[General Lee]

Can anybody tell me why you all get so excited about the bike? Granted, it looks awesome! But they say it is the same weight as the old DHi with a carbon frame and with an air shock!!!! What, besides look and possible future improvements, is then the reason to go for carbon?

Why paint a bike blue when red will be just as good? because some people just like it better, that and it's a good way for GT to set themselves apart a bit in a market that arguably has too many options already

might have something to do with strength to weight between carbon an aluminum. in theory at least, the carbon frame of the same weight should be stronger . . . and make really cool noises when you shift gears.

 

[bdamschen]

and make really cool noises when you shift gears.

mmmmmm, I just thought about that part...

if pound for pound carbon is stronger, than I would imagine a carbon bike that weighs the same as alum would last longer, and you wouldn't need to worry about stuff like it being heat treated properly or crappy welds.

On top of that the bike looks sick. I want one.

 

[dsotm]

Can anybody tell me why you all get so excited about the bike? Granted, it looks awesome! But they say it is the same weight as the old DHi with a carbon frame and with an air shock!!!! What, besides look and possible future improvements, is then the reason to go for carbon?

Part of it is that finally there is a "mass produced" carbon fiber dh bike (now that is). It's a sign of a bigger company pushing technology and a change of psychology of the consumer. That's exciting.

 

[iRider]

. . . and make really cool noises when you shift gears.

I have to find myself one of those Tioga disc wheels. They were soooo ahead of their time! :biggrin:

 

[iRider]

Part of it is that finally there is a "mass produced" carbon fiber dh bike (now that is). It's a sign of a bigger company pushing technology and a change of psychology of the consumer. That's exciting.

I see a business oportunity here. There is no mass produced Ti DH bike....Can't wait for Litespeed to do build one :biggrin:

On a serious note, I think they should have pushed the gearbox bike instead of this. I sooooo wanted the IT-1....if they had changed the geometry!

 

[chriscarleton]

You and me both my man! :biggrin:

I ride my ibis mojo pretty fast down some hills...and it almost cuts the mustard.

For real though, people shouldn't hate on carbon. My mojo feels as stiff and strong (jesus christ...people get your minds out of the gutter) as any other bike I've ever ridden. Carbon rules! Sign me up for a carbon DW link DH bike!

 

[LukeD]

I ride my ibis mojo pretty fast down some hills...and it almost cuts the mustard.

For real though, people shouldn't hate on carbon. My mojo feels as stiff and strong (jesus christ...people get your minds out of the gutter) as any other bike I've ever ridden. Carbon rules! Sign me up for a carbon DW link DH bike!

same here. i think the bike looks pretty cool.. a carbon DW link DH bike would kick ass..

 

[offtheedge]

same here. i think the bike looks pretty cool.. a carbon DW link DH bike would kick ass..

It's called an Ibis Mojo, it has DW link suspension. Want no more.

 

[rb92078]

Can anybody tell me why you all get so excited about the bike? Granted, it looks awesome! But they say it is the same weight as the old DHi with a carbon frame and with an air shock!!!! What, besides look and possible future improvements, is then the reason to go for carbon?

Carbon is much stiffer, and stronger (in comparison to aluminum). Less flex isuues that plague a lot of link-less single pivots. The air shock is plain marketing (in my opinion). I think what GT is doing is great, companies need to start taking more risks, with risk comes failure, with failure comes improvement/evolution.

 

[dirtdigger]

I think what GT is doing is great, companies need to start taking more risks, with risk comes failure, with failure comes improvement/evolution.

if thats the case then GT would have the most improved/evolved bikes you can get????

 

[- seb]

I see a business oportunity here. There is no mass produced Ti DH bike....Can't wait for Litespeed to do build one :biggrin:

On a serious note, I think they should have pushed the gearbox bike instead of this. I sooooo wanted the IT-1....if they had changed the geometry!

Ti isn't a good choice for full-sus. We have suspension for traction/comfort, so the aim is to have a frame that is as stiff as possible. Ti flexes. Hence being a popular choice for hardtails - has a bit of give in it.

 

[ire]

I have to find myself one of those Tioga disc wheels. They were soooo ahead of their time! :biggrin:

My friend has one in his garage...

 

[rb92078]

if thats the case then GT would have the most improved/evolved bikes you can get????

What??? It takes more than one company to evolve technology. Its like taking a gnarly line, the one who ginnies the line isn't necassarily gonna be the fastest guy at the end of the day. I know carbon has been used before for DH applications, but I can bet you anything that the guys at GT had a good look at designs by BCD, or Lahar... Which definitely helped them take the leap as well.

 

[General Lee]

What??? It takes more than one company to evolve technology. Its like taking a gnarly line, the one who ginnies the line isn't necassarily gonna be the fastest guy at the end of the day. I know carbon has been used before for DH applications, but I can bet you anything that the guys at GT had a good look at designs by BCD, or Lahar... Which definitely helped them take the leap as well.

Somehow I would doubt it. nothing against BCD and Lahar, but there are more obvious and highly advanced (and more refined) applications of carbon fiber outside the bike industry; like, oh I don't know, maybe F1 for example.

If i was a betting man I'd say a big part of their decision to go full carbon is to call attention to their brand. After disappearing for a few years and re-entering a market with so many choices for DH bikes the standard aluminum I-Drive (now in its 8th year) is white noise.

 

[xy9ine]

Ti isn't a good choice for full-sus. We have suspension for traction/comfort, so the aim is to have a frame that is as stiff as possible. Ti flexes. Hence being a popular choice for hardtails - has a bit of give in it.

in proper diameters it can be stiff. not an implausible material choice - better longevity than aluminum, lighter than steel - but cost prohibitive i imagine. canfield was talking about doing a custom ti-front big bike a while back; i'm assuming that never materialized.

 

[iRider]

in proper diameters it can be stiff. not an implausible material choice - better longevity than aluminum, lighter than steel - but cost prohibitive i imagine. canfield was talking about doing a custom ti-front big bike a while back; i'm assuming that never materialized.

Titus sells the El Guapo in Ti. So it works.
To get people excited all it seems to take is a new material applied to an old bike design. Bamboo DH bike anyone?

BCD and Lahar bring new ideas in frame design/transmission AND carbon to the DH world. That is innovation I want to see!

 

[iRider]

My friend has one in his garage...

Karl?

 

[xy9ine]

BCD and Lahar bring new ideas in frame design/transmission AND carbon to the DH world. That is innovation I want to see!

carbon allows great freedom of form for gearbox packaging; makes alot of sense. of course the trick is to put something like that into (sustainable) production. gt has the resources & expertise in these areas; be cool to see it come together.

 

[rb92078]

Somehow I would doubt it. nothing against BCD and Lahar, but there are more obvious and highly advanced (and more refined) applications of carbon fiber outside the bike industry; like, oh I don't know, maybe F1 for example.

If i was a betting man I'd say a big part of their decision to go full carbon is to call attention to their brand. After disappearing for a few years and re-entering a market with so many choices for DH bikes the standard aluminum I-Drive (now in its 8th year) is white noise.

Well get your doubt on then... F1 has been using carbon for years.... but I can't remember the last time F1 had anything to do with DH in the slightest bit. But everyone has there own opinion I guess. Here's to GT calling attention to them selves Its not like GT has done anything for the bike industry anyways right... How naive of me to think GT actually wants to advance bikes. What good would it do them.

 

[- seb]

the standard aluminum I-Drive (now in its 8th year) is white noise.

More than that I think, I'm sure Peat was riding a DHi in 1998? Which makes this it's ELEVENTH year. And many people on here will still tell you that it's the best riding DH bike they ever owned :biggrin:

 

[gemini2k]

Well get your doubt on then... F1 has been using carbon for years.... but I can't remember the last time F1 had anything to do with DH in the slightest bit. But everyone has there own opinion I guess. Here's to GT calling attention to them selves Its not like GT has done anything for the bike industry anyways right... How naive of me to think GT actually wants to advance bikes. What good would it do them.

Ummm, FYI probably EVERY advancement in the bike industry is "borrowed" or "inspired" from some other industry. ESPECIALLY on the materials side of things. Bike companies A. don't have the financial resources or B. the "manpower" to make huge advances on there own.
Ya, fast race vehicles using modern materials to save weight and increase strength.....I'm sure GT can learn nothing from F1...especially when Ferarri and Toyota have about a $1.5 billion budget between the 2 of them annually. Something tells me any REAL advances in things like carbon fiber will come from them before someone like GT (p.s. I love GT and have 2 of their bikes and will probably buy this one too!)

 

[- seb]

"Excuse me? Mr Ferrari sir? Yeah you don't know me, but I work for a bike company - yes, that's right sir, the type you pedal. Anyway, we were wondering if you could send us some details of how you make your super-secret mega-F1 car pretty please? Oh go on, we'll pay you, er, well, sweet FA. We can't even pay you enough for it to be worth you getting out of bed really, just give us your tech. All your base are belong to us Ferrari bitch-mother-fukka!"

Yeah, I don't think so somehow. I also doubt they've bought a Lahar or a BCD.

 

[Zutroy]

in proper diameters it can be stiff. not an implausible material choice - better longevity than aluminum, lighter than steel - but cost prohibitive i imagine. canfield was talking about doing a custom ti-front big bike a while back; i'm assuming that never materialized.

Agreed look at Dan Atherton's 4x bike. Stiff Ti HT.

Ti can be expensive, it's also hard to sometimes get the tubes you want if they're not being used in something else or like ABG you have the machines to form you own tubing.

 

[gemini2k]

Ugggggggggggggggggggggggg. Obviously you don't understand science and technology. There are technologies that spill over. Half the reason F1 exsits is to improve car technology. Honda and Toyota send a lot of their new engineers to work on F1 to get experience and to develop technologies for their road cars. Where do you think the technology for ferrari's road cars come from.........................BINGO F1 cars!!! Do you think paddle shifters came from some GM engineers sitting around try out how to make a road corvette shift faster? Nope. Did the technology for v-8's that rev to 9200rpm come from hot rodding street cars? Hmmmmm, doubt it! Then these things get released to conusmer models.....and the technology works its way down into different applications. Why do you think the new vettes look so much like 360's from a few yeras ago? Maybe because GM bought some 360's and disected them? Nah, THATS CRAZY!!! Oh wait, its EXACTLY what they did. Anyways, then these technologies work their way down to things like bikes, and bingo we get better bikes!

 

[no skid marks]

Somehow I would doubt it. nothing against BCD and Lahar, but there are more obvious and highly advanced (and more refined) applications of carbon fiber outside the bike industry; like, oh I don't know, maybe F1 for example.

Apparently the GT IT1 came out not long after they saw the first Lahar, wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
The I-Drive idea is executed so poorly, Mongoose are doing it heaps better. Why have the I-Drive when the pivots just above the chain ring on a DH bike anyway? Might be benneficial for multi ringed XC bikes, but DH with the pivot there, I don't think so.
I too would have much ratherd see the IT! developed.

 

[xy9ine]

paul brodie (brodie bikes) & alex morgan (bcd) came out with nexus-based gearbox bikes in 1997, as did the original gt gearbox proto. not sure if there was an originator, or if they came out concurrently (when was the first lahar built?).

damn, it's been a decade. where are all our production gearbox bikes??

 

[klunky]

"Excuse me? Mr Ferrari sir? Yeah you don't know me, but I work for a bike company - yes, that's right sir, the type you pedal. Anyway, we were wondering if you could send us some details of how you make your super-secret mega-F1 car pretty please? Oh go on, we'll pay you, er, well, sweet FA. We can't even pay you enough for it to be worth you getting out of bed really, just give us your tech. All your base are belong to us Ferrari bitch-mother-fukka!"

Colnago did this and it worked

 

[P.T.W]

Apparently the GT IT1 came out not long after they saw the first Lahar,

Did Aaron tell you this????Acording to him EVERYONE copyed him

 

[UncaJohn]

It's strange how those big brands manage to make fortunes by ripping the intelectual property of other people (small inventors).
The I-Drive system is a copy of the following patent:

PCT/GR 99/00031
WO 12376, EC classification B62K19/34,B62K25/28C,
EP 1024994.

And to be more precise for those who will find it rather. boring to look into the EU patent database the comparisson of the PCT/GR 99/00031 with GT's I-Drive sets the PCT/GR 99/00031 ahead in patending dates (cat. P)

I know, as i own this patent....

 

[UncaJohn]

 

[ralf007]

you can get round that by using Ti hardware, it expands at the same rate and you wont need to protect the frame from galvanic corrosion by layers of fibreglass etc

yea right

i worked with ti and carbon for 5 years working in the americas cup

carbon will eat away at the ti

 

[StyledAirtime]

Apparently the GT IT1 came out not long after they saw the first Lahar, wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
.

awesome. I love this sort of bike love. Blind and fully trusting. Lahar farts and ever one else had to bend over to sniff it to come up with ideas.
is that why they didnt bring out the IT1 to the public for 7-8 years ,coz lahar takes ages to build a bike so they thought theyd copy them?

 

[rb92078]

You know its this attitude of straight hate that really makes people ignorant. At least on USA side. With GT actually investing money into DH it can only help the state of American gravity racing. I know I don't have the budget or the means to excell this sport. So what if GT jumps on the wagon, or is just designing to bring attention.... In the grand scheme of things its a positive sign and maybe if we stop hating on their efforts then they will find a reason to try and help bring DH back to where it should be. They held their release for the DHI in Livigno...??? WTF. (probably cause they get more love there than they would here.) Same goes for everyone else in th USA that is designing. You won't find Peaty bashing Orange, and you won't find Fabien bashing on Lappierre. Commmencal was no one 3 years ago. Lets embrace our companies and get on with it.

 

[CBJ]

That is like bike version of Rodney Kings "Can't we all be friends".

 

[OGRipper]

It's strange how those big brands manage to make fortunes by ripping the intelectual property of other people (small inventors).
The I-Drive system is a copy of the following patent:

PCT/GR 99/00031
WO 12376, EC classification B62K19/34,B62K25/28C,
EP 1024994.

And to be more precise for those who will find it rather. boring to look into the EU patent database the comparisson of the PCT/GR 99/00031 with GT's I-Drive sets the PCT/GR 99/00031 ahead in patending dates (cat. P)

I know, as i own this patent....

Have you tried to enforce your rights? If so, what happened? If not, why not?

 

[gemini2k]

They held their release for the DHI in Livigno...??? WTF. (probably cause they get more love there than they would here.) Same goes for everyone else in th USA that is designing. You won't find Peaty bashing Orange, and you won't find Fabien bashing on Lappierre. Commmencal was no one 3 years ago. Lets embrace our companies and get on with it.

There showing it off to dealers in the midwest weeks ago

 

[blong]

Have you tried to enforce your rights? If so, what happened? If not, why not?

Ya, what's the story here?

I've heard that it's pretty common for big companies to just step all over patents if they think that the patent owner doesn't have the $ to enforce the patent.

 

[stiksandstones]

What??? It takes more than one company to evolve technology. Its like taking a gnarly line, the one who ginnies the line isn't necassarily gonna be the fastest guy at the end of the day. I know carbon has been used before for DH applications, but I can bet you anything that the guys at GT had a good look at designs by BCD, or Lahar... Which definitely helped them take the leap as well.

I can bet you anything the 'guy' at GT has never heard of a BCD and probably a lahair.

 

[ÆX]

paul brodie (brodie bikes) & alex morgan (bcd) came out with nexus-based gearbox bikes in 1997, as did the original gt gearbox proto. not sure if there was an originator, or if they came out concurrently (when was the first lahar built?).



damn, it's been a decade. where are all our production gearbox bikes??

really, i thought first production carbon would not have taken this long.

mine was shown first @ big bear NCS 1997. it was the first gearbox dh bike.
gt designers were at big bear that spring and talked to me a bit. brodie called
me later that summer to pick my brain. both of then didn't show till interbike that fall.

 

[- seb]

1) anyone know when these might be available to buy

2) anyonw know what size the BB is?

(might be about to buy some new cranks, may hold off if the bike will be available soonish and the BB width is different to what I need now).

cheers