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2005 Shimano Hone & LX

Hello Kitty

Hello Kitty

Monkey
Nov 25, 2004
432
0
Houston
is it just me or is the 2005 shimano Hone grouppo just the LX with back anno?





observe the hubs the disc brakes and the der. and the obvious cranks please discuss...
 
punkassean

punkassean

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2002
4,561
0
SC, CA
Ummm yeah...

Hone is an example of less expensive than Saint freeride oriented components.

It is not unlike Shimano to use similar looking parts that are in fact different. For instance the previous Deore/LX/XT cranks all looked the same but the chainrings were very different resulting in a dramatic weight difference. I believe the Deore arms were a different material as well. Same goes for hubs look at Deore and XT disc hubs and there really isn't a physically difference it's just the quality of the bearings and the weight that's different.

I'm sure that Hone and LX share brakes/shifters and some other parts exactly aside from color but I'm also sure that many parts are at least somewhat different mechanically if not esthetically. Besides Hone was always supposed to be an LX level group quality wise...
 
Hello Kitty

Hello Kitty

Monkey
Nov 25, 2004
432
0
Houston
dude i thought you knew me i'm XTR and Sram X.0 all the way i'm just wondering why they did the Hone and LX i know those hucker dudes are pretty dumb being stoned and drunk all the time but i think they and can tell the difference between the two.
 
B

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
punkassean said:
Ummm yeah...

Hone is an example of less expensive than Saint freeride oriented components.

It is not unlike Shimano to use similar looking parts that are in fact different. For instance the previous Deore/LX/XT cranks all looked the same but the chainrings were very different resulting in a dramatic weight difference. I believe the Deore arms were a different material as well. Same goes for hubs look at Deore and XT disc hubs and there really isn't a physically difference it's just the quality of the bearings and the weight that's different.

I'm sure that Hone and LX share brakes/shifters and some other parts exactly aside from color but I'm also sure that many parts are at least somewhat different mechanically if not esthetically. Besides Hone was always supposed to be an LX level group quality wise...
Click to expand...
Exactly. They share so many common parts, it makes no sense to create a new group unless you just want to make more money. Why couldn't they just add a bolt on rear hub/derailleur to the LX group? Because they're greedy bastards...
 
punkassean

punkassean

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2002
4,561
0
SC, CA
Some day grasshopper you will understand business (and ladies ;) ).

Let's just say there is a much better reason than greed for having more than one or two component groups that are not terribly different...
 
B

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
People are sheep, more interest in your products, "you need this or you aren't a good rider", etc etc...
 
punkassean

punkassean

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2002
4,561
0
SC, CA
The irony in this case is you are acting the sheep.

Here is the thought process...

Shimano guy #1: We need a more affordable freeride group than Saint, how can we achieve that?

Shimano guy #2: Well, what if we make a slightly heavier/less strong and less bling crankset and then we make some slightly less expensive to produce hubs and derailluers?

Shimano guy #1: Yeah, that's how we'll do it!

Shimano guy #2: Heck we could share some components with LX since the strength of a front derailluer or shifter is not near as important as a rear derailleur for instance.

Shimano guy #1: That's brilliant, why would we waste money on tooling for a Hone specific front derailluer when we already have an LX that will work beautifully!

Shimano guy #2: In fact that will let us sell Hone for even cheaper than we had hoped since it shares a platform with LX. Ultimately benefiting the customer!!!

Now do you get it???

Car makers have platform based cars to make things more efficient, efficiency and reduction of redundancy does not equate to greed.

Think for yourself, you are being a "F@CK THE SHIMANO EMPIRE" sheep and you don't even realize it...

BAAAH BAAAH
 
punkassean

punkassean

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2002
4,561
0
SC, CA
okay, I'm gonna FedEx some ExLax over to mormon land so you can crap your head out of your ass because it's obviously stuck waaay up there.

BAAAH BAAAH BAAAH
 
B

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
I just don't see the need for a whole new group when all you're adding is two or three new parts. More component groups doesn't=better, especially when it's almost the same as another group.

Shimano made XTR DH cranks once, they've done it before. What's wrong with making an LX bolt on hub, an LX bolt on rear d, and an lx dh crank?

I don't even think this hone crap is supposed to appeal to the fr/dh crowd...isn't it an attempt to lure in the "trailbikers" so they can look tougher with wannabe Saint crap? Blah blah...doesn't matter...It drives up costs needlessly. Which is bad. Bad bad bad Shimano.

I too have an uncle...come in salesman.
 
punkassean

punkassean

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2002
4,561
0
SC, CA
XTR DH cranks were only different from the XC cranks in the spider, that's it.

There is nothing wrong with making an LX bolt-on derailluer but there is a reason to brand something differently. Branding is the key to business. It doesn't cost you (the consumer) anything in the end to have a different finish on a component so why should you care if they have an LX group with two color options or a Hone and an LX group? That basically what you are saying anyway, that color options add needless cost.

If you can come up with one real reason how Hone "drives up cost needlessly" I'll forever hold my peace...
 
lonewolfe

lonewolfe

Monkey
Nov 14, 2002
408
0
Bay Area
Dude, are you retarded or what? Those two Shimano guys would have had that conversation in Japanese, not English! :evil:
 
B

BadFastard

Monkey
Jan 29, 2002
121
0
Belgium
Did anyone actually check the pricing of Hone?
here in Europe there is a 2€ difference between a Hone crank and a LX.
Hone disk brake is 5€ cheaper than LX...
So what are you all babbling about? It's a simple branding issue to target new markets?

the Shimano guys conversation was probably more like this one:
Akira says: Huckers simply don't like LX on their bike coz it won't match their image.
yuko says: So if we paint it black and rename it, they'll buy it you think?
Akira says: great thinking. This way we have a competitor for Race Face Evolve, and get customers whose bizzniz we would've missed otherwise.

get the point?
 
Incubus

Incubus

Monkey
Oct 17, 2001
562
0
Boston, MA
Ever consider the OE market? They rebrand some components so that they can sell complete kits to bike manufacturers. Rather than piece together groups.

Why doesn't anyone chastize specialized, giant, kona, etc. for offering the same frame with different trim levels in different colors? The frames are the same, just different colors. I don't see how is this different.
 
Echo

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,819
15
Slacking at work
It wouldn't surprise me if many of the parts are exactly the same. But the rear mech looks to be quite different.

It's probably easier to sell a whole groupset to OEM's, so they need to have groupsets for every pricepoint. But it really wouldn't make sense for them to have every groupset have its own complete set of different components, just for the sake of being different.
 
Skookum

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
LX/XT-sturdy affordable component group, people who ride aggressive technical trails have known this forever. Lotta newbs comin around who don't. Paint it black make it hardcore woo hoo! i wonder if they make hard core fishing poles nowadays too?
 
J

Jeff 151

Monkey
Sep 25, 2004
175
0
DeezBay, Cali
face it bluethunder, you got owned here. and hellokitty: string together a gramatically correct sentence before you knock freeriders for their smarts.

Hello Kitty said:
i know those hucker dudes are pretty dumb being stoned and drunk all the time but i think they and can tell the difference between the two.
Click to expand...
 
punkassean

punkassean

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2002
4,561
0
SC, CA
lonewolfe said:
Dude, are you retarded or what? Those two Shimano guys would have had that conversation in Japanese, not English! :evil:
Click to expand...
?????? !

EDIT: tried to post "My bad!" in Japanese but it didn't work...
 
snipes287

snipes287

Chimp
Apr 6, 2003
84
0
Seattle, WA
Hello Kitty said:
i know those hucker dudes are pretty dumb being stoned and drunk all the time
Click to expand...
talking like that will get your A$$ beat one of these days... :mumble:

We don't need people saying that kind of stuff on this form...that’s what pink bike is for. so if your going to keep it legit its great to have you, but if you going to say stuff like that go to pinkbike
 
B

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
punkassean said:
XTR DH cranks were only different from the XC cranks in the spider, that's it.

There is nothing wrong with making an LX bolt-on derailluer but there is a reason to brand something differently. Branding is the key to business. It doesn't cost you (the consumer) anything in the end to have a different finish on a component so why should you care if they have an LX group with two color options or a Hone and an LX group? That basically what you are saying anyway, that color options add needless cost.

If you can come up with one real reason how Hone "drives up cost needlessly" I'll forever hold my peace...
Click to expand...
It may not drive up actual costs, but it gives Shimano a good excuse to raise prices for everything anyways. "Blah blah blah...oh...well raw resources are mildly more expensive, but R&D and production for this awesome new group drove up costs!"

Shimano, like any large corporation is and should be, is in it for the money. The burden of proof that they won't jack up prices simply because they can lies with them, not me. I've already heard this load of crap from shop guys. I asked them why Shimano comps are going to cost more next year, and they say "Oh, the rep told us R&D, you know with new Hone and Ultegra 10..."


On a side note, I'd consider expecting SRAM to do the same thing in this sort of situation. However, the CEO of SRAM might ride, while I'm pretty sure the president of Shimano doesn't...
 
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