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djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,109
1,799
Northern California
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/scott-launches-new-170mm-travel-ransom-enduro-bike.html

Interesting looking bike.

But at first glance, that twinlock crap...well sounds like crap. And no drainage hole at the lower shock mount? Looks like a nice cup for water and mud to sit in.

Scott and their proprietary shocks. Doesn't look like you could even get rid of it for a piggy back shock if you wanted to - trunion metric mount so you couldn't flip it around and no room for the reservoir in stock config.
 

zdubyadubya

Turbo Monkey
Apr 13, 2008
1,273
96
Ellicott City, MD
Scott and their proprietary shocks. Doesn't look like you could even get rid of it for a piggy back shock if you wanted to - trunion metric mount so you couldn't flip it around and no room for the reservoir in stock config.
if you read the press release, pinkbike, or the website, the frame can accommodate piggyback shocks. "if thats your fancy" as they put it.
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,464
4,194
sw ontario canada

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,838
4,881
Champery, Switzerland
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/scott-launches-new-170mm-travel-ransom-enduro-bike.html

Interesting looking bike.

But at first glance, that twinlock crap...well sounds like crap. And no drainage hole at the lower shock mount? Looks like a nice cup for water and mud to sit in.

There's a drain hole on the other side of the frame and one on the underside of the bb. The width of the seat tube protects the bathtub from collecting too much stuff coming off the back wheel.

If you have to climb a 170mm travel bike with DH tires up anything steep or long the Twinloc is pretty sweet. Since I mainly ride DH and don't have the climbing fitness of a lot of my friends the Twinloc has grown on me. The traction mode is sweet for popping jumps, smashing berms or manuals. It reduces travel and sag while increasing compression and air chamber progression as well as slowing down rebound. It's not just a compression choke down. These new ones are much better than everything before them.

2.6 kg frame and shock that passes the FR tests is pretty impressive though.

On another note these are sick too. Ruben, the guy behind the project is fast AF.

https://www.raawmtb.com/madonna

IMG_3266.jpg
 
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norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,503
1,719
Warsaw :/
There's a drain hole on the other side of the frame and one on the underside of the bb. The width of the seat tube protects the bathtub from collecting too much stuff coming off the back wheel.

If you have to climb a 170mm travel bike with DH tires up anything steep or long the Twinloc is pretty sweet. Since I mainly ride DH and don't have the climbing fitness of a lot of my friends the Twinloc has grown on me. The traction mode is sweet for popping jumps, smashing berms or manuals. It reduces travel and sag while increasing compression and air chamber progression as well as slowing down rebound. It's not just a compression choke down. These new ones are much better than everything before them.

2.6 kg frame and shock that passes the FR tests is pretty impressive though.

On another note these are sick too. Ruben, the guy behind the project is fast AF.

https://www.raawmtb.com/madonna

View attachment 130219
This bike makes so much sense. It's nice to see people going function follows form in their design not the other way around.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,819
5,195
Australia
Scott and their proprietary shocks. Doesn't look like you could even get rid of it for a piggy back shock if you wanted to - trunion metric mount so you couldn't flip it around and no room for the reservoir in stock config.
I'd like to try one hey. Personally I hate bar clutter, so would prefer if the Twin-Loc function was just a lever on the shock, rather than a remote set-up. Glad the seat angle is pushed forward, although I'm firmly in the camp that thinks I've not yet ridden a trail/enduro bike where the SA was too steep yet. The weight looks amazing/almost concerning.

That handlestembar though... you'd hope that you liked the bar position. Also might be awkward for people that have to fit it all in a bike bag as well.

Edit - just looking again now. The trunnion is upside down, but I can't tell if there are any bearings in the lower frame mount or does it just pivot/oscillate on the bolts? @buckoW ?
 
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djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,109
1,799
Northern California
I'd like to try one hey. Personally I hate bar clutter, so would prefer if the Twin-Loc function was just a lever on the shock, rather than a remote set-up. Glad the seat angle is pushed forward, although I'm firmly in the camp that thinks I've not yet ridden a trail/enduro bike where the SA was too steep yet. The weight looks amazing/almost concerning.

That handlestembar though... you'd hope that you liked the bar position. Also might be awkward for people that have to fit it all in a bike bag as well.

Edit - just looking again now. The trunnion is upside down, but I can't tell if there are any bearings in the lower frame mount or does it just pivot/oscillate on the bolts? @buckoW ?
I just hate being locked into a proprietary shock. However if it's a standard size and can accommodate a piggy back I have not complaints.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,819
5,195
Australia
I just hate being locked into a proprietary shock. However if it's a standard size and can accommodate a piggy back I have not complaints.
Yeah all the write ups say you can chuck another shock in there if you want a piggyback or coil. Interestingly, that enduro-mtb site seems less glowing than other reviews. Always worth seeing what they have to say over there.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,589
2,019
Seattle
I'm firmly in the camp that thinks I've not yet ridden a trail/enduro bike where the SA was too steep yet.
This. It's insane that ST angles aren't steeper in general. There are bikes out there that I'm happy with, but I've never, ever heard anyone think that theirs was too steep. I'm sure that there's a point where we'd get there, but the fact that literally nothing on the market makes me wonder if we've found it is dumb as hell.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,838
4,881
Champery, Switzerland
This. It's insane that ST angles aren't steeper in general. There are bikes out there that I'm happy with, but I've never, ever heard anyone think that theirs was too steep. I'm sure that there's a point where we'd get there, but the fact that literally nothing on the market makes me wonder if we've found it is dumb as hell.
That Raaw bike has a 74* actual and 78.2* effective. That's the steepest one I've tried. I wouldn't want my seat any further forward for the downs because it gets in my way when cornering. It's nice for climbing though.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,589
2,019
Seattle
That Raaw bike has a 74* actual and 78.2* effective. That's the steepest one I've tried. I wouldn't want my seat any further forward for the downs because it gets in my way when cornering. It's nice for climbing though.
Makes sense. I haven't ridden anything quite that steep, though my Nicolai is close-ish.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,819
5,195
Australia
That Raaw bike has a 74* actual and 78.2* effective. That's the steepest one I've tried. I wouldn't want my seat any further forward for the downs because it gets in my way when cornering. It's nice for climbing though.
Yeah thats well forward of what anyone else is offering right now except a couple of small, boutique (and thus expensive) manufacturers.

Climbing already sucks, it doesn't have to be made worse by bikes that require you to sit on the nose of the saddle for a whole climb to stop the front end picking up or wandering everywhere.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,638
6,996
This. It's insane that ST angles aren't steeper in general. There are bikes out there that I'm happy with, but I've never, ever heard anyone think that theirs was too steep. I'm sure that there's a point where we'd get there, but the fact that literally nothing on the market makes me wonder if we've found it is dumb as hell.
Mine is too steep, 76deg 6ft tall and a size 13 shoe puts me in a somewhat annoying pedalling position. I find myself re adjusting my foot position for the tech sections if I have come from a boring bit of XC or road.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,135
1,364
Styria
From a bio mechanical pov there is definitely a too steep ST. Gluteus max can deliver max power at a 20-30° pre-stretch or overstretch from his resting length. If you go too steep you lose power.
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,464
4,194
sw ontario canada
Getting back to the Kings of BB real-estate.

I'm thinking the new Knolly Fugitive for next year.
It is <gasp> a 29er; but hey I'm 6'2", so I should fit.

Probably frame up build as I like coil front and rear, as well other bits that are not usually standard in built models.
Available in both 120 and 135mm. Same frame, different shock stroke.

Where I live there are no fire or logging roads, so I'm not worried about pedal efficiency when going up.
I like an active bike due mostly to where I ride. Most of where we ride, is in, around, up, down and along ravines, eskers and other ice-age bits and bobs. So no sustained climbing, but a series of short punchy climbs on anything from smooth to very rooty with a goodly number of rocks thrown in. Descents are the same, not North Shore janky, but some can be in the same vein. Quite a bit of newer trail as well that has a lot more flow to it, but it is still up and down in rolling retain.

To give you an idea, on quite a few trail systems, my dropper post only gets dropped when stopped and chatting trail-side as you can not keep up with the bar work required for shifting, braking and a dropper post when riding.

Also, still have 3 built 26" Knollys in the stable, so know quite well how they ride.
My big bike is a Podium - although it has a 27.5 front wheel.
Trailbike is an Endorphin
Also have a Delirium - That was my "One" do-it all bike, now mostly ridden by my son.

I'm thinking the 120mm as the Endorphin26 is 140 and that is enough for the area.

The 157 trail does not bother me as I can use an old 157 hub, not too worried about the slight difference in flange spacing.

I do need to put together a list of short-travel aggressive 29ers, cause ya never know 'till ya look.
What should I put on my list? ( I would like coil capable, but not set in stone.)


Numbers



Cheers!
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,109
1,799
Northern California
I do need to put together a list of short-travel aggressive 29ers, cause ya never know 'till ya look.
What should I put on my list? ( I would like coil capable, but not set in stone.)

Cheers!
Here's a list of trail bikes with geometry numbers. The sizes selected are all for someone 5'10", so not applicable to your height, but the travel, chainstay, HA numbers will all be consistent. There's also a downtube calculated field which should show relative differences between models, as well as a number I find useful for determining where the COG on a bike will be and doesn't change much between sizes: chainstay/(wheelbase-reach-chainstay).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11jIbXx-Ax15dR7DTMyxQ7BtGtLEOQ8NkfVR1eUsjIJ8/edit?usp=sharing
 

Cerberus75

Monkey
Feb 18, 2017
520
194
My bike is 77° effective STA its great for climbing. But on my home trails that are a bit more peddly I use a set back post. When I travel where there's a lot more climbing I'll change it to a regular post.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,819
5,195
Australia
Mine is too steep, 76deg 6ft tall and a size 13 shoe puts me in a somewhat annoying pedalling position. I find myself re adjusting my foot position for the tech sections if I have come from a boring bit of XC or road.
What bike? Obviously due to variations in body geometry some people will prefer different seat angles. Rear travel and recommended sag will also wildly affect the seat angle and how it feels.
 

Cerberus75

Monkey
Feb 18, 2017
520
194
What bike? Obviously due to variations in body geometry some people will prefer different seat angles. Rear travel and recommended sag will also wildly affect the seat angle and how it feels.
Canfield Riot. With a 9 point 8 set back dropper its good, its around 75°. Home trails are more rolling. With its higher BB i feel to high and close to the bars with out it. When I travel to WNC where its its mostly climbing then stand on the way down, I like the 77°. So i switch to a regular zero offset.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,819
5,195
Australia
I do need to put together a list of short-travel aggressive 29ers, cause ya never know 'till ya look.
What should I put on my list?
Transition Smuggler
Commencal Meta Trail 29
YT Jeffsy 29
Guerilla Gravity Trail Pistol
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,638
6,996
What bike? Obviously due to variations in body geometry some people will prefer different seat angles. Rear travel and recommended sag will also wildly affect the seat angle and how it feels.
Custom hardtail so the STA is probably 77 at sag, I would say I would ride with my foot further back on the pedals than average as it helps keep 'em on the pedals in the rough bits. I won't go beyond a 75deg STA for my next bike, next bike will be a dually as I am too old and shit to still be riding hardtails.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,819
5,195
Australia
Custom hardtail so the STA is probably 77 at sag, I would say I would ride with my foot further back on the pedals than average as it helps keep 'em on the pedals in the rough bits. I won't go beyond a 75deg STA for my next bike, next bike will be a dually as I am too old and shit to still be riding hardtails.
Ah yeah a hardtail with 77 and no sag to drop it a bit would be crazy upright. On a 160mm dually that would be pretty good though.

*edit* wish they'd measure SA at a relevant height. Measuring at stack height is pretty useless.
 
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