[Ian Collins]

Anyone know how to bleed for a shorter throw on the models without contact adjust?? The throw on my code R is a little long.. I haven't tried it but maybe if i shave down the bleed block a bit??? Anyone have any better ideas? I searched and didn't find anything in the archives on the elixir R's(essentially the exact same lever)

Thanks

 

[William42]

I am also interested in hearing ideas

 

[Racebike]

A mate of mine has a good setup:

Two zip ties, one runs around the base of the lever and the handlebar, the second you secure the first one with to the reservoir. So they form a "T" so to speak.

Works really well!

 

[Ian Collins]

Ummmm. Any solutions not involving zip ties??

 

[Routier07]

This is how I have done it on a couple bikes..

1-Unscrew the caliper off the bike
2-Pull on the lever slowly until you see the pads have a little less space then they have now.
3-Screw the caliper back on to the bike, align so the disc isn't rubbing.. Might need to straighten the rotor if its warped.
4-Now, go to the master cylinder and bleed in some fluid. You can go even farther to guarantee a good working brake... Zip tie the lever to the bar overnight, Hook up a syringe full of DOT fluid and suck out the air while tapping lightly on the brake line and master cylinder, once you sucked out the air fill it back up with the fluid that's in the syringe... Take the syringe off, close the system.
5-See if its to your liking.
6-Drink beer

This should give you a shorter throw... I used these steps today to get a set of Elixir Rs running good.

 

[Ian Collins]

This is how I have done it on a couple bikes..

1-Unscrew the caliper off the bike
2-Pull on the lever slowly until you see the pads have a little less space then they have now.
3-Screw the caliper back on to the bike, align so the disc isn't rubbing.. Might need to straighten the rotor if its warped.
4-Now, go to the master cylinder and bleed in some fluid. You can go even farther to guarantee a good working brake... Zip tie the lever to the bar overnight, Hook up a syringe full of DOT fluid and suck out the air while tapping lightly on the brake line and master cylinder, once you sucked out the air fill it back up with the fluid that's in the syringe... Take the syringe off, close the system.
5-See if its to your liking.
6-Drink beer

This should give you a shorter throw... I used these steps today to get a set of Elixir Rs running good.

I like where your heads at...and it may work pretty well for elixirs calipers but i tried it a bit with the codes, but since there are 4 different pistons, usually just one comes out a bit, or at least one comes out drastically more than the others....on elixirs there are just two pistons so you can have one come out more, then balance and align it on the bike....

 

[Routier07]

I like where your heads at...and it may work pretty well for elixirs calipers but i tried it a bit with the codes, but since there are 4 different pistons, usually just one comes out a bit, or at least one comes out drastically more than the others....on elixirs there are just two pistons so you can have one come out more, then balance and align it on the bike....

You thought of something I completely forgot about... Im guessing it would take abit of time getting your brakes to work 100% like you want. Personally, I would take the caliper off the bike and kind of take my time and eye ball it.. I know it sounds retarded, I like to mess around with that stuff quite abit.

Cheers

 

[zdubyadubya]

run a normal bleed, except instead of using a bleed block, use a set of old worn out pads and some business cards. Put the worn out pads in place against the pistons and then slide business cards in between to desired thickness. Then bleed as normal. Its basically just setting a new "zero" point. Then, when you throw fresh pads in, the throw is very short. Problems only arise if you have a warped rotor (and with avid, that is a high possibility ).

But yeah, just like the guy said above, run a full bleed and then push the pads in a little and then bleed again.

 

[denjen]

run a normal bleed, except instead of using a bleed block, use a set of old worn out pads and some business cards. Put the worn out pads in place against the pistons and then slide business cards in between to desired thickness. Then bleed as normal. Its basically just setting a new "zero" point. Then, when you throw fresh pads in, the throw is very short. Problems only arise if you have a warped rotor (and with avid, that is a high possibility ).

But yeah, just like the guy said above, run a full bleed and then push the pads in a little and then bleed again.

+1 on this.

You can also just reset the pads and dial on the lever. After you reset the pads you should be able to dial your lever into where you like it. If this doesnt get you where you want, reset everything again and turn the dial a little further. It may take a couple times to figure out where ther dial needs to start.

 

[big-ted]

I don't understand how any of these methods work. Surely, all you're doing is effectively over-filling the master cylinder? Doesn't this cause problems once the brake heats up? And once the pads wear, doesn't the open system just compensate, putting you right back where you started?

 

[Ian Collins]

run a normal bleed, except instead of using a bleed block, use a set of old worn out pads and some business cards. Put the worn out pads in place against the pistons and then slide business cards in between to desired thickness. Then bleed as normal. Its basically just setting a new "zero" point. Then, when you throw fresh pads in, the throw is very short. Problems only arise if you have a warped rotor (and with avid, that is a high possibility ).

But yeah, just like the guy said above, run a full bleed and then push the pads in a little and then bleed again.

i was thinking about that, but i haven't fried any pads yet, the brakes are basically new....i used to do that with my old school hayes brakes back in the day....

i'll probably just shave the bleed block down and try that....

 

[zdubyadubya]

I don't understand how any of these methods work. Surely, all your doing is effectively over-filling the master cylinder? Doesn't this cause problems once the brake heats up? And once the pads wear, doesn't the open system just compensate, putting you right back where you started?

Avid brakes aren't an open system. It works because you "overfill" the whole system.

No problems with heat yet.

Pad adjust DOES compensate. Thankfully, avid pistons are deep enough that they will touch each other before one falls out, essentially giving you as much depth as you would like.

*Edit* Lets see if I can be a little more clear.

An avid brake is a "closed" system, which means no reservoir in the MC. What this means is that the total throw of the lever from fully out to against the bar will always push in the pistons a certain amount (in the case of Codes, this is alot). Too much "throw" means that you have too much pad movement before they hit the rotor. To alleviate this, instead of bleeding the system with the pistons fully open, you bleed it with them closed partway, essentially making a new "zero" point. They physically can't go back to fully open because of the excess fluid in the line. Additionally, as the pads wear, the pad adjust feature makes the volume of the MC smaller, forcing more fluid into the lines and closing the pistons more; compensating for a gap opening up in between the pad/rotor.

 

[IH8Rice]

Thankfully, avid pistons are deep enough that they will touch each other before one falls out, essentially giving you as much depth as you would like.

since Code pistons never seem to work in unison, they will fall out

 

[Ian Collins]

since Code pistons never seem to work in unison, they will fall out

do any four piston calipers really work unison? in my experience, most of them seem to all move pretty sporatically

 

[IH8Rice]

do any four piston calipers really work unison? in my experience, most of them seem to all move pretty sporatically

hope's are a wee bit better, but Codes are also notorious for this.

 

[sethimus]

run a normal bleed, except instead of using a bleed block, use a set of old worn out pads and some business cards. Put the worn out pads in place against the pistons and then slide business cards in between to desired thickness. Then bleed as normal. Its basically just setting a new "zero" point. Then, when you throw fresh pads in, the throw is very short. Problems only arise if you have a warped rotor (and with avid, that is a high possibility ).

But yeah, just like the guy said above, run a full bleed and then push the pads in a little and then bleed again.

anyone tried this with saints?

 

[Udi]

I don't understand how any of these methods work. Surely, all you're doing is effectively over-filling the master cylinder? Doesn't this cause problems once the brake heats up? And once the pads wear, doesn't the open system just compensate, putting you right back where you started?

Theoretically yes, practically no.
Most master cylinder reservoir sealing systems are pretty poor (i.e. outside the hydraulic compression system), in my experience this has been the case for both avid and recent shimano brakes. In shimano's case they are possibly designed that way for safety, whereas on avids fluid would just seep out of any random hole or gap around the res.

Either way if you overfill the brake via any of the methods above, I've found they'll work as you want them to for a while, and slowly they'll go back to how they were.

anyone tried this with saints?

Yes, and it works, but only temporarily (see above).

do any four piston calipers really work unison? in my experience, most of them seem to all move pretty sporatically

Shimano 4-pistons do in my experience (Saint and XT 4-pots). If some of your pistons seem a bit dead, you can make them move more by holding all the good pistons and cycling the sticky ones in and out, one by one.

Avid brakes aren't an open system. It works because you "overfill" the whole system.
...
An avid brake is a "closed" system, which means no reservoir in the MC.

That is incorrect. I have not owned a single avid brake (juicy, elixir, code) that was a closed system - just because the reservoir is not visible, does not mean it's not there. An open-system simply implies that in the reservoir there is a rubber bladder of some description with air on one side (just like an IFP or bladder in a shock). A pinhole somewhere in the lever will give it away, this allows air in and out.

 

[zdubyadubya]

More info??? What I stated, was what I have always been told and what I understood to be true. If it isn't the case, I would like to know more.

I know that Avid brakes have a reservoir, but I thought that what differentiates them from Shimano is that Avid is "closed" off to the environment (essentially sealed); where Shimano have a bladder and work kinda like a car brake system... Thats why this trick works with Avid brakes is because you aren't just adding more fluid to the reservoir (Shimano), but you are not allowing the pistons to fully open because there is excess fluid in the lines/piston bores/reservoir...

That is incorrect. I have not owned a single avid brake (juicy, elixir, code) that was a closed system - just because the reservoir is not visible, does not mean it's not there. An open-system simply implies that in the reservoir there is a rubber bladder of some description with air on one side (just like an IFP or bladder in a shock). A pinhole somewhere in the lever will give it away, this allows air in and out.

 

[Udi]

The Avid brakes are really no different to shimano, or any other current brake. They are not closed off, rather they all run an atmospherically backed bladder to my knowledge. The only closed-systems that I know of are much older brakes (Hope used to make some). This design has issues dealing with heat and pad-wear. See post #33 here.

The trick you describe will work better or worse on different brakes due to what I described after quoting big-ted above. The newer avid levers (elixir style) probably handle it better due to having less places for the excess fluid to leak out of, unlike the older style code/juicy levers (as well as shimano) that have a poorly sealed reservoir cap.

As big-ted said, it's not exactly the most legitimate way of doing things as it may undo some of the point of having an open-system in the first place (by reducing compensator volume), but in practice it seems to work fine.

 

[raretypeofbird]

bumping this cause im in a pickle. ive got older code 5's (2008) and previously had them bled at one shop and the throw was perfect. very solid. i dont know the exact method the mech used (forgot) but he definately said he overfilled it slightly. all was well but the rear reservoir started to leak fluid when it was really hot out and eventually I had to get them rebled and now the throw is just way off.. should I try the business card method? it seems like it would work well with codes but how many cards should i wedge? i like the pad to engage fairly quickly and my front pistons are so whack (one moves WAY more than the others)

god damn codes...

 

[captainspauldin]

bumping this cause im in a pickle. ive got older code 5's (2008) and previously had them bled at one shop and the throw was perfect. very solid. i dont know the exact method the mech used (forgot) but he definately said he overfilled it slightly. all was well but the rear reservoir started to leak fluid when it was really hot out and eventually I had to get them rebled and now the throw is just way off.. should I try the business card method? it seems like it would work well with codes but how many cards should i wedge? i like the pad to engage fairly quickly and my front pistons are so whack (one moves WAY more than the others)

god damn codes...

Basically you want to use enough business cards so it's decently thick, but not thicker than you're brake rotor. I used a plastic divider from a tackle/small parts box for my shimano's that did the trick for my saint/xtr's.

 

[raretypeofbird]

Basically you want to use enough business cards so it's decently thick, but not thicker than you're brake rotor. I used a plastic divider from a tackle/small parts box for my shimano's that did the trick for my saint/xtr's.

see the problem with the business card trick and code 5's is the pads will rub constantly if you do this since they lack the contact adjust. I will try to use an old rotor with a piece of thick paper and see how that works.

 

[slowmtb]

My experience with Code 5's and Codes:

Follow the avid bleed procedure to the letter. Particularly take your time getting all the air out of the fluid ( takes a while but worth the effort ).

I bleed the brakes on the bike in place. When you have finished your contact point will be very close. I fine tune the lever throw by letting small amounts of fluid out of the piston until its the way I like it ( particularly with the 5's ).

NB: After the bleed leave your bike out in the sun on a warm day. You may find that your brakes drag after getting hot, just bleed a small amount of fluid off until they do not drag any longer.

Works for me