[vitox]

Pinkbike and sicklines are both reporting that they're saying it's 36mm, airspring, and the decals are just to screw with people.

in that case the decals have done their job really well, stanchions look wider thats for sure, air spring sounds nice but then again, if they dont get rid of the spv decals and inside crap, they are going to shoot themselves in the foot once again.

anyway, at farkin the guy was saying it weighed 2,7kg, thats around what the boxxer wc weighs so, cant see the benefit of going inverted again.

 

[Kornphlake]

Yeah. Really wierd since Hayes owns Manitou now.
Almost as wierd as Sram debuting the new RS and Avid stuff.

You're right, I wouldn't think twice about a bike with rock shox forks and hayes brakes showing up in the avid booth... except for the fact that avid makes brakes that compete with hayes.

 

[bElliott]

i almost want to agree. it looks the same as the last SPV dorado. just gold labels. but it could be back, because HB suspension now owns manitou.
could have sworen they were getting away from standard spv and calling it something else.
plus, that fork would have big prototype stickers on it

the only hint is that the crown has boxxer integrated stem...new?

 

[davep]

Someone please tell that guy to run his tire the correct way (and change to something other than a dry hardpack tire..).
I can't imagine how bad a backward comp 24 would be in all the mud up there this last week. Maybe that helps hide the performance of the fork.
Gotta say, that I think it is a little funny to see a 'leaked' pic of a proto fork leaking oil in the same way that all manitou forks do.
Why the F**k dont they just put an oil seal in their forks...it can't be stiction (think marz). Why would anyone ever buy a fork from a company that cannot even solve (or just copy what has been done for many years) the most basic engineering problems...

 

[frznnomad]

originally posted by muddy fox
Hayes tent

i think i can agree with everyone here and say that the lowers and the overal assthetics of the fork are well awsome, and who knows maybee they fixed all the problems, and if they havent yet they do have two years to work on it. ohh and does anybody else relize that its in the hayes tent with gustave rotors, leavers, and calipers. just thought i would make that observation.

 

[bikerpunk98199]

the guys who bike it is rides for sun ringle and since sun is owned by hayes and hayes also owns manipoo... i talked to the lead tech about it today he wouldnt say much more than its all new and its NOT SPV

 

[blackspire]

Someone please tell that guy to run his tire the correct way (and change to something other than a dry hardpack tire..).
I can't imagine how bad a backward comp 24 would be in all the mud up there this last week. Maybe that helps hide the performance of the fork.
Gotta say, that I think it is a little funny to see a 'leaked' pic of a proto fork leaking oil in the same way that all manitou forks do.
Why the F**k dont they just put an oil seal in their forks...it can't be stiction (think marz). Why would anyone ever buy a fork from a company that cannot even solve (or just copy what has been done for many years) the most basic engineering problems...

Which of the pics show it leaking oil?

 

[bizutch]

I'm getting wood b/c someone mentioned the SHIVER.

 

[davep]

Which of the pics show it leaking oil?

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=320789

The last itteration of this fork was SOOO bad that Answer was refunding $$ (buying the forks back), because they simply could not figure out how to make them work.

There were so many poorly designed parts and ideas in that fork, I dont know where to start.

 

[Bearmntpicnic]

i would ride it.

 

[T3h1337r]

Someone please tell that guy to run his tire the correct way (and change to something other than a dry hardpack tire..).
I can't imagine how bad a backward comp 24 would be in all the mud up there this last week. Maybe that helps hide the performance of the fork.
Gotta say, that I think it is a little funny to see a 'leaked' pic of a proto fork leaking oil in the same way that all manitou forks do.
Why the F**k dont they just put an oil seal in their forks...it can't be stiction (think marz). Why would anyone ever buy a fork from a company that cannot even solve (or just copy what has been done for many years) the most basic engineering problems...

I know this is a pretty old post and way past necro posting but **** dude, do you not know nothing about inverted forks. They ALL leak. My shivers leak a tad. The oil rests on the seals. It happens. When I store my dh bike with 888's upside down for extended periods of time the seals leak. When I store my shivers right side up for an extended period of time they leak. See a pattern

 

[IH8Rice]

I know this is a pretty old post and way past necro posting but **** dude, do you not know nothing about inverted forks. They ALL leak. My shivers leak a tad.

1.yes this thread is way past necro posting
and
2. not ALL inverted forks leak.
knock on wood... my Foes F1 doesnt leak, nor did my Dorado, or my two Shivers that ive had. take better care of your bike and you wont have leaks.

 

[xy9ine]

my whitebros dh2.0 (on the original seals / wipers) never leaked for the 3 years i ran them (for what it's worth).

 

[xy9ine]

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=320789

The last itteration of this fork was SOOO bad that Answer was refunding $$ (buying the forks back), because they simply could not figure out how to make them work.

There were so many poorly designed parts and ideas in that fork, I dont know where to start.

yep. i'm kinda surprised people are so stoked about the upcoming offering given the tragedy that was the previous iteration. i'll admit they certainly do look trick (and if they do turn out to work, i'll be all over a set).

 

[IH8Rice]

my whitebros dh2.0 (on the original seals / wipers) never leaked for the 3 years i ran them (for what it's worth).

well that might be a one in a million for a white brothers..the older UD180 forks were one exception to my last statement

yep. i'm kinda surprised people are so stoked about the upcoming offering given the tragedy that was the previous iteration. i'll admit they certainly do look trick (and if they do turn out to work, i'll be all over a set).

if i dont get the new Kowa fork, the new Dorado is a def go for me...though my older Dorado had mini cracks throughout the uppers and Manitou said they "just recently ran out of replacement parts for it"(three years ago).....supposedly two weeks before i sent it to them for service....go figure

 

[no skid marks]

I know this is a pretty old post and way past necro posting but **** dude, do you not know nothing about inverted forks. They ALL leak. My shivers leak a tad. The oil rests on the seals. It happens. When I store my dh bike with 888's upside down for extended periods of time the seals leak. When I store my shivers right side up for an extended period of time they leak. See a pattern

The oil also rests on the bushes, they're the moving parts that are in contact with the stanchions and should be lubricated.

 

[davep]

I know this is a pretty old post and way past necro posting but **** dude, do you not know nothing about inverted forks. They ALL leak. My shivers leak a tad. The oil rests on the seals. It happens. When I store my dh bike with 888's upside down for extended periods of time the seals leak. When I store my shivers right side up for an extended period of time they leak. See a pattern

If you are going to pull up multi-year old posts to criticise something, at least know what you are talikng about. FYI, forks that use a proper oil seal (Marz, most current RS, etc) do not and should not leak ANY oil. If your forks leak in any way, whether they are right side up, or up-side down, you have some maintainance to do.

Do high pressure hudraulic systems leak? Check out any piece of construction equip or any other pressurized hydraulic system. They use the exact same configuration (and quite possibly the exact same part as marz, since that is their primary biz).
Are rear shocks supposed to leak as well? Many of them use the same sealing configuration?
Ever look into commercial hydraulic sealing parts and procedures? What is available? Seal durometers? Tollerance parameters? Pressure ratings? Secondary/wiper requirements? Energized vs. non-energized?

I have.


Only pattern I see, is that your forks have issues....

 

[IH8Rice]

If you are going to pull up multi-year old posts to criticise something, at least know what you are talikng about. FYI, forks that use a proper oil seal (Marz, most current RS, etc) do not and should not leak ANY oil. If your forks leak in any way, whether they are right side up, or up-side down, you have some maintainance to do.

Do high pressure hudraulic systems leak? Check out any piece of construction equip or any other pressurized hydraulic system. They use the exact same configuration (and quite possibly the exact same part as marz, since that is their primary biz).
Are rear shocks supposed to leak as well? Many of them use the same sealing configuration?
Ever look into commercial hydraulic sealing parts and procedures? What is available? Seal durometers? Tollerance parameters? Pressure ratings? Secondary/wiper requirements? Energized vs. non-energized?

I have.


Only pattern I see, is that your forks have issues....

 

[no skid marks]

Only pattern I see, is that your forks have issues....

I can see another "issues" pattern he has.

 

[davep]

yep. i'm kinda surprised people are so stoked about the upcoming offering given the tragedy that was the previous iteration. i'll admit they certainly do look trick (and if they do turn out to work, i'll be all over a set).

I was in whistler for two weeks over c-works that year I had that fork. It spent several days with manitou and the tech said they had a 'fix' for it but it would take them 2 days to get it done. I picked the fork up when they were done and talked to them a bit about the (at that time ) official, but 'riders only' fix. Turns out, they just ran a 1/16" drill bit straight through the compression piston to eliminate teh SPV. Too bad, it also killed ANY compresion damping and allowed the fork to bottom with just about any impact.
I blew the expansion chamber in the fork three times over that time (even with the fork off the bike for a good part of the time). And tried three sets of seals to attempt to keep the bushing lube off my brakes with no luck.

I will say, though Manitou (Tech guys in cali) bent over backwards for me. They expedited me parts to whitler, and even got the Canadian guys to get me parts overnight (via one of the guys comming up to the mountain) from Van so I could ride on my 'vacation'.

Then about a month later, when parts were still breaking regularly (I fixed the seal leaking issues via my own sourced parts) and I started to get oil weeping between the carbon lay-up and the top cap boss, and Manitou admitted the earlier damper 'Fix' was a short term patch. I confronted them about turning my fork into the most expensive ported damper ever made..and they agreed but had given up on engineering a true fix for the SPV.

Sooo they gave 100% of my money back...complete refund. Best CS offer I have ever seen in the bike world.

It still absolutely blows me away how little product testing is done on sooooo many MTB products. Why the he11 are we PAYING to be product testers for the industry????

 

[Udi]

Hey davep, I'm no manitou (or invert) fan, but I'm not sure I'd call what was in that picture an oil leak by any means. Given where the damp patch is - above the wiper on the fork leg - I'd just be inclined to say that it's the oil from the grease while installing the seals. Given it's a new fork it makes sense to me, every time I rebuild a fork the same thing happens after the first ride or two and then it stops. The stanchion itself looks dusty and not wet at all to me.

Also - not a dorado expert, but didn't manitou actually switch to an oil seal in the later dorados? I vaguely recall something that suggested that in Orvan's long dorado thread.

 

[Transcend]

According to a certain rider who has ridden and tested the fork extensively over the last month or 3, the damper feels amazing and the fork is plenty stiff. From what I was told, the big problem right now is the seals. They are super tight, and the stiction is insane. As soon as they run looser seals, it leaks like a sieve. It needs a few tweaks but apparently is well on it's way.

 

[davep]

Hey davep, I'm no manitou (or invert) fan, but I'm not sure I'd call what was in that picture an oil leak by any means. Given where the damp patch is - above the wiper on the fork leg - I'd just be inclined to say that it's the oil from the grease while installing the seals. Given it's a new fork it makes sense to me, every time I rebuild a fork the same thing happens after the first ride or two and then it stops. The stanchion itself looks dusty and not wet at all to me.

Also - not a dorado expert, but didn't manitou actually switch to an oil seal in the later dorados? I vaguely recall something that suggested that in Orvan's long dorado thread.

Looking back at the pics I quoted, I would tend to agree with you...maybe there was another pic that I saw (dont remember that far back)....I know there were a few different pics floating around at the time. Or maybe I was picturing/projecting my dorado on those photos????? Maybe I was drinking?

Mine was an X-works..so really the most recent iteration (untill now) and it had the same stupid evil genius 'seals' and foam ring (that was the 'upgrade' from the older wipers and grease lube). It poured oil every single day I ever rode it. Tried maybe five sets of seals from Manitou before I sourced some cup seals that fit directly in the space for the foam ring.

 

[IH8Rice]

According to a certain rider who has ridden and tested the fork extensively over the last month or 3, the damper feels amazing and the fork is plenty stiff. From what I was told, the big problem right now is the seals. They are super tight, and the stiction is insane. As soon as they run looser seals, it leaks like a sieve. It needs a few tweaks but apparently is well on it's way.

i did try C. Heath's new Dorado and it did feel a bit sticky...i thought it was just cause it was new

 

[bansheefr]

Only read the first page so this may have been stated, but...

not to mention, if manitou were to have a test rider for the fork, wouldn't they be using kovarik or one of their reputable racers to really test it? manitou doesn't have any yeti riders, and i doubt they'd toss a proto to an otherwise unknown racer instead of to a world cup competitor.

 

[davep]

I would assume that it is not up to par with what WC riders what/need at this point. If they are making large changes to the fork that may or may not work at all.....you certianly would not want to 'test' it with a WC racer at an event. You would want to give the test units to riders who can give educated feedback, but wont loose their WC standings if something goes awry.



I think there was a pic of Kovarik at C-works last week riding it however...

 

[Transcend]

I think there was a pic of Kovarik at C-works last week riding it however...

He did try it, among others.

 

[Iridemtb]

I was on the lift with a tester at diablo.

He said it's going to be made carbon. There is bottom out control. It feels "endless", and it is air with completley different internals than the old dorado.

 

[1453]

According to a certain rider who has ridden and tested the fork extensively over the last month or 3, the damper feels amazing and the fork is plenty stiff. From what I was told, the big problem right now is the seals. They are super tight, and the stiction is insane. As soon as they run looser seals, it leaks like a sieve. It needs a few tweaks but apparently is well on it's way.

that's weird, since a bunch of multi-year old Shivers I see have absolutely no issue with leaks whatsoever. I have been periodically riding on my 04 Shiver SC and no new seals seems necessary. It can't be that hard if it was a bunch of 03 forks were able to do it.

or does it have anything to do with the difference between the TPC/SPV stuff and the oil-bath internals of the Shivers?

 

[SupaTone]

Kovarik was riding them at Crankworx and still is... http://www.crcintense.com

 

[stiksandstones]

Gotta make you wonder, would CK be winning if he was another fork. Outlandish proposal, but that's what I am here for.

 

[Fonzie18]

Gotta make you wonder, would CK be winning if he was another fork. Outlandish proposal, but that's what I am here for.

Nah, he has been riding a Travis too.

 

[Racebike]

And a Travis would be a step up?

Let's see him use something from another brand instead.

 

[Huck Banzai]

Manitou hate. Find something else to do. Maybe a nice 40 for you.

kthxbai

 

[sayndesyn]

After Kovarik is married and has someone to make him meatloaf each night I am sure he will be back to total domination. I imagine it is the stress of wedding planning that sometimes leads to his inconsistent results. Soon the ham sized calves will be on the top step of the podium. Soon.

Gotta make you wonder, would CK be winning if he was another fork. Outlandish proposal, but that's what I am here for.

 

[ohio]

the damper feels amazing ... the stiction is insane.

No offense, but it seems difficult to claim the damper feels amazing if the stiction is insane. You wouldn't be able to feel any small bump sensitivity, and it may even chatter badly through high speed sections. In fact, it would feel a lot like SPV.

edit(s):
-Curious that they wouldn't go to an oversize axle. With the price of this fork, a proprietary hub is no big deal, and they could eek a bit more stiffness or weight-savings with a 24 or 30mm axle.
-Here's to bringing back TPC+. Name it something new if you have to, but bring it back. It's gotta hurt someone's feelings that Rockshox is tearing up the market with a blatant ripoff of their design that they discarded for something(s) worse.
-My shiver SC never leaked and was deliciously supple over the small stuff. Someone should have shoved those 32mm seals in their Dorado (non-MRD).
-Every Manitou product I've ever used (Swinger 6, Sherman, Travis) has been awful... I mean, really inexcusably bad. SRAM fixed Rockshox; maybe Hayes can fix Manitou.

 

[General Lee]

SRAM fixed Rockshox; maybe Hayes can fix Manitou.

Hayes can't even fix Hayes

 

[ilfreerider]

imo ,manitou rear coil shocks are good (on par with dhx,roco) and reliable.
rear air shocks are far superior (swinger 4way and evolver) to the competition (dhx air ,roco air ,monarch) and the recsent crop of stroker brakes is very nice (power,weight,price,reliabilty).
in regards to the forks ,apart from the r7 (xc) and minute (xc/trail) ,they should replace the entire lineup (coming 2010) !!!
as for the new dorado , imo its a mistake and will probaly be expensive ,unreliable and flexy (hope im wrong though).

 

[Damo]

I'm certainly no Manitou fan, but I would like to see them make a comeback with an amazing product. However, given their past, they will release an 'all-new' product which will fall flat on it's face. I really hope they come through with this one. Would be exciting.

I would also love to try a lightweight, perfectly working upside-down fork.

 

[bushwacker]

I guess i'll be the only one at the Angel Fire Burner with a 2003 Dorado and a Swinger 6-way.