[crashing_sux]

I see a lot of bikes out there (including mine) which have adjustable chainstay length but whenever I see people talking about chainstay lengths they always seem to prefer very short chainstays.

I'm thinking there must be some advantage to longer chainstays, otherwise you wouldn't bother to have adjustable chainstays. Currently I have my dropouts in the shortest position and I've been thinking about extending them a bit to see how it affects my bike.

The only difference I can think of right now is that pulling the rear wheel back would weight the front end a little more and help the front end stick better in turns, along with making the bike harder to manual/pull the front end up.

Has anyone else played with this and can you give me any tips?

 

[Kornphlake]

seems like longer chainstays would help the bike climb better too. Not that it really matters on a downhill bike.

 

[Toshi]

longer chainstays will give you marginally more travel with most suspension designs . also longer == more stable generally.

 

[Zark]

If you have very tight switchbacks in your area, leave them in the short position.

Longer stays add some stability to mach 3 terrain though, but generally a shorter stay makes the bike handle a little better.

 

[RhinofromWA]

longer chainstays will give you marginally more travel with most suspension designs . also longer == more stable generally.

Yep.

Allow adjustability if you run 24 or 26inch wheels or tires of different sizes.

If you want them short adjustablilty can allow you to fine tune it around tire/rim combos. Instead of designing around 3.0/26 wheels.

Stability is a big thing.....ride me Rotec. My head tube angle isn't all raked out...it doesn't need to be. Of course it doesn't hurt that my top tube is so dang long My bike is pretty darn stable. lol

 

[crashing_sux]

My main goal is to find a way to get my bike to corner better. I have been working on really pushing the limits of my cornering this year and I find when I get near the edge my front end washes out without any warning.

I'm running a big fat Comp 32 2.8 up front to get as much traction as possible and a 2.5 Maxxis Mobster in the rear hoping to balance things out so my front won't be the first to let go.

Still, regardless of what I try the front end lets go first, I've played with front tire pressures and aired the rear up way too high (trying to get less traction) but the front always lets go first. My Nucleon ST originally had longer dropouts which had the chainstays around 18" (V10 territory) but I'm now running the shorter Nucleon FR dropouts in the shortest position resulting in 17" chainstays and was wondering if I took too much weight off of the front of the bike by doing that.

It could just be my cornering technique but I have been trying various techniques and none of them have cured the fact that my front tire always lets go first. I know that ideally I could get both tires to let go at the same time (which I'm getting close to) but while I'm learning I would be a lot more comfortable with the rear end letting go first and then as I begin to handle that better start working towards those two wheeled drifts.

 

[dhmtbj]

My main goal is to find a way to get my bike to corner better. I have been working on really pushing the limits of my cornering this year and I find when I get near the edge my front end washes out without any warning.

I'm running a big fat Comp 32 2.8 up front to get as much traction as possible and a 2.5 Maxxis Mobster in the rear hoping to balance things out so my front won't be the first to let go.

Still, regardless of what I try the front end lets go first, I've played with front tire pressures and aired the rear up way too high (trying to get less traction) but the front always lets go first. My Nucleon ST originally had longer dropouts which had the chainstays around 18" (V10 territory) but I'm now running the shorter Nucleon FR dropouts in the shortest position resulting in 17" chainstays and was wondering if I took too much weight off of the front of the bike by doing that.

It could just be my cornering technique but I have been trying various techniques and none of them have cured the fact that my front tire always lets go first. I know that ideally I could get both tires to let go at the same time (which I'm getting close to) but while I'm learning I would be a lot more comfortable with the rear end letting go first and then as I begin to handle that better start working towards those two wheeled drifts.

what type of conditions are you riding that it tends to slip on? Are you on the brakes at all when you are cornering? and what kinds of techniques are you trying?

 

[crashing_sux]

what type of conditions are you riding that it tends to slip on? Are you on the brakes at all when you are cornering? and what kinds of techniques are you trying?

Whistler, bermed corners and flat corners. I've tried keeping my pedals level, putting the outside pedal down, leaning the bike more and my body less and leaning the bike less and my body more.

I've also experimented a bit with moving my body more forward or rearward in corners but can't get a good feel for it yet.

So far I'm having the best luck with outside pedal down and leaning the bike more but I'm always open to suggestions.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Whistler, bermed corners and flat corners. I've tried keeping my pedals level, putting the outside pedal down, leaning the bike more and my body less and leaning the bike less and my body more.

I've also experimented a bit with moving my body more forward or rearward in corners but can't get a good feel for it yet.

So far I'm having the best luck with outside pedal down and leaning the bike more but I'm always open to suggestions.

Front end washing out? Get over that front end....ride that fork. Sounds like you need to weight the front end. Have that chest up over the handlebars (not on them ) You will figure it out.

Front end washing out on banked bermed corners? are you sitting over the rear tire? I did that on a corner once and came out ina wheely.....damn near killed myself.

I think you are to far back. if your front end is washing out at speed and on banked corners...... You are riding a Dj bike so I don't know ho much a longer swingarm will help you.

Any pics of your bike handy? If not to help just to show off? lol

my at first DH race....mammoth mtn Kamakazi. Long extremely fast off camber kitty litter corner....weighting front end and even showing my moto roots: : (see front wheel leaving ground mid corner.

attached is last year in WA state...highspeed banked corner both my tires are rolled over and I am broadsliding. I am way back but soon brake for the last chute. The next is this year I am already exiting the corner from a outside foot down body inline with bike type bermed corner....I think. I am still leaned over some but have come out of the berm early to crank it down the straight-a-way.

 

[crashing_sux]

I am using the rear brake in corners sometimes. It's a habit I'm trying to break but it's a result of not having confidence in the front tire, I end up grabbing some rear brake to help the rear end brake loose before the front.

I have tried getting my weight forward more but haven't noticed a difference, maybe I need to do it even more?

Here is my bike, sans lowered crowns.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Longer chainstays make the bike more stable at speed, but I find that they tend to make a bike feel like it's understeering if they're too long.

 

[RhinofromWA]

I am using the rear brake in corners sometimes. It's a habit I'm trying to break but it's a result of not having confidence in the front tire, I end up grabbing some rear brake to help the rear end brake loose before the front.

I have tried getting my weight forward more but haven't noticed a difference, maybe I need to do it even more?

Here is my bike, sans lowered crowns.

Sounds like you might need to. Exagerate it at first (when it is safe to do so)

You have the lower crowns I guess from above comment. That can help. How tall are your bars? Do you ahve a set that is lower? Say if one is a 3" rise use a 1.5 or 2" rise. It should make getting forward easier.

Do as little breaking as possible durring the corner....it should be done before or after Breaking even withthe back in the corner can upset the balance and toss you and your bike in the dirt.

I have a Rotec DH (old school) and if I can turn it you should be able to turn your beast What did you ride before? Take some measurements and I will bring you back mine and we can compare. From memory:
Chainstay is like 18.75"
WB is like 48-49"
I don't have an angle finder.
my BB is abotu 15" high (to the center of the spindle.
I can measure the handlebars from teh ground but I have a boxxer with a tall crown....I don't know let me know in the next 30 minutes what you want me to measure and I will check it out for you. we can compare notes.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

I am using the rear brake in corners sometimes. It's a habit I'm trying to break but it's a result of not having confidence in the front tire, I end up grabbing some rear brake to help the rear end brake loose before the front.

I have tried getting my weight forward more but haven't noticed a difference, maybe I need to do it even more?

Here is my bike, sans lowered crowns.

In DIRT 43 (volume 2, number 9), on page 54/55 there's a great photo of Sam Hill demonstrating how to get your weight forward in corners. See if you can find a copy of it to have a look, maybe it could help you?

 

[xy9ine]

I am using the rear brake in corners sometimes. It's a habit I'm trying to break but it's a result of not having confidence in the front tire, I end up grabbing some rear brake to help the rear end brake loose before the front.

I have tried getting my weight forward more but haven't noticed a difference, maybe I need to do it even more?

Here is my bike, sans lowered crowns.

so YOU'RE the nucleon rider i see @ whistler all the time... nice bike!

 

[crashing_sux]

so YOU'RE the nucleon rider i see @ whistler all the time... nice bike!

Yep, I'm out all the time, next time you see me come up and say hi.

-Shane

 

[Jm_]

obviously the longer your chainstays, the more of a man you are.

 

[crashing_sux]

Sounds like you might need to. Exagerate it at first (when it is safe to do so)

You have the lower crowns I guess from above comment. That can help. How tall are your bars? Do you ahve a set that is lower? Say if one is a 3" rise use a 1.5 or 2" rise. It should make getting forward easier.

Do as little breaking as possible durring the corner....it should be done before or after Breaking even withthe back in the corner can upset the balance and toss you and your bike in the dirt.

I have a Rotec DH (old school) and if I can turn it you should be able to turn your beast What did you ride before? Take some measurements and I will bring you back mine and we can compare. From memory:
Chainstay is like 18.75"
WB is like 48-49"
I don't have an angle finder.
my BB is abotu 15" high (to the center of the spindle.
I can measure the handlebars from teh ground but I have a boxxer with a tall crown....I don't know let me know in the next 30 minutes what you want me to measure and I will check it out for you. we can compare notes.

My geometry is pretty run of the mill I think. 17" chainstay length, 14.75" BB height, 9" vertical rear wheel travel, and a 68 degree head angle.

 

[BMXman]

personally I preferred the longer stays...I ran them in the 18" position the whole time I owned the bike and never had any problems in the tightest turns...I also like to be over the center of my bike in turns instead of off the back or over the fork. With the axle in the longer position you can stay over the center of the bike. I think many different people corner in many different ways...you will find what works best for you......D

 

[563 740]

You could also try: shorter stem, less fork preload, more rear preload. All of those things help put more weight on the front end.

I went on a trail ride full of switchbacks once with way too much fork preload. The front end washed out in every single corner and I was complaining about what a crappy front tire I had. Later I realized that the tire wasn't sticking to the ground as the crazy high spring preload was making it skip all over the place. Something to check out on your setup.

 

[ChrisRobin]

I just went out to measure my setup just in case you wanted to compare:

14.5" chainstays using the short dropouts at their longest setting.
15" BB height.
44.5" wheelbase
Not sure about head angle...must be 67deg.

The bike feels awesome like that. I haven't had a lot of time on it this year but for cornering it feels pretty good so far. I might drop the BB height to 14.5"...we'll see. I think I'm staying somewhat centered on the bike in corners. You have a medium frame right?

 

[Ian F]

I'd say Rhino has said what needs to be said, but I'll add some perspective.

Yep - you really have to get your weight forward. At first it will seem un-natural. My old M-1 was low and slack, about a 66 degree HA, with a 14" BB (sub 13" at sag) and the stays in the shorter (16.75 I think) setting. Hopping and manualing that bike was a breeze. However, to get the bike to corner without losing speed took incredible amounts of commitment and practice. And I'd still fall back into old, bad habits if I lost concentration.

But when I got it right, it was like sex. :love:

Keep your elbows out, head up, and focus forward. If you can see your front tire EVER, you're in the wrong position. I used to lean my knee into the monocoque as well - seemed to help with getting weight forward, but still keeping it low.

Practice, practice, practice...

 

[thaflyinfatman]

I just went out to measure my setup just in case you wanted to compare:

14.5" chainstays using the short dropouts at their longest setting.
15" BB height.
44.5" wheelbase
Not sure about head angle...must be 67deg.

The bike feels awesome like that. I haven't had a lot of time on it this year but for cornering it feels pretty good so far. I might drop the BB height to 14.5"...we'll see. I think I'm staying somewhat centered on the bike in corners. You have a medium frame right?

14.5" stays? Dude, the shortest HARDTAIL frames are about 15.5"... you must have measured that wrong!

 

[ChrisRobin]

14.5" stays? Dude, the shortest HARDTAIL frames are about 15.5"... you must have measured that wrong!

Whoops!! 17.5" chainstays.