[fluff]

This one's right up Andyman's street, I reckon...

Here is a link to a theory that attributes the fourth gospel (John) to Mary Magdalene. Makes for a good read if you're interested in the origins of the Christian bible:

http://members.tripod.com/~Ramon_K_Jusino/magdalene.html

Even as a non-believer I am intrigued as the existence of Jesus is not in doubt, only his divinity, and many of his teachings are worth studying. Christian teachings of today may obscure some of Jesus original teachings and philosophy.

 

[MMike]

This one's right up Andyman's street, I reckon...

Here is a link to a theory that attributes the fourth gospel (John) to Mary Magdalene. Makes for a good read if you're interested in the origins of the Christian bible:

http://members.tripod.com/~Ramon_K_Jusino/magdalene.html

Even as a non-believer I am intrigued as the existence of Jesus is not in doubt, only his divinity, and many of his teachings are worth studying. Christian teachings of today may obscure some of Jesus original teachings and philosophy.

I wish i could remember who the stand up comedian was who did the bit on "what if Jesus was a lousy carpenter?"... Tries to build a table and all 4 legs are different lengths, chairs collapse...people afraid to complain because he's the son of god...frickin' hilarious.

Maybe I'll read the above article at lunch......

 

[mrbigisbudgood]

Christian teachings of today may obscure some of Jesus original teachings and philosophy.

If this statement is true, someone is going to the wrong church.

 

[reflux]

If this statement is true, someone is going to the wrong church.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm still amazed to this day that I never truly fell asleep in Catholic church as a kid.

 

[fluff]

If this statement is true, someone is going to the wrong church.

For example, the accepted version of the bible (I forget the correct term) has a tendency to cast women in a secondary role.

 

[Changleen]

If this statement is true, someone is going to the wrong church.

All Churches are the wrong Church.

 

[Casey]

Changleen,

All churches are the wrong church????? What an idiotic statement!!! As to Jesus' divinity, we all have to make up our minds for ourselves. That's called faith, and millions and millions of people have it, just like millions and millions of others don't. This whole Da Vinci Code thing is indeed intriguing, and I'm not averse to the idea that the hand of man may have tampered with the Word of God. We may never know. But that's the whole point!! That's why it's called "faith" and not "proof". You either embrace it or you don't. That's the beauty of free will.

People all over the world, in every country on every continent derive an incredible amount of comfort from their churches. For some it's the belief in a power greater than themselves. For others it's the companionship and support of the people they come to know there. When my daughter died last year and my wife almost did too, my church was there for me. They were there for me in terms of financial support, members/friends stuffing money in my pockets as I got ready to leave to follow the ambulance that was carrying what was left of my family to another medical center in an effort to save her life. Some went with me (some drove me!!). Some brought clothes and food to me while I camped out in an ICU waiting room for 6 days, unwilling to leave. Some cut my grass and tended to my house while I was gone. And ALL prayed for me and for my family. You can believe what you want about who or what they prayed to! The point is that they prayed, and that means they thought of me and my family, and they loved us, and that's important!!!!!!

I don't care what you believe. It's none of my business, and I could really care less if you die and rot in a box, or go to Heaven or Valhalla or Purgatory or Hell. I ain't Jesus, and I ain't gotta love you!! I've got questions myself about Who God is and isn't. I don't claim to be an overtly religious person. But your completely STUPID blanket characterization of all Churches as "wrong" shows me and anybody else reading this forum that you don't have two functional synapses communicating with each other in your entire cranium, and it makes it very easy to write off anything you've ever posted in this forum and anything you may ever post in the future as being not worth the waste of brain power it would take to read it!

Changleen, you're an effin' idiot.

(to everyone else, thanks for letting me get that off my chest!!)

 

[fluff]

This whole Da Vinci Code thing is indeed intriguing, and I'm not averse to the idea that the hand of man may have tampered with the Word of God. We may never know. But that's the whole point!! That's why it's called "faith" and not "proof". You either embrace it or you don't. That's the beauty of free will.

Leaving Changleen's inflammatory opinion aside, there is no doubt that, whether you consider it the word of God or not, man has tampered with the text in the Bible. Each time it is transcribed, translated or modernised it changes.

I have avoided the Da Vinci code like the plague, but I am intrigued by some geniune academic research into the origins of the New Testament (and indeed the rest of the Bible). I accept that Jesus existed and that he had some very valid points to make (which more people, including some nominal Christians would do well the think about), I do not believe him to have been divine but that is a moot point when considering the authorship of the Gospels.

 

[Casey]

Therein lies my own faith question: Has the text of the Bible been changed to the point that the true meaning of the original has been lost?? My wife (who survived, by the way!) is very devout in her beliefs. Her argument is that, as the divine Word of God, the Bible could not have been altered to lose its intended meaning, because God wouldn't allow that to happen, at least not in any lasting way. She believes that any text purported to be God's Word wouldn't endure if it had varied from His essential truths. Frankly, I'm not sure what I believe. I suppose I'm on my own little spiritual journey, trying to come to terms with some of my doubts and suspicions. But I do not doubt the existence of God. As I was raised in a Christian home, and taught from early childhood that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, I have trouble allowing myself to doubt that either (scared to??? maybe!).

 

[fluff]

Therein lies my own faith question: Has the text of the Bible been changed to the point that the true meaning of the original has been lost?? My wife (who survived, by the way!) is very devout in her beliefs. Her argument is that, as the divine Word of God, the Bible could not have been altered to lose its intended meaning, because God wouldn't allow that to happen, at least not in any lasting way. She believes that any text purported to be God's Word wouldn't endure if it had varied from His essential truths. Frankly, I'm not sure what I believe. I suppose I'm on my own little spiritual journey, trying to come to terms with some of my doubts and suspicions. But I do not doubt the existence of God. As I was raised in a Christian home, and taught from early childhood that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, I have trouble allowing myself to doubt that either (scared to??? maybe!).

I'm glad your wife survived and very sorry to hear that you lost your daughter. I am also glad that your faith and your church community helped you cope.

It is said that questioning faith helps to make it stronger, to do so is not a sign of weakness. Ultimately if you can look at as much information as possible and retain your faith it will be stronger and more resilient.

 

[dirtyj]

dude casy chill. I read a lot in the bible but I don't go to church. I believe in god and his son but I don't believe that u have to go to church to believe in him. Church is for weak minded people that need comfort to help them from hard times (quote)(For some it's the belief in a power greater than themselves. For others it's the companionship and support of the people they come to know there). There is to many peps going to church that think they are taken care of because they spend and hour listing to some priest speaking his own interpretation of the BOOK. I think to many people use the church as a crutch. I know of a hand full of people that couldn't tell u squat about the BOOK and they go to church every sunday, so what's up with that. These guys think its all good and that there sins are taken care of because they spend and hour in church, and then preach to others when they don't even know. I think its so funny to listen to someone that thinks he knows about the bigbook, but really only goes to church and never reads a page in the BOOK. It makes me sick that people can't take the time to even try to know what happened back then. O well there lose.


Changleen, you're an effin' idiot.

It doesn't look like u learned anything in church. For one why would u say that. This is someone's opinion. U should respect that and if anything lead him in the right direction. Calling him and idiot makes u the ignorant one.

 

[dirtyj]

o and one more thing. do u know what the bible is saying. U have the KingJames version and the international version. I read both and interpret both two different ways, So all in all do we really know what it is saying.

 

[dirtyj]

This one's right up Andyman's street, I reckon...

Here is a link to a theory that attributes the fourth gospel (John) to Mary Magdalene. Makes for a good read if you're interested in the origins of the Christian bible:

http://members.tripod.com/~Ramon_K_Jusino/magdalene.html

Even as a non-believer I am intrigued as the existence of Jesus is not in doubt, only his divinity, and many of his teachings are worth studying. Christian teachings of today may obscure some of Jesus original teachings and philosophy.

good stuff

 

[Casey]

"Changleen, you're an effin' idiot.

It doesn't look like u learned anything in church. For one why would u say that. This is someone's opinion. U should respect that and if anything lead him in the right direction. Calling him and idiot makes u the ignorant one."




I didn't say I learned anything in Church. I said my wife did!!!!!

 

[Casey]

And saying Church is for weak-minded people is like saying hospitals are for people not tough enough to take it!! You make all these big blanket statements about people and what they do or do not know, and what they do and do not get out of church when you don't even go yourself??? There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY you can know crap about what goes on in a Church if you don't go yourself. You can't speak for them!!!!

And by the way, most (no, I think ALL) of the people who attend my Church can spell!!

 

[Casey]

Okay, Okay......that last part about people I go to church with knowing how to spell was flaming, and I apologize for it.

It's true....but I still apologize. (I'm such a bastard sometimes!! lol)

 

[Andyman_1970]

This one's right up Andyman's street, I reckon...

Here is a link to a theory that attributes the fourth gospel (John) to Mary Magdalene. Makes for a good read if you're interested in the origins of the Christian bible:

http://members.tripod.com/~Ramon_K_Jusino/magdalene.html

Even as a non-believer I am intrigued as the existence of Jesus is not in doubt, only his divinity, and many of his teachings are worth studying. Christian teachings of today may obscure some of Jesus original teachings and philosophy.

Hey, a thread just for me..................aaaaaaaawwwwwwwww you shoudn't have...........LOL

I'll read that at lunch today.

There's already some juicy comments regarding church I'll address also.

I've thought about starting a thread where folks would ask me questions - not stupid ones like "can God make a rock so big He can't lift it" - but like real probing questions like "why did Jesus do this" or "what's up with all the rules and regulations in the OT".............genuine stuff like that.

Anyway..............

 

[Andyman_1970]

dude casy chill. I read a lot in the bible but I don't go to church. I believe in god and his son but I don't believe that u have to go to church to believe in him.

True, church attendance/membership has no bearing on issues like Salvation or belief.

Church is for weak minded people that need comfort to help them from hard times (quote)(For some it's the belief in a power greater than themselves. For others it's the companionship and support of the people they come to know there).

I’ll disagree with your “weak minded” comment. First, church is not a building with a specific sign in front of it, and it’s not Sunday morning, Sunday night, or Wednesday night. Those are the gatherings of the church but not the church. Church is a group of people, followers of The Way per the book of Acts, who live in tight community with each other. There are about 45 instances of the phrase “one another” (Greek is alelone) – all these passages describe what this community are suppose to do for one another “bear one another burdens” “encourage one another”………stuff like that.

Also for the Jesus movement in the Scriptures, weak is the “new” strong.

There is to many peps going to church that think they are taken care of because they spend and hour listing to some priest speaking his own interpretation of the BOOK. I think to many people use the church as a crutch. I know of a hand full of people that couldn't tell u squat about the BOOK and they go to church every sunday, so what's up with that. These guys think its all good and that there sins are taken care of because they spend and hour in church, and then preach to others when they don't even know. I think its so funny to listen to someone that thinks he knows about the bigbook, but really only goes to church and never reads a page in the BOOK. It makes me sick that people can't take the time to even try to know what happened back then. O well there lose.

I used to be like that, until I figured out that not only Jesus taught us to be critical thinkers but Paul goes as far to say “test everything”.

 

[dirtyj]

I’ll disagree with your “weak minded” comment. First, church is not a building with a specific sign in front of it, and it’s not Sunday morning, Sunday night, or Wednesday night. Those are the gatherings of the church but not the church. Church is a group of people, followers of The Way per the book of Acts, who live in tight community with each other. There are about 45 instances of the phrase “one another” (Greek is alelone) – all these passages describe what this community are suppose to do for one another “bear one another burdens” “encourage one another”………stuff like that.

Also for the Jesus movement in the Scriptures, weak is the “new” strong.



I used to be like that, until I figured out that not only Jesus taught us to be critical thinkers but Paul goes as far to say “test everything”.[/QUOTE]

good stuff. your right weak is a little strong. I some times forget the benefits of going to church, and u r right it does form a mutual bond between everyone in the congregation. My point is that there is too many people that say there are Christians that attend church that don't know anything about the book, but clam that they are saved.

for my spelling I don't take it as an insult, I do need to freshen up on my grammar. I deal with numbers all day. I'm also really short if u want to make fun of that too. What ever helps u get thought the day. If calling someone stupid, or telling someone that they can't spell helps u get through the day then go for it.

 

[Casey]

Well said, and I deserve it. But it's the equivalent of you calling me and everybody else who attends church "weak minded." That just really ticked me off.

 

[Casey]

Oh yeah...and I suck at math, so you'd have me there too.

 

[dirtyj]

Well said, and I deserve it. But it's the equivalent of you calling me and everybody else who attends church "weak minded." That just really ticked me off.

SORRY weak minded is a strong word to use to describe a small majority of Christians. There is a lot of strong Christians out there who do help the unfortunate Christians.

 

[Chutney]

I dont have much to add, but I have to say this is the most appologetic religion thread I have ever read.

I'm kinda sad actually - start flaming already!

I am not religious, but I live with many who are. I can see how it really can be a great thing, as it has definitely benefitted family members and friends of mine in times of trouble. I have read the bible - several years ago - and try to live my life based on its ideals, but I wouldn't say that I am religious. I see too many problems with what religion becomes. I see the blatant misinformation, the us against them mentality it creates, but most of all I cant deal with taking something that someone else tells me for granted with out some accountability.

I'm glad to hear of another person who benefits from religion, but I cant help but feel that on a global scale religion is doing humanity a grave injustice.

As for the actual subject of this thread, I havent read it yet.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I dont have much to add, but I have to say this is the most appologetic religion thread I have ever read.

I'm kinda sad actually - start flaming already!

I'm glad this is a civil thread, I know flaming is more exciting to read but what does it accomplish?

I'm totally down with the respectful free exchange of ideas.

I see too many problems with what religion becomes. I see the blatant misinformation, the us against them mentality it creates, but most of all I cant deal with taking something that someone else tells me for granted with out some accountability.

To which I would argue, Jesus didn't come to start a new religion, He came to give us life abundantly (not exclusivly eternal life as some might think) - He came to teach us the best way (i.e. followers of The Way) to live, not just "how to get into heaven". Unfortunatly far too many Christians identify themselves as such because of what they believe rather than how they live - which is the direct opposite of what is in the New Testament.

The God of the Bible is not a God of religiosity, or religions, He's a God love, compasssion, mercy and truth - not of rules and regulations.

I'm glad to hear of another person who benefits from religion, but I cant help but feel that on a global scale religion is doing humanity a grave injustice.

Religion as man has "tweaked" it yes, but the point of the Bible is not religion, it's being connected with everything that is right and good and true - not saying the right words at the right time, or saying the right prayer, or giving the right amount of money, or being seen in the right place by the right people.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I’ll try to as systematically as I can (here at work) address some of the major points of the article cited in the OP (at least what the author cites from the Gospel of John):

(1:35-40) This passage refers to "another disciple" who heard John the Baptist and followed Jesus along with Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter. Even though this passage does not specifically refer to the disciple as being loved by Jesus, Brown argues that this passage is a reference to the Beloved Disciple.

Problem: the author defines Mary as being demon possessed, John the Baptist’s teachings are not something someone who is possessed is likely to want to seek out.

(18:15-16) After the arrest of Jesus, the other disciple is allowed to enter the courtyard of the high priest with him. Peter, on the other hand, was not allowed in at first. Peter was let in only after the other disciple, who was known to the high priest, spoke to the gatekeeper. The other disciple is not explicitly referred to as the Beloved Disciple.

Problem: women were not allowed in the courtyard of the High priest due to ritual purity concerns.

(19:25-27) The Beloved Disciple is at the foot of the Cross along with the mother of Jesus, and other women including Mary Magdalene. Jesus tells the Beloved Disciple to take care of his mother. The disciple is said to have taken the mother of Jesus into his home.

Problem: Jesus says “woman here is your son” the Greek there is uihos, which surprisingly means “son”……….LOL Also in the 1st century in Judea, rarely would a woman be put in charge of a family if a suitable male could be found.

(21:7) In this passage, several of the disciples are out fishing after the Resurrection of Christ. The Beloved Disciple is the first to notice that the man who was speaking to them was Jesus. The disciple says to Peter, "It is the Lord!"

Problem: although Mary is thought to have been “loaded” financially, she was not a fisherman – John of Zebedee and Peter were however fishermen by trade.


Interestingly enough the author cites no Hebrew sources, his external evidence is based mainly on Gnostic writings which are questionable in their accuracy at best and seriously flawed theologically (in relation to Judaism) at their worst - noting that early Christianity was “merely” a sect of Judaism (a parallel to rabbinic Judaism that started about the same time).

This said, I do think Mary was a huge figure in the birth of the early church, and without a doubt a disciple of Jesus. I believe for far too long the church (being male oriented throughout history) has ignored and marginalized women and their role for the sake of power.

Anyway, that’s my shoot from the hip take on that article…………………..

 

[Ciaran]

Changleen, you're an effin' idiot.

Try not to let Changleen get your panties into too much of a bunch. He loves bashing religion. Though you calling him an idiot is just as bad. Be like the "thief in the night" and convert him so subtly that he doesn't know he's being converted.
Me? I am a follower of Jesus Christ and a recovering catholic.

 

[Chutney]

I'm glad this is a civil thread, I know flaming is more exciting to read but what does it accomplish?

I'm totally down with the respectful free exchange of ideas.

Screw that! I hate respecful exchanges of ideas!!11!!1

shoulda put in a smilie - it just caught me off guard that there were apologies in a thread about religion, so I decided to throw a joke out there.

To which I would argue, Jesus didn't come to start a new religion, He came to give us life abundantly (not exclusivly eternal life as some might think) - He came to teach us the best way (i.e. followers of The Way) to live, not just "how to get into heaven". Unfortunatly far too many Christians identify themselves as such because of what they believe rather than how they live - which is the direct opposite of what is in the New Testament.

The God of the Bible is not a God of religiosity, or religions, He's a God love, compasssion, mercy and truth - not of rules and regulations.

Religion as man has "tweaked" it yes, but the point of the Bible is not religion, it's being connected with everything that is right and good and true - not saying the right words at the right time, or saying the right prayer, or giving the right amount of money, or being seen in the right place by the right people.

I agree - my real beef isnt with jesus or the bible, its with modern religion - well not even necesarily religion, but how it is used to achieve ends that are contradictory to what the religion actually stands for.

I would be a christian, but the whole creationism and gods plan thing is more then I can swallow. I guess if you define christianity as basing your life on Christs ideals (as you say - Truth, Love, Compassion), then I am trying to be christian. However, is the Bible always" right good and true" to me? Does the bible line up with everything I believe in? No, but the idea of seeking what is right and true for yourself is at the core of what jesus taught (from what I remember of sunday school). That is the key element that is gone from modern religion today, in my opinion of course.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I agree - my real beef isnt with jesus or the bible, its with modern religion - well not even necesarily religion, but how it is used to achieve ends that are contradictory to what the religion actually stands for.

The crazy thing is I don't know how many times I've heard from any number of pulpits that "this generation" is just spiritually "deaf". The funny thing is, MTV constantly polls their demographic, they found out that toping out the list of things this generation is insterested is is spirituality. So that whole "spiritually deaf" things is just 10 pounds in a 5 pound bag.

IMO this generation can't stand how Christianity has been packaged (1-800- BIG-HAIR) and for the most part I totally agree with them. How did the best way to live become "lame"..........by and large because of a very vocal minority that has ended up being the mouth piece for the entire faith.

I would be a christian, but the whole creationism and gods plan thing is more then I can swallow.

I'm not going uncork that stuff today that's for sure................but I see where your coming from. By and large Christianity (esspecially fundamentalism) appears to the outsider as someone would need to "check their brain at the door" to participate. My mission is how do I explore Jesus and His world in intellectual credible ways. Personally, I think most "fundies" are afraid of history, or cultural context because they might find something that would cause them to question their faith.............which is cool - I think the unexamined faith is not really a faith at all...........plus Paul tells us to "test everything". Personally I'm confident enough in my faith and the Scritpures not to be scared of history.

I guess if you define christianity as basing your life on Christs ideals (as you say - Truth, Love, Compassion), then I am trying to be christian. However, is the Bible always" right good and true" to me? Does the bible line up with everything I believe in? No, but the idea of seeking what is right and true for yourself is at the core of what jesus taught (from what I remember of sunday school). That is the key element that is gone from modern religion today, in my opinion of course.

He did teach that being a disciple is a holistic endevor in regards to how a person lives out what means to be a disciple. Remember Jesus was an Easter teacher.............

 

[DRB]

The crazy thing is I don't know how many times I've heard from any number of pulpits that "this generation" is just spiritually "deaf". The funny thing is, MTV constantly polls their demographic, they found out that toping out the list of things this generation is insterested is is spirituality. So that whole "spiritually deaf" things is just 10 pounds in a 5 pound bag.

IMO this generation can't stand how Christianity has been packaged (1-800- BIG-HAIR) and for the most part I totally agree with them. How did the best way to live become "lame"..........by and large because of a very vocal minority that has ended up being the mouth piece for the entire faith.
...

Andyman you continue to impress me with the depth and width of your knowledge and thoughts on christianity,religion and matters of faith.

Its funny that you mention 1-800-Big-Hair. I'm from Charlotte born and raised. While I wasn't a member of PTL (close to the orginial of the big hair churches) when I was a kid it certainly was something that we all saw and were aware of around town. Even today the church that my wife is a member of (and that I split time at with my Mom's Episcopal church) is the same property that PTL was orginially on. I pass by the big PTL property to get to some local trails. And to some extent it did have some affect on me. As we got to see the whole disaster play (trials, divorces, adultery) out right in front of us on a daily basis.

But after awhile I realized that the church I went to as a kid wasn't like that, the church that sponsored my boy scout troop wasn't like that shoot pretty much every church I ever went to wasn't like that. Using your phrase 10lbs in a 5lb bag. And that's the real shame that folks so easily allow themselves to let the minority or should I say extremists define the majority.

This is rambiling but.....

 

[Andyman_1970]

Andyman you continue to impress me with the depth and width of your knowledge and thoughts on christianity,religion and matters of faith......

Thanks for the props, seriously, it's an encouragement to me.

But seriously, I've been toying with the idea of haveing a standing thread on here about stuff like that - in a non confrontational way of course...........who knows..............

And that's the real shame that folks so easily allow themselves to let the minority or should I say extremists define the majority.

It really is sad, and a wall I find myself constantly bumping up against........

 

[Changleen]

Are any of you wearing Sandles right now?

 

[fluff]

Are any of you wearing Sandles right now?

What are Sandles?

Or do you mean sandals?

Are you and the montashu related? I fink we shuld bee tolled...

 

[lovebunny]

well i think what alot of people who criticize christians and the like fail to reccognize is that even if jesus wasnt the son of god he sure has made the world a better place and had a positive effect on soo soo many people. i personally dont let changleens comments offend me because i know hes an asshole and all he does is sit in the political forum and talk crap. who knows if he actually bikes?

 

[BuddhaRoadkill]

I've thought about starting a thread where folks would ask me questions - not stupid ones like "can God make a rock so big He can't lift it" - but like real probing questions like "why did Jesus do this" or "what's up with all the rules and regulations in the OT".............genuine stuff like that.

How about a rock so small he can't see it? [Funny guy, no?]

I like the idea. Every now and then I'll run across some religious matter in my daily life and not have a clue about it. I can pop the matter into google but, like all things religious, the interpretations that come back are night and day. Having someone who I've already come to respect provide insight would be kinda cool. If anyone else had suggested this I would have stopped them in their tracks with accusations or preaching - but you manage to keep the conversation historical and academic. This approach would be key to such a thread. Sticky maybe, as it would probably wouldn't see daily action. Hmmm.
It would be cool if we had rational reps of other faiths as well, but I haven't seen any thus far. [Hmmm, can one use rational and faith in the same sentence?]

Great, now I forgot the question I had.

 

[Andyman_1970]

How about a rock so small he can't see it? [Funny guy, no?]

I like the idea. Every now and then I'll run across some religious matter in my daily life and not have a clue about it. I can pop the matter into google but, like all things religious, the interpretations that come back are night and day. Having someone who I've already come to respect provide insight would be kinda cool. If anyone else had suggested this I would have stopped them in their tracks with accusations or preaching - but you manage to keep the conversation historical and academic. This approach would be key to such a thread. Sticky maybe, as it would probably wouldn't see daily action. Hmmm.
It would be cool if we had rational reps of other faiths as well, but I haven't seen any thus far. [Hmmm, can one use rational and faith in the same sentence?]

Great, now I forgot the question I had.

First, thanks for the props.

Second, I welcome the idea of people from other faiths providing their points of view.

Third.........are you listening Mods???? What do you guys think?

 

[Changleen]

well i think what alot of people who criticize christians and the like fail to reccognize is that even if jesus wasnt the son of god he sure has made the world a better place and had a positive effect on soo soo many people.

BWAHAHAHAHA Have you ever opened a history book? Apparantly not...

i personally dont let changleens comments offend me because i know hes an asshole

Did god tell you? Or am I an asshole purely because of my opinion on religion?

and all he does is sit in the political forum and talk crap. who knows if he actually bikes?

No, I don't bike ever. All I do is sit on the Political forum and be an asshole to stupid ignorant shortsighted 'christians'.

 

[Silver]

well i think what alot of people who criticize christians and the like fail to reccognize is that even if jesus wasnt the son of god he sure has made the world a better place and had a positive effect on soo soo many people. i personally dont let changleens comments offend me because i know hes an asshole and all he does is sit in the political forum and talk crap. who knows if he actually bikes?

Says the man with an avatar with two girls kissing in a non-Jesus approved fashion...

 

[fluff]

BWAHAHAHAHA Have you ever opened a history book? Apparantly not...

You might care to expand on that one, if your are contending that Jesus has had a negative effect on people you'd better build an argument rather than trot out trite comments.

Did god tell you? Or am I an asshole purely because of my opinion on religion?

Actually in this case you are being an asshole because you are simply being abusive. If you have a point to make, make it and quit the silly comments.

And I don't give a rat's arse who started it.

 

[Casey]

Show me, in ANY history book, where Jesus did ANYthing that caused men to be inhumane to other men (or women, for that matter!): where He started a war, created strife or wreaked havoc on anybody. Show me where he told anyone to rob, steal, or kill, or to rape or pillage anything or anybody! Idiot!!!!

And Silver, only the severely short-sighted and closed-minded would take an avatar placed on a forum by a human and use it as an excuse to defame Jesus.

 

[dirtyj]

DNo, I don't bike ever. All I do is sit on the Political forum and be an asshole to stupid ignorant shortsighted 'christians'.

wow dude what did they do to u. You act like there out to get u. I don't understand some peoples train of thought, but its your opinion. O and to tell u the truth my uncle is a nuclear science at sandia labs in Albuquerque that would probably disagree with your ignorant shortsighted views on christians.

stupid and ignorant is a redundant statement, but someone that is ignorant wouldn't know that.

and thats ok to be an ashole but know what the funk your talking about.