[Downhillbiker23]

I edited my first post
I see everyone running tiny cassettes with a tiny chain ring, meanwhile people say to run larger toothed gears, Can someone explain to my the advantage and disadvantges



This year I am building a new bike and am looking to make it pedal efficently and I am not an expert on the chainrings and cassette combonations. It is tr450 and I would obviously be riding DH
i was thinking
11-28 cassette 10 speed
34 tooth chain ring

Would you think that would be good?
Thanks for the opinions

 

[offtheedge]

If you truly want to pedal it I think you need at least a 34 in the rear. A 34 up front is fine.
I believe with that frame you could get away with a 34t in back and still run a short cage due to the lack of chain growth.

 

[Downhillbiker23]

If you truly want to pedal it I think you need at least a 34 in the rear. A 34 up front is fine.
I believe with that frame you could get away with a 34t in back and still run a short cage due to the lack of chain growth.

Thanks for the imput
Why is that I always thought the smaller the cassette the better the pedal output

 

[marshalolson]

how tight of a gear range do you want? do you need to go up hill? how flat/open/steep/pedally/tight/technical are your trails?

if you are only riding DH and shuttles, and actually want to go fast, look for a 36t minimum front, and 11-23 or 11-25 rear cassette.

 

[offtheedge]

how tight of a gear range do you want? do you need to go up hill? how flat/open/steep/pedally/tight/technical are your trails?

if you are only riding DH and shuttles, and actually want to go fast, look for a 36t minimum front, and 11-23 or 11-25 rear cassette.

Yeah, i didn't really question what he meant by efficient. My suggestion was for a DH bike that you could pedal around. If it's pedal power you are looking for then the above is what you are looking for.

 

[Downhillbiker23]

how tight of a gear range do you want? do you need to go up hill? how flat/open/steep/pedally/tight/technical are your trails?

if you are only riding DH and shuttles, and actually want to go fast, look for a 36t minimum front, and 11-23 or 11-25 rear cassette.

pretty tight range. I would need some pedal power so I could bomb flat sections. I ride Diablo alot and the majority of the trails are on the flatter side. I would like to be able to bomb them. put the power down and get moving fast. There is some uphill, but I wont be doing XC climbs or commuter rides. There are some uphill sections between trails and for shuttles.

I ride a variety of trails, I will be racing this year so you can bet it will bet it will be technical. some trails i ride are flat, some are extremely steep,

 

[Bikael Molton]

I suggest 36 in front.

I have a 450 and run 38T w/ 11-28 on the rear, because I don't like the feel of the bike in the 11T high gear all the time. I would prefer to spend more time mid-cluster. I believe I break fewer chains and my drivetrain lasts longer from less use of 11T, as well.

The 28 in the rear is nice for traversing the peaks at Plattekill or fireroad climbs outside of bike parks.

Geared slightly high for Diablo, but it's one less thing to fiddle with when I go to places with actual vertical out West.

If I ever had to seriously climb the bike, I would buy a 36 cassette immediately.

 

[Carcinogen]

I would suggest at least 36T front also. Nothing like spinning out right before a jump...

 

[Downhillbiker23]

I would suggest at least 36T front also. Nothing like spinning out right before a jump...

Not sure how to take that

 

[Downhillbiker23]

I suggest 36 in front.

I have a 450 and run 38T w/ 11-28 on the rear, because I don't like the feel of the bike in the 11T high gear all the time. I would prefer to spend more time mid-cluster. I believe I break fewer chains and my drivetrain lasts longer from less use of 11T, as well.

The 28 in the rear is nice for traversing the peaks at Plattekill or fireroad climbs outside of bike parks.

Geared slightly high for Diablo, but it's one less thing to fiddle with when I go to places with actual vertical out West.

If I ever had to seriously climb the bike, I would buy a 36 cassette immediately.

But ya i wouldnt need anything for super climbs

just something to put the power down

 

[rockofullr]

Not sure how to take that

By spinning out he means reaching your max cadence and having no gears left to shift up into.

 

[illnotsick]

I would go 36 or 38 front and something like 11-26 rear. If you're not going to use it for climbing then there's no need for anything larger in the rear. 38t front will allow you to stay in the 15t range and save the 11t for when you're really charging down a fireroad and can get in big strokes. I stick with a 36 front because there are a lot of rocks where I ride and I rarely find myself having the room to crank a bunch in my highest ratio.

By spinning out before a jump he meant that you're in your highest gear range, but it isn't large enough to continue putting down power so you're just spinning the cranks. Good luck doing that with a 38t, if you do it must be a massive jump

 

[Downhillbiker23]

I would go 36 or 38 front and something like 11-26 rear. If you're not going to use it for climbing then there's no need for anything larger in the rear. 38t front will allow you to stay in the 15t range and save the 11t for when you're really charging down a fireroad and can get in big strokes. I stick with a 36 front because there are a lot of rocks where I ride and I rarely find myself having the room to crank a bunch in my highest ratio.

By spinning out before a jump he meant that you're in your highest gear range, but it isn't large enough to continue putting down power so you're just spinning the cranks. Good luck doing that with a 38t, if you do it must be a massive jump

Thanks the 36-38 idea sounds good to me.Thanks for the imput

 

[phycoref]

I run a 36 up front and a 11-26 in the rear and am pretty content with it. My local bike park has a bit of a trek across to most of the runs so having up to the 26 is normally enough for me, even when you are worn out at the end of the day. Plus with a 36 you can get away with a smaller guide up front (I run the SRS+ 32-36, so it keeps the size of the bash down a bit).

EDIT* Running 2011 X7 short cage derailleur

 

[Metal Dude]

36T - 11-26
Also want to consider matching the rear der. length with the proper cassette. Long cage derailleurs are designed to work with 12-30+ and on the steeper slope of the profile of such cassette. Mid cage for 11-28 ish stuff with med. slope cassette. And of course short cage with smaller ranged cassettes as mentioned. The performance in shifting quickly and smoothly are important to these matchups! When DH riding you want to shift and be able to pedal quickly! I have found a short or mid cage saint der. with a 11,12-25,26 works best.

 

[DirtyMike]

36T - 11-26
Also want to consider matching the rear der. length with the proper cassette. Long cage derailleurs are designed to work with 12-30+ and on the steeper slope of the profile of such cassette. Mid cage for 11-28 ish stuff with med. slope cassette. And of course short cage with smaller ranged cassettes as mentioned. The performance in shifting quickly and smoothly are important to these matchups! When DH riding you want to shift and be able to pedal quickly! I have found a short or mid cage saint der. with a 11,12-25,26 works best.

Not to be an ass, but that info is incorrect.

The cage length is determined by max capacity of your chain and gears, not the size of the gears in the back.

Currently I have a 12/34 on the rear of the blindside, with a 36 in the front<Only cassette I have right now, prefer an 11/28> and I run a shortcage saint. Its a matter of setting it up properly for the size of gears you have, now there are some mechs that will have a max gear size, but the body of the mech will determin the max tooth of your gearset.

Here is the rule of thumb, three in the front, long cage, two in the front, medium cage, single in the front short cage. If you want you can go and do the math to know exactly for sure which to use, but here in the DH world the only thing you really need to consider is if your bike has alot of growth when going through the travel....

You can take my bike install a long cage or a short cage, leave the chain the same length and all they will both shift the same when set up properly.

 

[www.amazon.com]

44 up front and 11-23......

 

[p-spec]

if you are only riding DH and shuttles, and actually want to go fast, look for a 36t minimum front, and 11-23 or 11-25 rear cassette.

wat he says
36X11-23 here

 

[norbar]

38T 11-21 rear here. The 21 sucks a bit for going between trails but it is doable and the range is good. 36T might be better but supposedly Legend pedals better with 38-40T

 

[d.tate]

44 up front and 11-23......

Must look something like this...



Seriously, though, I started the season with a 38 up front on my '11 Demo 8 and destroyed my chainguide (e.13 lg-1 36-40) the first weekend. I ran 36 the rest of the year with a Straitline silent guide and have had no problems. I think the new frames with lower bottom brackets make it much more difficult to run bigger front chainrings. I would love to try a 9 cog rear with a 34 up front.

 

[descente]

don't forget, that the TR450 is a single pivot and will probably pedal best and have the least amount of feed/kickback with a 38t (which is what transition recommends if i recall). i'd run a 38 front and whatever cassette you think will get you the range you need. I ran an 11-25 on my old bike and i could surprisingly pedal it up a lot of stuff and rarely ran out of gas in fast sections.

 

[toowacky]

What descente said, good advice. I looked back at the Sicklines tr450 review and they indicated 36-38t based on the pivot placement-- figure your chainring out and then determine the cassette.

 

[dante]

Not to be an ass, but that info is incorrect.

The cage length is determined by max capacity of your chain and gears, not the size of the gears in the back.

Uh, no offense but he was actually correct. The manufacturers all give a "max sprocket" rating for each of their derailleurs, and the max sprocket rating for Shimano Saint SS is 34 (through a "mode converter" that allows for a bigger rear cassette).

http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/mountain/new_saint.html

Most other RDs are limited by both the max cassette tooth as well as the total capacity (biggest minus smallest in the front plus biggest minus smallest in the back).

 

[canadmos]

I had a TR450 and the 36 tooth chain ring with an 11-28 cassette in the back that is came with worked wonders. I never ran out of gears and it was actually pretty easy to pedal around. Obviously climbing was a bit of a chore, bit it wasn't impossible. I even used the bike as an XC bike for about 3 weeks while my other bike was busted.

 

[DirtyMike]

Uh, no offense but he was actually correct. The manufacturers all give a "max sprocket" rating for each of their derailleurs, and the max sprocket rating for Shimano Saint SS is 34 (through a "mode converter" that allows for a bigger rear cassette).

http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/mountain/new_saint.html

Most other RDs are limited by both the max cassette tooth as well as the total capacity (biggest minus smallest in the front plus biggest minus smallest in the back).

No offense taken, but if you read through mine, you will see I said exactly what you said. As long as the mech body will handle the cassette, then the cage length is no longer what matters, nor is it the first thing to look at with the cassette. And yes I know about the "converter" for the saint SS, its not a converter, its just a little plate you remove to change the B screw adjustment to handle the 34. Most mechs will handle up to a 34 in the back, its the new 36's that really throw a wrench into the mix.

Bottom line though is, you dont match cage length with cassette, you match the mech rating, then cage length for total capacity.

 

[dante]

Uh, aside from the Saint RD, the rest of the rear derailleurs (that I'm aware of) have max cassette sizes for their medium and short-cage rear derailleurs due to the mech body not being able to handle the larger cassette size. So yes, if you unscrew the cage on a medium or short cage RD and put it on an SGS derailleur, it will work with the larger cassette.

To everyone else, just read manufacturer's specs before assuming that your short or medium cage will work with an XC-style cassette.

 

[demo 9]

I spin out anything smaller than a 38, and i currently run a 40, on my 2011 Demo. 100% in support of 40-11 as the highest gearing

 

[gemini2k]

Why does anyone run 23-11 on their DH bike? I mean, seriously, does gearing that tight really help you pedal that much on a DH bike? If pedaling is that important on the DH trails you ride...they are probably pretty lame DH trails. I don't even run gearing that tight on my road bike. Then again I use my road bike almost strictly for climbing. But still...

Also, do you really need a 40t over a 36T? Using realistic numbers, assuming a max cadence of around ~120 rpm, a 36 is gonna spin out at ~32mph. A 40t will spin out around 36. Does anyone really pedal at 36 mph? I don't know about you, but me and everyone I know is probably tucking at 30+ mph anyways.

P.S. I'm pretty biased since I run the same SS gearing (36-16) for everything from high speed resort trails to SUPER flat pedaly Santa Barbara trails.

 

[EVIL JN]

Personally i run 7spd 12-23 with a 36 front ring on my dh bike and have done so for the last three years. It has been really good, i dont have to double shift that often anymore and i can keep my mech further inboard to avoid rocks etc. I run it with 2T jumps between every shift besides the last two. It spins out on smother sections but those are seldom seen in my experience and on a beat up dh course i rather tuck at those speeds.

Maybe not for everyone but it sure works for me and it still gets me around the woods fairly good (but that could be more due to personal endurance).

 

[DirtyMike]

Uh, aside from the Saint RD, the rest of the rear derailleurs (that I'm aware of) have max cassette sizes for their medium and short-cage rear derailleurs due to the mech body not being able to handle the larger cassette size. So yes, if you unscrew the cage on a medium or short cage RD and put it on an SGS derailleur, it will work with the larger cassette.

To everyone else, just read manufacturer's specs before assuming that your short or medium cage will work with an XC-style cassette.

Still the bottom line is that cage length will not be decided by cassette alone. I dont know of any Mtn mechs that will not handle a 34T cassette, even short cages... Be it xtr, XO, xt, x9, Saint, SLX..... I am not talking swapping cages or anything like that.... Been around the block a few times on building and setting up bikes and cannot think of a time were running a short cage was EVER an issue with a 34t cassette.

Side note... cage length also has nothing to do with chain length... could also be why someone would think cage length would be a factor to think about with a 34t cassette.

Another side note.... I did not remove the "converter" on my saint Mech.... With it out the mech hit the frame. Still works absolutly fine

 

[HAB]

Why does anyone run 23-11 on their DH bike? I mean, seriously, does gearing that tight really help you pedal that much on a DH bike? If pedaling is that important on the DH trails you ride...they are probably pretty lame DH trails. I don't even run gearing that tight on my road bike. Then again I use my road bike almost strictly for climbing. But still...

Also, do you really need a 40t over a 36T? Using realistic numbers, assuming a max cadence of around ~120 rpm, a 36 is gonna spin out at ~32mph. A 40t will spin out around 36. Does anyone really pedal at 36 mph? I don't know about you, but me and everyone I know is probably tucking at 30+ mph anyways.

P.S. I'm pretty biased since I run the same SS gearing (36-16) for everything from high speed resort trails to SUPER flat pedaly Santa Barbara trails.

I run an 11-25, not because I need spacing that tight, but because I don't need a gearing range wider than that, and it's lighter. If someone made something like an 11-25 5 speed I'd run that. Sort of thought about doing it myself but honestly I've just been too damn lazy, plus with an 11t I'd have to run the whole thing on the outside of the freehub body which isn't ideal. Running a 37t ring, and I do use the 37-11 combo pretty often.

 

[marshalolson]

Still the bottom line is that cage length will not be decided by cassette alone. I dont know of any Mtn mechs that will not handle a 34T cassette, even short cages... Be it xtr, XO, xt, x9, Saint, SLX..... I am not talking swapping cages or anything like that.... Been around the block a few times on building and setting up bikes and cannot think of a time were running a short cage was EVER an issue with a 34t cassette.

Side note... cage length also has nothing to do with chain length... could also be why someone would think cage length would be a factor to think about with a 34t cassette.

Another side note.... I did not remove the "converter" on my saint Mech.... With it out the mech hit the frame. Still works absolutly fine

dura-ace/ultegra rear derailleurs while only fit a 32t cassette, for what its worth.

 

[marshalolson]

Why does anyone run 23-11 on their DH bike? I mean, seriously, does gearing that tight really help you pedal that much on a DH bike? If pedaling is that important on the DH trails you ride...they are probably pretty lame DH trails. I don't even run gearing that tight on my road bike. Then again I use my road bike almost strictly for climbing. But still...

Also, do you really need a 40t over a 36T? Using realistic numbers, assuming a max cadence of around ~120 rpm, a 36 is gonna spin out at ~32mph. A 40t will spin out around 36. Does anyone really pedal at 36 mph? I don't know about you, but me and everyone I know is probably tucking at 30+ mph anyways.

P.S. I'm pretty biased since I run the same SS gearing (36-16) for everything from high speed resort trails to SUPER flat pedaly Santa Barbara trails.

your gearing (36-16) is way tighter than (36- 11/23). just saying. why should someone run something wider than a (36- 11/23) if you can get away with a 36-16?. your 36-16 is the equivalent gearing to a 40-18 anyhow.

plenty of people have a max cadence of 80-100rpm. they need a bigger chainring than someone that can put power down while standing and pedaling 120rpm.

have you ever pedaled into a jump, knowing you need 3 pedal strokes, and just having your feet spin in the breeze, rather than putting down power?