shimanos over similar long/steep descents. I prefer the lever feel to all my shimano's too.
I think pretty much ALL mtb rotors are under built. infact. I haven't ever come across any manufacturers rotor that doesn't eventually warp. but the warp is generally not down to the cutouts on the braking surface anyway. centreline braking surface patern does look a little minimal but the (200mm) arms and bolt mounting portion actually look to have more material to them than some. Anyway like everything. will just have to wait n see how they hold up.
this weekend was a full day of proper mud/hub deep puddles riding and they performed flawlessly so the claim that the rotor design is better at clearing mud could actually be true. kinda hard to isolate exactly why any brake works well in the worst conditions though it's glaringly obvious why some don't.
very happy with them so far.
Would bang again (even while sober)

kickstand · Oct 18, 2016

To comment on length of ownership.....2 seasons on the wife's brakes, 1 season on mine. I had 2 miserable seasons on the Zees.

Happymtb.fr · Oct 18, 2016

I am about to pull the trigger on 2016 Guide RS for my new bike and had just missed the S4 caliper upgrade.
Do you think it is worth it? The S4 brakes cost 40€ more than the older model.

schwaaa31 · Oct 18, 2016

freeriding said:
mainly sticky lever

http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/sram-guide-r-brake-brake-lever-failure-1018149.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/guide-rs-levers-not-returning-replaced-under-warranty-1011229.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/sram-guide-rsc-lever-sticky-slow-return-989324.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/sram-guide-rsc-problem-971220.html
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13043474

and many more!

I have the sticky lever situation with my front RSC. Only when it's hot as balls outside. The rear has been flawless. My LBS said they would send it SRAM for a warranty, but I haven't had time to take off long enough to stop riding. Maybe over the winter. It's annoying, but the brake still works fine.

Udi · Oct 18, 2016

Gary said:
I haven't ever come across any manufacturers rotor that doesn't eventually warp. but the warp is generally not down to the cutouts on the braking surface anyway.

Could the warp you experience be a function of time, like say, a time-warp?

At the current rate of Gary upgrades we'll have you on wide bars in no time.

Gary · Oct 18, 2016

Ha ha...

Been on nothing but 420s and 780s for the past 3 weeks

ZHendo · Oct 18, 2016

In my recent experience, Shimano's brakes have become laughably unreliable. I ditched 2 pairs of SLXs after both had recurring issues with random pad contamination from just sitting in the storage room...replacing perfectly good pads was getting old. Recently I had a local shop owner who has always sworn by Shimano lamenting their quality as of late, citing similar issues to what I had experienced, and 2 other buddies are throwing in the towel on their XT brakes due to inconsistency.

SRAM, however, continues to impress with the Guides. I don't own them, but they feel excellent and a couple of my riding buddies have had nothing but good experiences. Plus, SRAM warranty is great.

6thElement · Oct 18, 2016

I've had my Guide's for a couple of years, with no issues. But change to use the sintered pads, the organics they come with don't last. No issues with the year old set my wife has.

Only used on trail bikes though not our DH rigs. They definitely see plenty of descending use though.

Sandwich · Oct 18, 2016

Get Maguras!

Nah just kidding.

Wuffles · Oct 18, 2016

My one pair of Zees were decently powerful, but never had any reliable modulation and the bite point was super inconsistent. Bolted them to a bike I was selling and made them someone else's problem. Not sure I'll be buying shimano brakes again, they seem to be kinda shit lately. Frankly, I think the only reason anyone thought they were good was because most people can't afford Hope or Formula, and Avid was your only other comparison.

Guides all the way.

StiHacka · Oct 18, 2016

Sandwich said:
Get Maguras!

Nah just kidding.

I like my Maguras ....

with Saint levers.

^ on trail bike. For DH, I fail to see how Zees / Saints lack modulation for heavy DH duties.

Nick · Oct 18, 2016

I use Saint 820s on my DH and trail bikes. Perhaps I have two lucky "good" sets, but whatever, they're dialed and aren't going anywhere. More than enough power, and IMO the better modulation of any of the Shimano brakes.

I wouldn't use any of the Avid brakes based on my past experiences.

marshalolson · Oct 18, 2016

Nick said:
I wouldn't use any of the Avid brakes based on my past experiences.

It's cool, they say Sram on the lever now

Nick · Oct 18, 2016

in that case, never mind

mykel · Oct 18, 2016

XO Trail on the Trail Bike w Avid G4 rotors
Hope Tech3V4 on the Big Bike w Magura Venti rotors

Both have gobs of stopping power and modulation to die for.

Hope wins hands down for adjuster and lever feel, as well as very easy bleeds.
Avid - the adjusters are a bit meh at best, and the bleeds, well - lets just not talk about that.

Happymtb.fr · Oct 19, 2016

Maybe no real help here but I would get the Saint over the Zee since Saint have sintered pads.
Hope at 270€ for a pair sounds really cheap... almost to good to be true, so go for it.

I have been a long time Shimano customer for brakes. I have Saint on my trail bike, Zee on my DH, Slx on my hardtail and some other on previous bikes. For my next build I went for Guide RS since they seem more reliable than Shimano and are less pricey than Hope or Formula. I chose the RS over the RSC since the extra feature on the later is likely to turn into trouble and also for the price.

Gary · Oct 19, 2016

Happymtb.fr said:
choose the RS over the RSC since the extra feature on the later is moar likely to turn into trouble and also for the price.

This ^^

Electric_City · Oct 19, 2016

Hope's all the way. 1 bleed when new and I cut the lines. Super easy, no special tools or bleed kit necessary. Power is unbelievable. Reliability is thru the ROOF!
Expensive and run only the softer pads. The sintered are squealy.

Happymtb.fr · Oct 19, 2016

Thanks @Gary for improving my English!

Gary · Oct 19, 2016

@Happymtb.fr I'm fine with your English. I was changing what you said into an ORDER rather than a recommendation

My Swedish is non existent other than that horrible word you have. What is it again? Oh yeah

"IKEA"

Happymtb.fr · Oct 19, 2016

@Gary Ikea is not a word it's a brand.

what you said is like saying I can speak japanese because I know shimano

Don't you use smorgasbord in English?
Anyhow french is my mother tongue and I am not sure if you will like it... :busted:

Udi · Oct 19, 2016

Happymtb.fr said:
and are less pricey than Hope or Formula.

In mine and my friends' experiences, you get what you pay for with these two brands, especially their latest high-end offerings. Better quality, more consistent, and more reliable brakes - particular under heavy use (eg. bikepark season).

I think the cheaper brands are okay as long as you treat them as disposable and replace them if you get a bad one, or when (not if) they start causing problems - rather than trying to fix with bleeding (which rarely works, since the problems begin when the internals develop permanent problems).

Happymtb.fr · Oct 19, 2016

thanks for your feedback @Udi ! I would have liked Hope or Formula but my budget is tight and I had to make some compromises...

How is the ergonomy on Formula? I like to have my Shimano brake levers around 2 cm from the grips and the shifter directly against the brake on the stem side of it and rotated so that it is touching the lever. This way the shifter is at a good thumb length from my hand and I can brake with my index finger.
The formula lever seems quite bulky and I wonder how it does interfere, or not, with the positioning of the shifter.

kidwoo · Oct 19, 2016

What formulas are you guys using?

What's on their website isn't exactly representative of what you can buy right now.

Happymtb.fr · Oct 19, 2016

@kidwoo it all about the dowhill brake developped by the pros or its earlier incarnations
http://www.rideformula.com/products/mtb-brakes/ror/

Happymtb.fr · Oct 19, 2016

As a side track, did somebody here try the TRP brakes?

kidwoo · Oct 19, 2016

Happymtb.fr said:
As a side track, did somebody here try the TRP brakes?

Patiently waiting for the downhill brake developed by the pro..........

But on that note, it also looks like I'm going to wait until that cura brake from formula actually shows up. Hooray for cheap Asian sourced casting and mineral oil! It is after all what I'm used to.

This is the only place I can find them. Anybody ever order from these guys? Think I can pay in signed Hasselhoff pics?

https://www.bike-components.de/en/Formula/Cura-Disc-Brake-Set-2017-Model-p51801/

Nick · Oct 19, 2016

kidwoo said:
cura brake from formula

those look nice.
also, split perch FTW.

zee vs guide rsc

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

my pronouns are hag/gis

my pronouns are hag/gis

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

my pronouns are hag/gis

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

RM Chief Ornithologist

my pronouns are hag/gis

Turbo Monkey

Schrodinger's Immigrant

Pig my fish!

Monkey

Monkey

Compensating for something

My name is Nick

Turbo Monkey

My name is Nick

closer to Periwinkle

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

my pronouns are hag/gis

Torture wrench

Turbo Monkey

my pronouns are hag/gis

Turbo Monkey

RM Chief Ornithologist

Turbo Monkey

Artisanal Tweet Curator

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Artisanal Tweet Curator

My name is Nick

Monkey