So my chain thread brought up a good point. 9spd sucks and really doesn't work for DH. YMMV, but what's required to go back to 8spd? Chain cassette and shifter, obviously, but do I need a new dérailleur or freehub, or are they compatible?
9Spd kind of sucks. 8Spd?
- Thread starter Sandwich
- Start date
-
- Tags
- forced obsolescence
chain cassette and shifter is all that is needed. everything else is compatible
Actuall just the cassette and shifter is all that is needed, even the nine speed chain is compatible
nope, the spacing between the gears is different so it pulls a different amount of cable. not compatible
thanks dude. fact is I don't need 9 gears, and from what I understand most of the 8/7/6 stuff is all compatible, so there's no need to reduce further.
I've been thinking about upgrading shifters soon, and I might need a new Der to go with that...plus I broke my chain...might be a good time to just switch.
I would suggest against 9 speed chain with an 8 speed cassette. It will work, but not as well as 8 speed chain.
Sandwich, what is your primary complaint with 9 speed?
Do you feel it's more gears than necessary?
Do you prefer the robustness of 8 speed chain (I.E. are you snapping chains)?
Do you feel that the shifting of 8 speed is better?
I ask because I've messed with 8 speed stuff quite a bit.
If you prefer to run fewer gears, but have no problem with the 9 speed chain strength or shifting crispness, you can simply remove your least favorite gears from your cassette and run lightweight aluminum spacers in their place. Be sure to use your limit screws to accommodate this!
If you prefer 8 speed for shifting or strength reasons, you can just as easily run spacers here to remove gears.
I used 8 speed chain and cassette with all but my 3 favorite gears removed for 3 seasons of slalom/4x, works very well and it's nice to have the gears you want in the order you want.
Mostly because I don't feel the need for 9 gears, and it seems like shimano compromised the strength of the chains to shrink it to fit 9 gears. The best shifting bike I've ever had was a 3x9 brand new all-shimano drivetrain, but my DH bike is seriously suffering.
I figure I'll make the switch primarily because I need a new shifter, as I'm currently running gripshift and I just don't like it for DH. Along with that, the derailleur is 1:1, and I prefer shimano shifters, so I may need a new one of those as well. Lastly, I just broke my chain, and the lack of a quality 9 speed chain manufacturer is surprising and extremely disappointing. It seems that everybody, from the high end KMCs, the XTRs, and the wippermans, all suck for certain people and do just fine for others. I'm not entirely sure what that means, but I'd rather move to something that works just fine for everybody.
I guess I'm just after something that's a little less fickle, and since I extremely rarely find myself using EVERY gear in a day, I usually find the sweet spot and use the lowlow gears to go uphill. Lastly, I don't race so I don't need a corn cob cassette for the perfect ratio.
I figure I'll make the switch primarily because I need a new shifter, as I'm currently running gripshift and I just don't like it for DH. Along with that, the derailleur is 1:1, and I prefer shimano shifters, so I may need a new one of those as well. Lastly, I just broke my chain, and the lack of a quality 9 speed chain manufacturer is surprising and extremely disappointing. It seems that everybody, from the high end KMCs, the XTRs, and the wippermans, all suck for certain people and do just fine for others. I'm not entirely sure what that means, but I'd rather move to something that works just fine for everybody.
I guess I'm just after something that's a little less fickle, and since I extremely rarely find myself using EVERY gear in a day, I usually find the sweet spot and use the lowlow gears to go uphill. Lastly, I don't race so I don't need a corn cob cassette for the perfect ratio.
It seems like your biggest issue with your shifting has been your maintenance. You yourself said your chain broke because of something loose in the derailleur. Have you changed your cables and housing recently? (won't affect chain breakage but makes a significant change to your shifting). You are also going to wear out a chain a lot faster if you are trying to climb on a single ringed bike...dh or slalom. my guess is you are standing and using power to go up the hill instead of a normal setup where you can sit and spin. Yet another way you are going to wear a chain a lot faster.
9spd works great for anyone who is willing to perform basic maintenance on their bike and keep an eye on things. A loose der will screw up any shifting. bad cables and housing as well. that isnt an issue of 9 vs 8 vs 7/6 whatever. maintain your bike, and it will work a lot better for a lot longer.
You could do what I do and run 7 speed but with 9 speed spacing. I just leave spacers on the inside and outside of the gear cluster, inside to leave more space so the derailer doesn't go into the spokes on the lower gears and space on the outside because sram derailers dont like to go into that gear when they've been hit hard. I run a standard 9speed chain and cassete[minus 2 cogs] and standard 9 speed shifter.
What kind of chain did you break, did a link slide off of a pin? Did it have a power-link? or the special-shimano pin when it was installed?
Nope, wasn't a matter of maintenance. The chain was in pretty good shape, the cassette is in good shape, and the derailleur, while old, is in good working order. It could probably use a tuneup and new cable, but I had it shifting fine. The reason the derailleur was loose was because I had switched axle mounting plates, and probably failed to tighten it properly, or something along those lines. It was the first ride of the season.
I broke a shimano hg92, which I believe is the XT level 9spd chain. The link split open so it was bent, and the other side was off the pin on one side. It was on a factory link/pin. No powerlink or replacement pin.
To JamesDC11, my point is why not go to 8spd, where you get wider tolerances, and a more durable chain, and still remove one cog? I know modern stuff is the bees knees, but Sram still makes attack shifters and Shimano XT shifters for 8spd. Cassettes up to 5 level in Sram or NOS shimano items...
I broke a shimano hg92, which I believe is the XT level 9spd chain. The link split open so it was bent, and the other side was off the pin on one side. It was on a factory link/pin. No powerlink or replacement pin.
To JamesDC11, my point is why not go to 8spd, where you get wider tolerances, and a more durable chain, and still remove one cog? I know modern stuff is the bees knees, but Sram still makes attack shifters and Shimano XT shifters for 8spd. Cassettes up to 5 level in Sram or NOS shimano items...
I run a X9 shifter, X9 derailleur, shimano 8spd casette and 8spd chain. It shifts fine, much better than the 105 derailleur and stx shifter with same cassette and chain.
I dont know what your defenition is of fine, but the spacing between the gears isnt the same between 8 and 9 sp systems, the shifter moves the chain different Distances between cogs. there is no way you can have that shift properly throughout the range of the cassette
I didn't read the chain thread but what it sounds like is either improper setup and/or lack of maintainence. You said it yourself that the best shifting setup you ever used was a 3x9. An improperly setup 8 speed is going to shift just as badly as an improperly setup 9 speed.
I run Sram X5(old X7)and Sram XO mech and whatever casette all 8 speed on my BMW. On my other bikes I run the same everything but 6 speed on a Profile single speed hub(dissssshhhhless)and I've just bought a Hadley single speed to also build up 6speed.
8 speed is better, more reliable, and bigger clunkier more obvious shifts, I prefer it.
On the Racelink, the rubber chainsaty gaurd can foul an 11 speed cassette cog if the chain runs over it. Make sure it's tight and out of the way. I personally removed it and run a stick on one instead.
8 speed is better, more reliable, and bigger clunkier more obvious shifts, I prefer it.
On the Racelink, the rubber chainsaty gaurd can foul an 11 speed cassette cog if the chain runs over it. Make sure it's tight and out of the way. I personally removed it and run a stick on one instead.
Not true. Because of the slightly wider tolerances of 8 speed, you can be slightly less perfect in your setup, and get away with it. Myself, I prefer running a SRAM 8 speed X-7 trigger, and whatever deraileur you want. I find that the 1:1 ratio stuff allows for a less precise setup, or at least one thats more tolerant to mud and off-tension. I just really, really wish 8 speed x.9 or even x.0 shifters were available.
After running 9 speed for a few years, I've made the shift back to 8.
I like 8 much better, it's stronger, and much more forgiving after your drivetrain hits rocks, branches, and mud.
Favorite setup I've yet run is an 8 speed/Saint m801. Fookin indestructable.
Although... if Sram got off their collective asses and issued an 8 speed XO trigger with 890/891 level cassette, I'd definately be tempted by the darkside and buy a pretzely Sram drivetrain.
I like 8 much better, it's stronger, and much more forgiving after your drivetrain hits rocks, branches, and mud.
Favorite setup I've yet run is an 8 speed/Saint m801. Fookin indestructable.
Although... if Sram got off their collective asses and issued an 8 speed XO trigger with 890/891 level cassette, I'd definately be tempted by the darkside and buy a pretzely Sram drivetrain.
Last edited:
This is wrong. I can't believe you work at a bike shop.
While it might spin and make movements that resemble shifts, it certainly doesn't work even close to as well as it could. You give a guy **** for running a 9sp shifter on an 8sp cassette, and then tell somebody to run a 9sp chain? WTF?
Besides, the main advantage of an 8sp system is the stronger chain.
To the OP, I switched back to 8sp on my DH bike last year. The cassettes are lighter and cheaper. Good shifters are hard to find. If you can settle for X7 quality, the attack shifter with a 105 or better derailluer is a decent setup.
My chain life is at least triple what it was before. This is more of a convenience factor than anything.
Also, I bent the piss out of my Dura-ace derailluer and it shifts fine after man-handling it back to "straight enough".
Not trying to be too 
but I have a set of 8sp shifters and a derailleur I don't need. I know you said you were thinking about shimano, but I have a SRAM 9.0 rear mech with either 9.0 or x.0 shifters. Might even have a cassette too. Just don't need them anymore if you're interested.
but I have a set of 8sp shifters and a derailleur I don't need. I know you said you were thinking about shimano, but I have a SRAM 9.0 rear mech with either 9.0 or x.0 shifters. Might even have a cassette too. Just don't need them anymore if you're interested.
definitely interested...I now have two 9.0 mechs, one classic and one more modern, so I could be swayed into using SRAM products pretty easily. I need triggers though, I have no desire to run gripshifts again.
PM me what you got. I might be able to swing down and pick it up some time, or if you're going to a mountain I can meet you there. Thanks for the heads up.
____________________________________________________________________________________
OK, so shifters,
I can get XT level, X.5, or Attack. Are any of these any good, and which would you pick? Like I said, I have a couple of SRAM derailleurs but prefer the shimano trigger/thumb setup.
PM me what you got. I might be able to swing down and pick it up some time, or if you're going to a mountain I can meet you there. Thanks for the heads up.
____________________________________________________________________________________
OK, so shifters,
I can get XT level, X.5, or Attack. Are any of these any good, and which would you pick? Like I said, I have a couple of SRAM derailleurs but prefer the shimano trigger/thumb setup.
I said it was compatible, in a responce to.... What would I need. I never said it would be perfect, But hey its not like I have never seen it done, and never seen it work just fine. Does this mean the shimano reccomended 10 sp chain on my road bike wont work at all because its a nine speed cassette??? Wioth 10sp derailers front and rear.
I didnt pull this info out of my a$$, I got it talking to Shimano tech. The derailer still pulls the same amount. Do I thikn he should, probably not, do I belive it works without problems, YES. Because I have tested it myself on my own bikes.
In responce to the 9 sp shifter on an 8 sp cassette, there is no way its going to shift properly at all, your shifter isnt going to pull the chain far enough through all the gears. Thats simple fact.
Edit.... Maybe I should have been more clear, if your going to keep you 9sp derailer, you should use the 9sp chain, seeing how the chain is wider, and wont roll in the derailer properly.
Edit2...... Truth be told, if your getting a new cassette, you really should be getting a new chain anyways....Reguardless.....
Last edited:
My 8 speed sram set up works fine with a 9 speed chain. It may be more accurate with an 8 speed chain, but the 9 works fine for me. I'm only running it because I have it, and I will use an 8spd chain next,but my current set up is more reliable than a complete 9spd set up IMO.
I'd only recomend 9spd chain if you already have a near new one, otherwise just buy the correct 8spd one as it will change gears minutely quicker..
Last edited:
By 9 sp cassette, you mean 9 sp chain right???
Well Dirty Mike, I am not recomending my setup or regurgitating industry "info" but when I start in the largest cog and press the upshift button once...guess what..., it shifts one cog at a time all the way to the smallest cog and vice versa. Maybe I got lucky, but say what you want, it works and I have not lost the chain yet.
It depends on your budget. There may be something that is more ideal but I didn't want to replace anything that I didn't have to.I gave it a try and and it works well enough that I am getting the gears that I want, when I want them, quickly. Just giving personal experience, nothing more.
It depends on your budget. There may be something that is more ideal but I didn't want to replace anything that I didn't have to.I gave it a try and and it works well enough that I am getting the gears that I want, when I want them, quickly. Just giving personal experience, nothing more.
Well, since they don't really make 8sp derailluers anymore, 9sp is really your only choice. I don't think the .2mm is gonna cause the chain to not fit through the cage.
Yeah, sorry.
And I was pointing out you listed it as workign perfectly, which is not possible, if you truly have a 9SP shifter, on an 8sp cassette, we have had this discussion many times here
If it truly is shifting perfectly, then you eiterh have an 8 sp shifter, or you have a cutdown nine speed cassette