That meeting at Seabright Brewery was informational... but I didn't see a single person I recognized there. How sad.
You have all been demoted. -------->
You have all been demoted. -------->
Any of you guys show up last night?
- Thread starter Prettym1k3
- Start date
I'm seriously in doubt of even the local ranger's ability to fight through all the santa cruz special interest groups that are worried about errosion, rare plants, even rarer animals or just trying to protect the secracy of the marajuana forest growing in their back yard.
I think it's good that someone is giving it a try to push stuff through legal channels, but I don't have enough confidence in the process to bail out of work and drive the hour and a half round trip to talk to the rangers.
I could be totally wrong on this though, enlighten us Mike as to our chances.
I think it's good that someone is giving it a try to push stuff through legal channels, but I don't have enough confidence in the process to bail out of work and drive the hour and a half round trip to talk to the rangers.
I could be totally wrong on this though, enlighten us Mike as to our chances.
I never got an invite, or offered free beer for that matter.
The monthly meetings at at 7pm. Usually, as I'm told, at the SeaBright Brewery. Beer is served by the owner of the Brewery who is an avid mountain biker. They usually just ask for a buck or two to cover tip and tax.
As for what the meeting covered, here's the email I sent out to a few people this morning:
----------------------
Many of you know that as of February 1st, Rangers in the UCSC area (trails between Empire Grade and Highway 9, East of the UConn lot) have been passing out flyers. The flyers originally stated that as of Sunday, February 18th, the "Closed Trails" would be enforced and citations issued for anyone found mountain biking on said trails. That was a mistake. It is actually SUNDAY, February 15th. According to some MTBR research into the cost of tickets with the State of California the tickets can be upwards of $400.
There was an www.MBOSC.org meeting last night in Santa Cruz to discuss what to do. Multiple people showed up from MBOSC, along with many locals. But most importantly, Ranger Gary Brennan showed up, of his own free time, to discuss the matter. Here are some bullet points to give you an idea of what is happening, etc.:
-Believe it or not, the amount of rangers has, in fact, increased. Up until a few months ago, they had one full time ranger, and 1 part time/flex time ranger. They now have 5 full time rangers. They are in FULL FORCE now. This is the first time in 10-15 years they have been fully staffed.
-They are enforcing everything from drugs, alcohol, squatters, illegal fishing and, yes, mountain biking. Apparently meth and pot deals were going down very regularly near the main parking lot, and they are in an effort to do general "clean up" of the entire area.
-The cause of many of our woes is people dropping down onto Highway 9 in traffic. That single action is what has brought attention to the area. Not shuttling (although that is a problem with the local residents) and not trail/wildlife/plantlife damage (althought that's a main concern). Lagging, hanging out, and drinking beer draw lots of attention to what we do, and it doesn't help. And, of course, people getting hurt doesn't help us. They had two major injuries there in the past 2 months, and while that might now seem like a lot, it's enough to grab the rangers' attentions.
-Ranger Gary Brennan is a nice guy. If you ever run into him, thank him for meeting with the mountain bikers on February 9th at Seabright Brewery. He WANTS to see those trails open for us to ride, but it's his job to be the enforcement officer. He will be taking many of our complaints back to his superiors, so we'll see what happens after that. Ranger Brennan also knows the names of almost all of the trails (Z's, Magic Carpet, etc.). He's not stupid, and he knows what's going on. So watch yourself if you plan on breaking the rules and continuing to ride out there (I'm not recommending that, I'm just saying...)
-Many of the concerns regarding damage to the trails is not from people "dragging brake". It's actually from riding in bad weather (that seems to be the main concern). The secondary issue is people who are digging/raking new trails around fallen trees, etc., instead of cutting out the tree and continuing the trail as it aleady was.
-Between March and May both rangers and scientists will be out on the trails replacing signs that have been taken down by riders, and recording data on wildlife, trail damage, etc. The rangers know that the signs will probably be torn down, and that people will continue to ride there. But during that time frame, they will be hiking all of the trails, and replacing signs. Ranger Brennan mentioned nothing about replacing fencing (barbed wire, chain link, wood posts, etc.), but that's a possibility.
-Brennan mentioned that citations will be issused, but they will not be "going out and looking for mountain bikers". Basically, if they see you drop down onto Highway 9, or they see you cutting into the illegal trails from the fireroad, they'll stop you.
-Lastly, Brennan said that until you're digging, doing obvious damage, etc., they will probably perform a Field ID before issuing any citations. So, you may get one warning before getting a citation, or you may just get a $400 citation first time out.
MBOSC has been working on getting places in Castle Rock, Grey Whale, and Fall Creek open for almost 2 1/2 years, but the county simply won't even look at proposals because they don't believe that enough people want new trails to be opened. For instance, only about 30-40 people showed up last night at the MBOSC meeting, and that's the most they've had in a very, very long time. How sad!
If you want to help, the things you can do is show up to meetings like last night, and show up at City Council meetings to voice your opinion. Write letters and making phone calls does work. It just takes time. Instant results simply do not happen in the opening of new trails. But hard work does pay off.
And remember... the people who want those trails closed ALWAYS show up to meetings. ALWAYS.
As for what the meeting covered, here's the email I sent out to a few people this morning:
----------------------
Many of you know that as of February 1st, Rangers in the UCSC area (trails between Empire Grade and Highway 9, East of the UConn lot) have been passing out flyers. The flyers originally stated that as of Sunday, February 18th, the "Closed Trails" would be enforced and citations issued for anyone found mountain biking on said trails. That was a mistake. It is actually SUNDAY, February 15th. According to some MTBR research into the cost of tickets with the State of California the tickets can be upwards of $400.
There was an www.MBOSC.org meeting last night in Santa Cruz to discuss what to do. Multiple people showed up from MBOSC, along with many locals. But most importantly, Ranger Gary Brennan showed up, of his own free time, to discuss the matter. Here are some bullet points to give you an idea of what is happening, etc.:
-Believe it or not, the amount of rangers has, in fact, increased. Up until a few months ago, they had one full time ranger, and 1 part time/flex time ranger. They now have 5 full time rangers. They are in FULL FORCE now. This is the first time in 10-15 years they have been fully staffed.
-They are enforcing everything from drugs, alcohol, squatters, illegal fishing and, yes, mountain biking. Apparently meth and pot deals were going down very regularly near the main parking lot, and they are in an effort to do general "clean up" of the entire area.
-The cause of many of our woes is people dropping down onto Highway 9 in traffic. That single action is what has brought attention to the area. Not shuttling (although that is a problem with the local residents) and not trail/wildlife/plantlife damage (althought that's a main concern). Lagging, hanging out, and drinking beer draw lots of attention to what we do, and it doesn't help. And, of course, people getting hurt doesn't help us. They had two major injuries there in the past 2 months, and while that might now seem like a lot, it's enough to grab the rangers' attentions.
-Ranger Gary Brennan is a nice guy. If you ever run into him, thank him for meeting with the mountain bikers on February 9th at Seabright Brewery. He WANTS to see those trails open for us to ride, but it's his job to be the enforcement officer. He will be taking many of our complaints back to his superiors, so we'll see what happens after that. Ranger Brennan also knows the names of almost all of the trails (Z's, Magic Carpet, etc.). He's not stupid, and he knows what's going on. So watch yourself if you plan on breaking the rules and continuing to ride out there (I'm not recommending that, I'm just saying...)
-Many of the concerns regarding damage to the trails is not from people "dragging brake". It's actually from riding in bad weather (that seems to be the main concern). The secondary issue is people who are digging/raking new trails around fallen trees, etc., instead of cutting out the tree and continuing the trail as it aleady was.
-Between March and May both rangers and scientists will be out on the trails replacing signs that have been taken down by riders, and recording data on wildlife, trail damage, etc. The rangers know that the signs will probably be torn down, and that people will continue to ride there. But during that time frame, they will be hiking all of the trails, and replacing signs. Ranger Brennan mentioned nothing about replacing fencing (barbed wire, chain link, wood posts, etc.), but that's a possibility.
-Brennan mentioned that citations will be issused, but they will not be "going out and looking for mountain bikers". Basically, if they see you drop down onto Highway 9, or they see you cutting into the illegal trails from the fireroad, they'll stop you.
-Lastly, Brennan said that until you're digging, doing obvious damage, etc., they will probably perform a Field ID before issuing any citations. So, you may get one warning before getting a citation, or you may just get a $400 citation first time out.
MBOSC has been working on getting places in Castle Rock, Grey Whale, and Fall Creek open for almost 2 1/2 years, but the county simply won't even look at proposals because they don't believe that enough people want new trails to be opened. For instance, only about 30-40 people showed up last night at the MBOSC meeting, and that's the most they've had in a very, very long time. How sad!
If you want to help, the things you can do is show up to meetings like last night, and show up at City Council meetings to voice your opinion. Write letters and making phone calls does work. It just takes time. Instant results simply do not happen in the opening of new trails. But hard work does pay off.
And remember... the people who want those trails closed ALWAYS show up to meetings. ALWAYS.
good stuff to know.
what are the Castle Rock, Grey Whale and Fall Creek areas? Could there be fun DH type stuff built there if it gets legally opened? If so, that almost sounds like that's where we should concentrate our efforts and just try in general not to be a$$hats/visable out at campus.
what are the Castle Rock, Grey Whale and Fall Creek areas? Could there be fun DH type stuff built there if it gets legally opened? If so, that almost sounds like that's where we should concentrate our efforts and just try in general not to be a$$hats/visable out at campus.
I've never ridden Grey Whale, so I'm not too sure. I'm under the impression that Castle Rock is mostly XC/AM type stuff, but I could be wrong.
Fall Creek is an amazing trail that I used to ride about 3 years ago... and haven't ridden since. Hikers and Equestrians are VERY, VERY militant about those trails being ONLY for their purposes, and the last time I made an attempt to ride there, a lady pulled up, wrote my license plate down, and gave me SERIOUS attitude because, in her mind, I was the rider who a few weeks before almost got her daughter thrown off of a horse. Nevermind that horses are 1 ton animals with the mentality of a pissed off toddler. Whatever.
But yes, Fall Creek is AMAZING, and has some seriously fun stuff to it. So that would be fantastic to have Fall Creek open.
Is it a substitute for the UCSC trails? Not entirely. Picture a cross between Magic Carpet, some of the not-so-easy portions of Dead Campers, with some creek riding of Mailboxes. It's a lot of fun, and totally shuttle-able.
Fall Creek is an amazing trail that I used to ride about 3 years ago... and haven't ridden since. Hikers and Equestrians are VERY, VERY militant about those trails being ONLY for their purposes, and the last time I made an attempt to ride there, a lady pulled up, wrote my license plate down, and gave me SERIOUS attitude because, in her mind, I was the rider who a few weeks before almost got her daughter thrown off of a horse. Nevermind that horses are 1 ton animals with the mentality of a pissed off toddler. Whatever.
But yes, Fall Creek is AMAZING, and has some seriously fun stuff to it. So that would be fantastic to have Fall Creek open.
Is it a substitute for the UCSC trails? Not entirely. Picture a cross between Magic Carpet, some of the not-so-easy portions of Dead Campers, with some creek riding of Mailboxes. It's a lot of fun, and totally shuttle-able.
No I did not show up but I should have.My parents being in town is my only excuss.I have been to those meetings before though and me and Mandy have even gone on rides with Mark and his family and MBOCCC.Great group of people. I think we should hang up the DH bikes till summer and earn our rides, lets do some 10 plus mile rides or something for awhile.I have some really good 10 and 12 miles ride that are more all mt. than XC so they are not totally boring.
Putting in some extra miles sounds like a good time. I dunno about this whole "put your dh bike up for winter" deal though. There's still other place to ride other than campus, and don't forget about stuff like the fontana winter series or bootleg!
I cannot hang my DH bike up. It'll be here in about two weeks, and I'm racing CCCX, Sea Otter, and Northstar. But I'm all for earning some of my miles!
But I'm all for earning some of my miles!
No really , I mean it.Lets hang up the DH ,sell the fullface, pillage the women and rape the horses!Then we get bigger wheels for our rollerblades and hit Demo forest!Haha, all kidding aside, ok no hanging up the DH I just got carried away.Well then whos doing Demo with me this weekend if its not raining turtles and toads?
Heh, sorry about the dh bike rant. I just ordered a socom, so I'm a little touchy about the prospect of not riding it.
I can't ride this weekend though, Kelly and I are heading out to the Bootleg Canyon race
I can't ride this weekend though, Kelly and I are heading out to the Bootleg Canyon race
When will the SoCom be in? And when are you bringing it to Pacifica? 
If I'm lucky, it'll show up some time this week and I can build it up in time for boot leg. If not, I should have it by next week
Nice, you and Mike can break em in together.
thanks for the write up all the info is good to know
Thanks for the meeting report. There's definitely some good news in there that counters some of the BS passed around in other forums. From your summary, it sounds like shuttling is not the primary reason for the enforced closure. And potentially, there's room for bikers to share the trails, given some effort.
damon
damon
You sounded like an intelligent person for a while there buddy then you start broadcasting to the world about how great other illegal trails are in our area. Do us a favor and shut it! Also, you seem to be downplaying what the ranger told you in you account. Shuttling and DH riders/trails are the main reason they are cracking down. I have personally seen idiots of all ages blast out of the bottom of DC into 9 without looking. Every one of them was on a DH rig. When I got my ticket in Dec the ranger told me that was the primary reason for the crackdown. Please think before you type from now on buddy there are a lot more people that read this stuff than you think.
Throw your eggs
Hate to be the "egg thrower" here, but were you at the meeting? Did you hear anything that was said at the meeting by the ranger who is LEADING the crack down on mountain bikers? If so, feel free to speak up.You sounded like an intelligent person for a while there buddy then you start broadcasting to the world about how great other illegal trails are in our area. Do us a favor and shut it! Also, you seem to be downplaying what the ranger told you in you account. Shuttling and DH riders/trails are the main reason they are cracking down. I have personally seen idiots of all ages blast out of the bottom of DC into 9 without looking. Every one of them was on a DH rig. When I got my ticket in Dec the ranger told me that was the primary reason for the crackdown. Please think before you type from now on buddy there are a lot more people that read this stuff than you think.
Throw your eggs
The fact of the matter is "broadcasting" about illegal trails only matters when there is the goal of trying to keep them secret. It doesn't matter anymore. Rangers, riders, locals... they all know about the trails. There's nothing to hide any longer. The only difference would be if someone said, "I'm going to ride such-and-such trail". At that time, it becomes a problem. Plainly talking about them in an order to get them LEGAL and OPEN doesn't draw any more attention than what has already been drawn.
The intention of my post was to bring light to the fact that if people would stop pissing and moaning online, and take an active political part in opening new trails, then maybe we'd see these illegal trails that EVERYBODY knows about opened, and we can stop these silly internet arguments.
I sincerely doubt you know enough about me to insult my intelligence, so leave the attitude at home and grow up.
The way I see it, there are three types of people:
The "I'm better than you because I ride ONLY legal trails". The ones that sit online all day and tell other people they are idiots riding illegal trails.
The selfish folks. The ones that sit online all day and pretend that they're not going to ride the illegal trails anymore, and tell other people to stop riding said trails so they can have those trails all to themselves.
The advocates. The people who try to do right, get the word out about how to change things, and try their best to get help from other mountain bikers to charge laws and expand trail networks.
And yet people like you sit online, piss and moan about people who actively talk about illegal trails BECAUSE THEY WANT TO GET THEM OPEN... and typically end up doing absolutely nothing.
With advocacy comes publicity. That's how it works.
Lastly, the "who's at fault" is a he-said, she-said matter. You've "personally seen idiots of all ages blast out of the bottom of DC into 9 without looking". Good for you. I've seen more people gathering in 30-person groups on XC bikes riding around, blabbing, stopping every 5 minutes, sessioning jumps, blah blah blah, calling a LOT of attention to the illegal trails. Good for me. At the end of the day, anyone who refused to be secretive about it (shuttlers, talkers, people posting online when the goal was to keep the trails a SECRET) are all guilty. You, me, and anyone who's ever ridden there and even hinted to someone else that there were trails between Empire Grade and Highway 9... we're all guilty.
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Well put Mike!
I disagree with Mike. Broadcasting trails in a responsible forum can help with trail advocacy, but this is too open of a forum. Many of those on here are 15 (or the same mentality as one)year olds having all the time in the world to browse through threads and pick up on trails. The same 15 years olds are the ones who bomb highway 9 and would piss off anyone within their radius on a trails that shouldn't be coveted, but shouldn't be abused either. No need to bring on unwanted negative publicity.
Charlie
Charlie
It seems to me that most people would rather, instead of talking about it and trying to change the current situation, shut their mouths, and let all those beautiful trails go to waste. Truly, TRULY disheartening.
Yes, there are kids on Ridemonkey, MSDHW, Pinkbike... there are also kids on MTBR. Sometimes, kids even show up to meetings like the meeting we had on Monday with MBOSC. Does that mean every time a kid is around we shouldn't talk about it?
Give me a break. Threads like this keep kids informed that the trails need to remain hush-hush. Without threads like this, kids go blabbing their mouths to all their friends and every Tom, Dick and Harry. Not to mention that if one of the MAIN problems are those 15 year old kids (or those who act 15 years old) bombing onto Highway 9, then this is exactly the place that threads like this need to exist. To warm those 15 year olds about the dangers of what they're doing, as well as the high cost (ie. trail closure) of their childish ways.
But again, I digress. It doesn't matter. The trails are being closed, and enforced. And the fun reign we had over that part of UCSC is long gone.
Yes, there are kids on Ridemonkey, MSDHW, Pinkbike... there are also kids on MTBR. Sometimes, kids even show up to meetings like the meeting we had on Monday with MBOSC. Does that mean every time a kid is around we shouldn't talk about it?
Give me a break. Threads like this keep kids informed that the trails need to remain hush-hush. Without threads like this, kids go blabbing their mouths to all their friends and every Tom, Dick and Harry. Not to mention that if one of the MAIN problems are those 15 year old kids (or those who act 15 years old) bombing onto Highway 9, then this is exactly the place that threads like this need to exist. To warm those 15 year olds about the dangers of what they're doing, as well as the high cost (ie. trail closure) of their childish ways.
But again, I digress. It doesn't matter. The trails are being closed, and enforced. And the fun reign we had over that part of UCSC is long gone.
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A while ago I ran into some older gentlemen who failed to follow the common courtesy of trail riding/hiking. They were hiking/pushing up with their bikes in the middle of the trail while my friends and I were descending. The older gentlemen refused to move from the middle of the trail and in return my friends and I had to pull off the trail to avoid hitting them. We politely mentioned that the riders going down usually have the right away because of lots of reasons (speed, not being able to hear whats coming up on the trail, etc). The older gentlemen didn't take to kindly to out advice and actually tried to physically fight us. I know this doesn't seem related, but after a few more trips up and down the trails, I drove by the same guys sitting at one of the trail exit points that drop you onto 9, they were all drinking beers, eating sandwiches with the wrappers all over the ground near their trucks, etc.
So Charlie, don't put all the blame on the kids. Everyone is kind of at fault here...
So Charlie, don't put all the blame on the kids. Everyone is kind of at fault here...
Here here.
no offense, but the last thing santa cruz locals need after having UCSC get hot, is telling people where else they could potentially ride "if those places were legal" when those said places are illegal. Im aware you mentioned those areas are closed, but UCSC has also been closed for years and it hasn't stopped anyone from riding there or telling people to go ride there. I strongly doubt much percentage of UCSC riding is from Ridemonkey, but I guarantee plenty of new UCSC riders have been introduced by Ridemonkey or someone on Ridemonkey. Im not saying thats bad, Im not acting like I own the trails or something, far from it. But I do want to protect them from out of towners, who generally have less respect for somewhere they don't live. Everyone who has lived here for awhile, has seen the trails transform. I used to work out there 4 days a week, every week, for years. I would work for hours before I saw anybody. Now you can't go a few minutes without seeing someone else.
What I am trying to say, is we don't need people migrating to other less-patrolled areas in or around Santa Cruz that respectful locals are already riding illegally. Im speaking of one place in particular, but I highly enjoy being one of the only mountain bikers who knows about it, and I'd like it to stay that way since I can only force myself to be courteous and respectful to fellow trail users; I can't force others.
Maybe i am overreacting, but after reading some of the comments in the beginning of this thread, if I was a kid and I didnt know about some of those areas mentioned, I'd probably go out and try to ride them or ask others about them. And thats not what we need. We need things to cool down. Soquel Demonstration Forest and Nisene Marks have many legal mountain biking trails. Thats really the only alternatives that should be mentioned. Again, I know no one said "go out and ride this other illegal place, no one patrols there", but mentioning other illegal places to ride and hinting they are fun, only makes people want to check it out. And the last thing we want, is yet another place closed down.
PS. One final thing, and feel free to flame away, but I want UCSC to stay illegal. This is the only way that UCSC can absolve themselves from being sued for injury on the property. If its illegal to ride bicycles there, you can't sue worth ****, even if your child breaks his neck on a jump someone made. And in these days of wild out of control lawsuits and parents not respecting their childrens wishes (I can think of a few instances, like Calabasas?), the only way to guarantee us having this area around and open to the public for future generations is going to be with it being illegal. This is my personal opinion, but in an area like Santa Cruz where the hippy/baby boomer side far outweighs the mountain bikers, both in numbers, financial power, and lobbying power, we will be wasting effort to make these trails legal. Its also my opinion that this effort should be put into keeping already legal areas, for instance Nisene Marks, in good condition and promoting legalization of mountain biking in other state or county owned areas; specifically areas not directly owned or operated by the University. The last thing the University wants in these days of budget cuts, is to get sued.
Oh, (I cant seem to keep my mouth shut today), and I also feel that people finding out for themselves that they can get a $500 ticket for riding in UCSC, is a far better way to reduce numbers then to advertise to everyone that it is illegal now. Places being illegal to ride, has never once stopped anyone. I grew up riding illegal trails, its part of mountain biking. And the only way rangers are going to back off so we can get back out there and enjoy, is when numbers go down. More people who get tickets = less people who come back.
man I am a dick!
What I am trying to say, is we don't need people migrating to other less-patrolled areas in or around Santa Cruz that respectful locals are already riding illegally. Im speaking of one place in particular, but I highly enjoy being one of the only mountain bikers who knows about it, and I'd like it to stay that way since I can only force myself to be courteous and respectful to fellow trail users; I can't force others.
Maybe i am overreacting, but after reading some of the comments in the beginning of this thread, if I was a kid and I didnt know about some of those areas mentioned, I'd probably go out and try to ride them or ask others about them. And thats not what we need. We need things to cool down. Soquel Demonstration Forest and Nisene Marks have many legal mountain biking trails. Thats really the only alternatives that should be mentioned. Again, I know no one said "go out and ride this other illegal place, no one patrols there", but mentioning other illegal places to ride and hinting they are fun, only makes people want to check it out. And the last thing we want, is yet another place closed down.
PS. One final thing, and feel free to flame away, but I want UCSC to stay illegal. This is the only way that UCSC can absolve themselves from being sued for injury on the property. If its illegal to ride bicycles there, you can't sue worth ****, even if your child breaks his neck on a jump someone made. And in these days of wild out of control lawsuits and parents not respecting their childrens wishes (I can think of a few instances, like Calabasas?), the only way to guarantee us having this area around and open to the public for future generations is going to be with it being illegal. This is my personal opinion, but in an area like Santa Cruz where the hippy/baby boomer side far outweighs the mountain bikers, both in numbers, financial power, and lobbying power, we will be wasting effort to make these trails legal. Its also my opinion that this effort should be put into keeping already legal areas, for instance Nisene Marks, in good condition and promoting legalization of mountain biking in other state or county owned areas; specifically areas not directly owned or operated by the University. The last thing the University wants in these days of budget cuts, is to get sued.
Oh, (I cant seem to keep my mouth shut today), and I also feel that people finding out for themselves that they can get a $500 ticket for riding in UCSC, is a far better way to reduce numbers then to advertise to everyone that it is illegal now. Places being illegal to ride, has never once stopped anyone. I grew up riding illegal trails, its part of mountain biking. And the only way rangers are going to back off so we can get back out there and enjoy, is when numbers go down. More people who get tickets = less people who come back.
man I am a dick!
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