MP3 player reccomendation?

the wop · Jun 23, 2004

of all the mp3s , ipod is still the best. loads of storage,& best management of files

Motionboy2 · Jun 23, 2004

Ipod, because you can store pictures on it too when you go to an event.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=T7418LL/A

The Kadvang · Jun 23, 2004

Hmmm, I want one too. Bump.

DRB · Jun 23, 2004

I have not had a single problem with my IPOD.

syadasti · Jun 23, 2004

The Rio Karma is the best digital audio player you can buy.

iRiver makes somes good units also.

The Apple iPod and the Creative units (Zen, Zen Touch, Dell DJ, etc...) are about average and most popular.

You can either go for a product for the masses that don't know any better or you can look around and find exactly what you need...

If you need a ridemonkey like site to research from, check out:

http://www.dapreview.com

syadasti · Jun 23, 2004

Here is what the owner of DAPreview.com has to say

My favorite DAPs

I've owned or tested these, and here's how they rank, all things considered:

=Full size players=
1. Rio Karma
2. Creative Nomad Jukebox 3
3. Dell DJ
4. Creative Zen Xtra
5. Apple iPod v.3
6. Apple iPod v.2
7. Gateway DMP-X20
8. iRiver iHP-100/120/140
9. Xclef HD-800
10. Philips HDD100
11. edigital O1000/MPIO HD100
12. Creative Nomad Zen (original) & Xclef HD-500

I put some thought into this but some of the criteria is subjective or personal preference so I wouldn't expect everyone to agree. All the players from #5 down have some serious flaw(s), IMO... but in most cases the fault could be addressed through firmware, if they'd only DO it...

Got tired of waiting on Dell and bought the Karma today (Best Buy w/ warantee). $100 premium over an internet purchase, but I guess the peace of mind is worth it. I would have had it much earilier except for the nasty incident with the "Stereo Seperation" (aka Super Sucky) setting on the Karma I originally tested.

With that out of the way, the Karma takes the #1 spot when weighted towards the things I consider most important.

By the way, Rio is the #2 best-selling Brand of mp3 player behind Apple as of March figures.

[edit 05/26: i switched iPod v.3 over the v.2 now after recently using one with updated firmware. touch-activated buttons did not feel overly sensitive anymore, along with a simple but effective on-the-go playlist, Apple lossless codec, and wake-to-alarm features now put it ahead of the previous model)

the reason the iPod ranks below the DJ is due to 1) It's not possible to completely shut it down to save battery life 2) Poor battery life 3) text too long for the screen doesn't scroll when selected 4) unable to delete content from player's GUI 5) lists do not loop A-Z/Z-A 6) could use more dedicated buttons 7) poor value compared to others, retail should be 10% less 8. easily scratched chassis 9) needs a 5-band User EQ, etc.... etc...

well the iPod still scrores higher that others because it's easy to use, Mass Storage device support, very durable, good resale, classy design, hundreds (200+) 3rd party products, iTunes interface, iTunes music store, Scroll wheel, Lossless codec support, blah blah .. it doesn't really matter because you can't turn the stupid thing off. You have to constanly think about plugging it in or else you'll come back in a few days and the powers run down.... FoCK

when you turn ipod "off" it just goes into sleep mode that slowly eats away the remaining battery power. it has a wimpy battery in the first place so after a few days of non-use, its dead. no way to beat it. no option to really shut it down completely and retain power, like other players. dumb. the reason for this scheme is the "instant on" you get, because it's only in sleep mode. all so you can avoid a 5 second bootup.

Regarding the iHP rating:

A) about 40% of the people I've polled on other forums prefer the file/folder view that the iHP offers, as opposed to the iD3-tag database organization used by iPod, Karma, DJ and most others. there are drawbacks to the file/folder configuration but some people prefer it, it lets them micromanage the contents of the drive, it's an easier transition for those who are used to music in a folder heirarchy on their PC, or for people who just don't want to mess with tagging thier tracks. I also suspect some of them don't understand the advantages of letting the player organize the music for you, but it comes down to personal preference.
b) also, it has features that most other players don't, like line-in recording, FM radio, and a powerful remote that can control all functions of the player.

Personally I have no use for ther features listed in B. You can make higher quality MP3's on your PC with EAC/LAME. FM radio? I don't need it considering the thousands of tracks allready loaded. And the remote, while very nice, is just more stuff to carry around that I'm not going to use.

About what I described in part A, I have over 2500 albums and they are all tagged accurately so its much more effecient to let the player manage where they are stored on the hard drive while I just pick from a list of items I want (Artist, Album, Track, etc).

2) I don't have any data about the percentage of failures and whether it's actually higher than competing brands. I havn't seen anything in the press about it. I have however, seen various issues about the iPod in the press from time to time.

oh I forgot, the one thing that really turns me off about the iHP series is the user interface. The joystick controller is really awful - hard to grip so you have to kind of push it from the side, its stiff, MAKES LOUD CLICK, its not speed-sensitive, and they lump too many functions into it. Since its the only volume controller, you can't adjust the volume while navigating file/folders or menus.

the file/folder view is irritating because they have a big FILE icon that eats up a full 20% of the screen space, leaving only 14 characters visible per line. And since it plays tracks in alphabetical order you have to name tracks like "03_Track Name.mp3" to get them to play in the same order as the CD (a must for DJ sets, live concerts, etc) .. which leaves visible only the first 11 characters of a track. not enough. Also, the play buttons on the side (play/pause, stop) don't acutally control play while navigating for some reason, they duplicate navigation functions for going up and down directories... just like the joystick.

The iHP does have an iD3 tag database function, but its useless to me because of a software limitation where it won't read any filenames longer than 52 characters into its dB.

No playlisting. No search function (in file/folder view). EQ is only bass/treble control.

so while it has some advanced features, they totally missed some of the basic ones that people actually use. and so far the only thing they've done with the firmware is make it support song lyrics. yay.

Even though the journal file system is the best option for a DAP, Rio listens to their customers and will offer a optional FAT firmware pretty soon that will enable you to use as a USB mass storage device (i.e. it will work like a HDD so you can store whatever you want and just use the built in OS drivers)...

The Creative Zen Touch is a brand new player which is priced very well and has not yet been reviewed. It looks like a good bargain:

http://gear.ign.com/objects/687/687682.html

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00028DJTY/ref=pd_pym_ka//103-2847787-0732654?v=glance

mobius · Jun 23, 2004

ipod is #1 sold mp3 player for a reason

narlus · Jun 23, 2004

yeah, marketing.

syadasti · Jun 23, 2004

mobius said:
ipod is #1 sold mp3 player for a reason

Yes marketing - same reason McDonalds, Walmart, Ford, Budweiser, Pacific/Huffys' are #1 in various markets...

If you'll settle for average/most popular item you are not very discriminating, you are probably overweight, lazy, watch too much tv, etc, etc...

I suppose you like quality marketing machine created pop music staples like the new kids on the block, backstreet boys, britney spears :blah:

MtnBikerNJ · Jun 23, 2004

here we go again. don't ask these guys what to buy. go try some for yourself and decide that way. odds are, just because you can't play windows DRM files on an ipod means that you should just buy the file from itms, since its makes it super easy to transfer. and as far as I know, most of the music stores have all the same sh!t anyway, since its all about the liscensing from the labels anyway.

i like my ipod. syadasti fondles and sleeps with his rio, and since some online forum liked it best, he thinks that's the case. whatever. the only right decision is the one you are comfortable with...

Toshi · Jun 23, 2004

microsoft's drm is much more draconian in its terms than apple's. read up and then see if you care. apple is the "good guy" as far as companies who get the grudging nod from the riaa... and the itunes music store is pretty sweet :thumb:

syadasti · Jun 23, 2004

MtnBikerNJ said:
i like my ipod. syadasti fondles and sleeps with his rio, and since some online forum liked it best, he thinks that's the case. whatever. the only right decision is the one you are comfortable with...

Actually I bought my Rio Karma in November of 2003. It was the 5th DAP I owned and the second HDD based player. The three before were CD based.

Derek made the right choice :thumb:

Derek - make sure you buy one of those walk-in extended warranty plans (I think they are $40) - you can basically drop the player/your fault I've heard and walk in and return it for credit for another - I think BB's is slight better though (CC mails you a gift certificate or something like that?). You could always return it and buy it at Best Buy if you think CC's warranty plan is a pain in the ass. I think MACK might even sell DAP warranty plans, but theirs really suck - you have to mail the item to NJ for claims processing. Also if you place the charge on your credit card - some have policies that double you warranty. Don't forget to buy those PDA screen protectors - they are great for digital cameras or any other piece of electronics like an MP3 player with a large LCD that could get scratched.

The Rio Karma fits in your hand better than the iPod anyways - Jackson who knows people with iPod and who had never seen or even knew what player I had said that when he picked it up last Thursday. It also weighs 20% less than an iPod.

syadasti · Jun 23, 2004

CC's 2-year policy is $55 for the Rio:

Why should you have to wait for off-site repairs? With the CityadvantageSM Protection Plan, if your product goes on the blink, you will receive a gift card in the amount of the product's purchase price as your replacement. It's that simple!

BB's 2 year policy is $40
Here's a snapshot of the benefits you'll receive:
Parts and labor coverage
No deductibles, no hidden charges and no out-of-pocket costs
No lemon policy
Normal wear and tear coverage
Power surge protection
Preventive maintenance on select items

MtnBikerNJ · Jun 24, 2004

and a sure bet that you just bought the best mediocre player out there

syadasti · Jun 24, 2004

MtnBikerNJ said:
and a sure bet that you just bought the best mediocre player out there

No, that would be an iPod, now go have some McDonalds breakfast while listening to your iPod. With lunch you can wash it down with some Pepsi. Afterwork you can pick up a few quality items at Walmart and then hit the bar and drink your quality Budweiser beer - afterall they are all best selling products, they must be the best :blah:

syadasti · Jun 24, 2004

Derek, you can visit http://www.riovolution.com for the latest info on the Rio Karma. They have a forum were people talk about encoding software, new products, firmware updates, etc.. You can even ask questions and get them answer directly by Rio employees. You can also find out about when and what features they'll add to the next firmware revisions and info on products like the Karma 2 (color screen, longer batter life, SD slot)...

MtnBikerNJ · Jun 24, 2004

???

seems to me that I had the better beer, er, TEA at MBW... and where the HEl! did you get the idea that pepsi was the better selling soda? do some research (and I'm sure you will) and I'm sure you'll find that Coke outsells pepsi by a really wide margin...
also: Walmart doesn't MAKE the items it sells. it is just has a better business plan. Pretty funny though. you rag on Macs (higher prices) but you only shop at boutiques and don't spend the lower $ at places like walmart... yet you only buy the cheapest PC components and low-cost mp3 player? does anyone else see the irony in Josh's beliefs?

syadasti · Jun 24, 2004

MtnBikerNJ said:
???

seems to me that I had the better beer, er, TEA at MBW... and where the HEl! did you get the idea that pepsi was the better selling soda? do some research (and I'm sure you will) and I'm sure you'll find that Coke outsells pepsi by a really wide margin...

Actually I wasn't drinking Bud, I was drinking Tilburg's Dutch Brown Ale which was a different variety of beer than yours so there is no comparison:

I used Pepsi cause they teamed up with Apple recently and they are number 2 which is still a huge chunk of the market. The Apple/Pepsi campaign was a big flop BTW

also: Walmart doesn't MAKE the items it sells. it is just has a better business plan. Pretty funny though. you rag on Macs (higher prices) but you only shop at boutiques and don't spend the lower $ at places like walmart... yet you only buy the cheapest PC components and low-cost mp3 player? does anyone else see the irony in Josh's beliefs?

No actually I use discount mail order, sales, and other unnamed methods. The Rio Karma isn't the cheapest priced player. The Rio Karma is also sold with 100% legal pricing scheme, no illegal price control like Apple. Companies can sell the Rio for whatever they want, no artificial price limit.

There are a few bike manufacturers, who I won't name, that charge price premiums for products that aren't any better or are actually lower quality that the small, high-end builders. Their brand equity lets them do this - people don't know any better and will pay more even though there are plenty of smaller builders out there doing a much better job. Its smart business to price your product as high as the market will allow.

MtnBikerNJ · Jun 24, 2004

yea i know the thing with apple/pepsi flopped. has more to do with pepsi being nasty. and apple isn't illegally controlling the pricing. and they aren't the only company to control the distribution of their product. kinda like buying a SATURN car. you'll pay the same price at any saturn dealer. they CONTROL the price.. sound familiar? Burton Snowboards is another. and I'm sure there is alot more than that.

seriously josh. move out of your parents house and get a real idea of what things cost. regardless of who controls the price. you'll figure it out. you'll pay more for whats important to you.

i actually don't go to walmart all that often, and do the same thing as you (internet shopping). But if the point is that walmart is moving in on local retailers by underpricing them, then you are doing just as much harm by not shopping at the LBS by going to online retailers. the only reason the online retailers are able to do things to keep cost low is to buy on volume, which is something the walmart (as well as other large companies like it) has become exceedingly good at.

syadasti · Jun 24, 2004

MtnBikerNJ said:
yea i know the thing with apple/pepsi flopped. has more to do with pepsi being nasty. and apple isn't illegally controlling the pricing. and they aren't the only company to control the distribution of their product. kinda like buying a SATURN car. you'll pay the same price at any saturn dealer. they CONTROL the price.. sound familiar? Burton Snowboards is another. and I'm sure there is alot more than that.

Actually my dealer gave me about $1500 in free upgrades I wanted cause I was going to get it at another dealer...

seriously josh. move out of your parents house and get a real idea of what things cost. regardless of who controls the price. you'll figure it out. you'll pay more for whats important to you.

Listen jackass, I paid for my own education, my apartment at school and took several terms of economics, demographics, statistics, and decision analysis at leading ivy league school and graduated at the top 10% of my class in only 3 years. I was also valedictorian of one of the top science and technology high schools in the country in 1998. You can't even figure out how to operate a PC and it took you months to figure out you could change the air pressure in your Fox Forx. Now you are too stupid to come up with any convincing arguement and Derek already bought the Rio Karma cause it was a better player for his needs. Deal with it instead of acting like a child.

You would live at home if your house was directly on lakefront property, your parents weren't assholes, and it was a half a mile commute to work. Not to mention that was the norm in the past when people were responsible and there were significant less social problems.

P.S. I pay rent and all my expenses at home...

MtnBikerNJ · Jun 24, 2004

dude its still the norm for this geographic region. sounds like I hit a touchy subject for you. sorry about that. lighten up josh... yea i'd probably live there too. but i paid for my education too (not my parents). and I graduated near the top of my class (in a different field, obviously) from a school equally prestigious in my field. I'm not saying I'm a computer science major, but yes I can work on PC's, I just CHOOSE not to. And I'd like to see you even PRETEND to do something like Anthony or I do. And if you try to give me your Ivy League High and Mighty holier-than-though BS again....

Motionboy2 · Jun 24, 2004

derekpearson said:
thanks for the info.. The thing that scares me about the ipod is this

iPod Compatibility:
I noticed the iPod is not a device supported by the Windows Media DRM. Why is this and how can I get my music onto my iPod?
Answer:
Currently the iPod only supports secure content from Apple (Quicktime DRM), specifically the iTunes store. Other secure/legal formats are not supported by the iPod. It has been a decision by Apple to keep the iPod proprietary and to only support legal/secure content from the Apple iTunes store. The iPod will not support content purchased from any other on-line music store.

If your iPod is connected to a Macintosh computer, the disc will work like a normal CD. If the iPod is connected to a PC, the music can not be easily copied to the device.

I cant copy music from any cd that is bmg because its not compatible.....

That isn't right. I have Windows, and all I have to do is drop things into Itunes and it converts it and puts it on my Ipod. I have mp3s, music from CD's I purchased, music from downloads. I have yet to run into anything that I can't put on there. you just have to use Itunes to convert everything.

Toshi · Jun 24, 2004

haha, this is great.

point 1) high school is worthless
point 2) i didn't know you went to an ivy. where did you go, josh?
point 3) huge chip on shoulder == not cool. didn't they teach you THAT at school? i know they did at mine :rolleyes:

syadasti · Jun 24, 2004

Toshi said:
haha, this is great.

point 1) high school is worthless

When I was at High Technology High School had the top SAT scores in NJ. NJ ranks 5th highest in the world for math/science education when you don't include the rest of the US.

point 2) i didn't know you went to an ivy. where did you go, josh?

Cornell University

point 3) huge chip on shoulder == not cool. didn't they teach you THAT at school? i know they did at mine

Total bullsh*t chubby - you condescend far more often than me and I've heard it from other monkeys I've met in person without prompting :thumb:

MtnBikerNJ · Jun 24, 2004

dude... if you aren't condescending at times I don't know who is...

narlus · Jun 24, 2004

wow, car wreck central.

ain't mp3 players great?

MtnBikerNJ · Jun 24, 2004

hahahaha

yea sometimes the debates turn ugly... so who's viting for Bush?

syadasti · Jun 24, 2004

MtnBikerNJ said:
hahahaha

yea sometimes the debates turn ugly... so who's viting for Bush?

9-11 comes out tomorrow on my birthday, I think I might see it with Beth. Never seen any of Moore's movies though...

I think I'll go for the lesser of two evils this Fall and vote one of the worst modern administrations out of office :help:

Toshi · Jun 24, 2004

syadasti said:
Total bullsh*t chubby - you condescend far more often than me and I've heard it from other monkeys I've met in person without prompting

hmm. i am a smartass, yes, but you go around waving the "i'm smarter than thou" stick quite often. see your recent "i am the it director for a multi-BILLION dolar corporation" post, for example.

maybe you were referring to my posts about apple wrt style. it's true, tho; people who don't get apple simply have no style

:

MtnBikerNJ · Jun 24, 2004

no way dude i'm voting for BUSH. he ROCKS... just kidding. I can't even pretend on that court.

seriously though, check out bowling for columbine too. makes you think alot. oh, and happy birthday BTW.

syadasti · Jun 24, 2004

Toshi said:
hmm. i am a smartass, yes, but you go around waving the "i'm smarter than thou" stick quite often. see your recent "i am the it director for a multi-BILLION dolar corporation" post, for example.

Ah then why is it most people know where you went to school, but I did not bring it up until Craig's comments (which he has brought before when he has run out of valid arguments) and after you asked...

And being that the argument was related to IT its totally revelant to let someone know your experience. For all anyone knows, you could just be a random computer user with limit or no IT experience - they might not have even used more than one or two platforms therefore might (or highly likely) are just talking out of their ass.

I did not to even mention what my company does (M&A), but I'll let you know now...

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In addition to our broad scope and experience, we have identified and closely track key, yet evolving, sectors of the technology industry. These include: IT Services, Storage Software and Services, Security, and Network and Systems Management. The * team has a comprehensive understanding of these technologies and applies this knowledge to provide useful research and advice to our clients.

The other half of the company, VC:

Investment Strategy

Sector Focus

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Information Services
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Business Services and Outsourcing
IT Services

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Investment Size

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narlus · Jun 24, 2004

josh, instead of constantly editing yr posts, deletion might be a better option sometimes.

back on track, the karma's been really cool for long plane rides and vacations. two of the places we've stayed had a small stereo, so i brought the docking station and power cord, a set of RCA patch cords, and had 20GB of personal tunes to play during the week. neato.

Toshi · Jun 24, 2004

syadasti said:
Ah then why is it most people know where you went to school, but I did not bring it up until Craig's comments (which he has brought before when he has run out of valid arguments) and after you asked...

this one's actually quite simple:

a) i was still in school when i joined RM
b) there have been numerous "what college did you/do you go to threads?
c) i have my longstanding thread in the northeast forum, where most of the participants were/are also harvard kids
d) the name "harvard" has a special quality of being easily remembered since it's in the news quite often

syadasti · Jun 24, 2004

Yeah that does make sense, I edit out of habit though. Some forums don't let you delete your posts, only edit them. A new post definately is easier for everyone to see...

The Rio Karma definately works well in a lot of situations. You could even set it up on a network and use its built in webserver component, "riostreamer", to create your own non-PC based Intra/Internet radiostation that only plays the music you want to hear...

syadasti · Jun 24, 2004

derekpearson said:
thanks Josh, Ill check that out. Im still really pleased with this thing, took it riding today and had it in the same pocket as my keys, so I guess I wont be taking it back even if I decide I dont like it aha. Shoulda picked up one of those screen protector things you mentioned before I went out. Ah well I didnt buy it for looks anyway

I just noticed this today about the warranties and some of your options (valid with any brand of mp3player):

http://www.riovolution.com/FAQkarma.php#gen3

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