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Black Market Roam

E

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
491
24
Anyone heard of when they are going to be available? Looks like a killer am bike for downhillers.
 
T

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,637
641
Looks like a ripper for sure. Super swoopy top tube doesn't really match the rest of the frame in my opinion but still mighty purty
 
D

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
trib said:
Looks like a ripper for sure. Super swoopy top tube doesn't really match the rest of the frame in my opinion but still mighty purty
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I really do wish companies would cut that swoopy crap out. That top tube has no reason to be swoopy other than to be swoopy. Its ugly as hell too. Just make it straight!
 
OGRipper

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,735
1,247
NORCAL is the hizzle
Looks like a fun rig.

I think some people take it too far (Norco anyone?), but swoopy tubes do have a purpose. On this bike it's not hard to see how the curved top tube provides more standover clearance and how the curved down tube allows x-ups and bar spins with bigger single crown forks and also makes room for the shock. Try to connect those dots with straight tubes and it doesn't really work. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but I don't think the BM guys aren't doing it for the looks.
 
Uncle Cliffy

Uncle Cliffy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 28, 2008
4,490
42
Southern Oregon
Looks awesomo.

The bent tubes in the new shots aren't too bad IMO.

I think modern bikes need some hydroforming of some sort. One of my personal grips with the older Jedis was the abundance of straight toobs.
 
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norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,503
1,719
Warsaw :/
Hope they won't go crazy with the price. Looks pretty nice. Though for some reason I can force myself to like blackmarket.
 
T

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,637
641
Don't get me wrong I know why the swoops are there, and I have seen the cad version with a straighter top tube, which looks tonnes better in my opinion.

However, on the complete shown with the uber swooped top tube it doesn't even dip where you really want stand over height. Increased standover directly under the saddle isn't exactly useful, it needs to be more central to the top tube.

Of course I don't design bikes, I don't even ride them as much as I'd like to, I'm sure Carter and who ever else who had a hand in the design know better than I do.
 
Mulestar

Mulestar

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2007
1,061
0
in the dirt
I'm sure it absolutely shreds on downhills, but a 66 degree HA and no front derailleur isn't exactly "all mountain" in my book. If you only climbed roads and your descents were full of jumps and stunts it would be the ticket, but that thing would deliver the pain in Pisgah.

Don't get me wrong, sick bike and I would love to ride one, but its not what i'm looking for in a mid travel bike.
 
Uncle Cliffy

Uncle Cliffy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 28, 2008
4,490
42
Southern Oregon
Mulestar said:
I'm sure it absolutely shreds on downhills, but a 66 degree HA and no front derailleur isn't exactly "all mountain" in my book. If you only climbed roads and your descents were full of jumps and stunts it would be the ticket, but that thing would deliver the pain in Pisgah.

Don't get me wrong, sick bike and I would love to ride one, but its not what i'm looking for in a mid travel bike.
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If you go to the link with new pics, you'll see they're making it front derailleur compatible. Use a travel-adjust fork and climbing won't be AS bad.

What do you expect from a company with their history?
 
Mulestar

Mulestar

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2007
1,061
0
in the dirt
Uncle Cliffy said:
If you go to the link with new pics, you'll see they're making it front derailleur compatible. Use a travel-adjust fork and climbing won't be AS bad.

What do you expect from a company with their history?
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:thumb: Sweet. That was my main gripe. Just thought the original pic looked more suited as a park bike or a slopestyle bike, so I was surprised they were marketing it as "all mountain".

Looks dope, I'd love to take a spin on one, especially after seeing how nice the killswitch looks in person.
 
O

OBB

Monkey
Sep 25, 2008
157
3
No one else is concerned with 6 inches of travel delivered by a 2 inch stroke shock?
 
M

Matt 891

Chimp
Apr 14, 2008
58
0
Salem, VA


I just bought one of these. sandblasted the frame and have started buying a few parts for it. bought the 5 inch adjustment Reverb and Hammerschmidt should arrive shortly..

67 HA, 13 BB, stays are 16.5 or 17

stoked.

my Haro X7 has been dishing out the fun times for 3 solid years.
 
William42

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
4,012
771
Matt 891 said:


I just bought one of these. sandblasted the frame and have started buying a few parts for it. bought the 5 inch adjustment Reverb and Hammerschmidt should arrive shortly..

67 HA, 13 BB, stays are 16.5 or 17

stoked.

my Haro X7 has been dishing out the fun times for 3 solid years.
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:think: I'm confused. You ordered a roam? But you like your x7 more? or you're saying the x7 is better then the roam?

Anyway, is anybody else concerned with the fact that its a 6 inch concentric BB bike? I dont know what everybody is so excited about I thought we as consumers had figured out that we don't like concentric BB's because they yeild poor axle paths and leverage ratios.

Nothing against the bike, just curious what the hullabo is about.
 
Dogboy

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,215
618
Durham, NC
William42 said:
Anyway, is anybody else concerned with the fact that its a 6 inch concentric BB bike? I dont know what everybody is so excited about I thought we as consumers had figured out that we don't like concentric BB's because they yeild poor axle paths and leverage ratios.
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That's the Killswitch with the concentric pivot. The Roam has a pivot above the BB.
 
E

eatmyshorts

Monkey
Jun 18, 2010
110
0
South OZ
William42 said:
:think: I'm confused. You ordered a roam? But you like your x7 more? or you're saying the x7 is better then the roam?

Anyway, is anybody else concerned with the fact that its a 6 inch concentric BB bike? I dont know what everybody is so excited about I thought we as consumers had figured out that we don't like concentric BB's because they yeild poor axle paths and leverage ratios.

Nothing against the bike, just curious what the hullabo is about.
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How does a concentric bb cause a "bad leverage ratio"? Dont you mean it needs moar anti squat?
 
juanbeegas

juanbeegas

Monkey
May 6, 2008
355
2
Singapore
Wasn't that full build a picture taken of a prototype frame that they had built up for some bike show last year? That's what I remember reading, or am I the only one?
I don't get why people are making fuss about this bike being too slack for its intended use. Banshee's Spitfire has very similar numbers and I've not seen one review, online, bad mouthing its climbing abilities. I can vouch that my Spitfire climbs like a goat and going by an iPhone app my friend has installed, I have a 65 degree head tube angle on my frame.
 
miuan

miuan

Monkey
Jan 12, 2007
395
0
Bratislava, Slovakia
For a bike with FD, the pivot is much too high, it will likely bob @ granny gear. But it will sure rip down the hills. Looking forward to a BM DH bike.
 
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captainspauldin

captainspauldin

intrigued by a pole
May 14, 2007
1,300
198
Jersey Shore
The PB post is a bit confusing. The CAD drawings show a 7.875" x 2.25" shock, and the complete shows a 7.5 x 2" shock.. The complete also shows that it has 5.7" travel, so leverage ratio on the complete is 2.85:1. No mention of travel on the CAD drawing one.
 
jackalope

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,699
6,107
in a single wide, cooking meth...
OBB said:
There is a big difference between 3:1 and 2.7:1


And V10 is apples to this orange.
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My point was that people shouldn't get their thongs in a bunch over a 3:1 ratio, just because its a 3:1 ratio. If it was a 6" travel, pure SP with a 1" stroke shock, then yes, thats a problem. But with rate modifying links and shock rate manipulation, its not as easy as writing off a given ratio simply because it exceeds some magic, prescribed range. As for the V-10 example, I suppose its a DH "apple" compared to an AM "orange", but I was just pointing out that the way a bike performs usually cannot be judged by making assumptions about the leverage ratio.
 
time-bomb

time-bomb

Monkey
May 2, 2008
957
21
right here -> .
^^^I agree w/jackalope. Some people have a hard time reading between the lines.

The bike looks sweet. The adjustable dropouts are pretty nice looking too.
 
mtg

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
My Covert has 6" of travel with a 2" travel shock. It would probably work slightly better with a longer travel shock, but it already works reeally well as is.

Also, I think the Roam looks pretty sweet and will end up being pretty popular. The suspension looks like it will work well with a 1x9/1x10; also it appears to have chainstay, shock mount, axle type and easy HTA adjustments on the newest CAD model.
That BB height would probably be too low for me riding up rocky CO trails, but for places where you ride up a fire road, and bomb down a burly trail, I think the Roam would be pretty nice. The adjustments also would allow it to cover moar ground, making a "one bike" solution more practical for those that don't want/can't buy a trail bike and a DH.
 
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frorider

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
juanbeegas said:
Wasn't that full build a picture taken of a prototype frame that they had built up for some bike show last year? That's what I remember reading, or am I the only one?
I don't get why people are making fuss about this bike being too slack for its intended use. Banshee's Spitfire has very similar numbers and I've not seen one review, online, bad mouthing its climbing abilities. I can vouch that my Spitfire climbs like a goat and going by an iPhone app my friend has installed, I have a 65 degree head tube angle on my frame.
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i agree. i have a nomad 2 / Lyrik and a slackerized uzzi / solo air totem that has about a 66 HA , and by switching in a 10 mm longer stem and adjusting the rear shock, that uzzi climbs fairly steep and techy singletrack almost as well as the undeniably all-mtn Nomad. so the 66 HA on this bike seems fine to me for the intended purpose. people can fine-tune their cockpit setup to tweak it one way or another, or use a travel adjust fork (although that does bring the BB lower).

also, static HA and BB figures can be misleading when you don't know how the bike suspension tends to ride i.e. how much pedal induced squat is there, what's the leverage curve look like, etc.
 
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K

Kamanchi

Chimp
Oct 31, 2008
52
0
Califonia
The manufacture just got the top tube wrong on the first protos and it has been an eye sore since Carter got it at Vegas. It was never my intent to have swoops but a proto is a proto.
 
K

Kamanchi

Chimp
Oct 31, 2008
52
0
Califonia
Let me know if you have any technical questions about the new Roam. It is a very fun project to working on with Carter and one of the new add-ons to the design is the the ability to run a shorter 165mm(6.5")-38mm(1.5") stroke shock reducing travel to 107mm(4.2") of travel and weight if needed. It will come supplied with a shock mount for it.

Pablo
 

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Vrock

Vrock

Linkage Design Blog
Aug 13, 2005
276
59
Spain
Technical questions... Why do you like so much that kind of Leverage Ratio, isn't it too progressive???
 
K

Kamanchi

Chimp
Oct 31, 2008
52
0
Califonia
Vrock said:
Technical questions... Why do you like so much that kind of Leverage Ratio, isn't it too progressive???
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Glad you're interested... Leverage ratio alone doesn't infer progressiveness. The rate of change of leverage ratio within the complete cycle of wheel travel "can" determine a feel or "feedback" to the rider without the assistance of the shock damper.

The suspension design alone is a slave to the shock tune and these days rear shocks are very capable of mimicking multiple types of feedback.. just like the 1:1 LRs of forks. Forks don't need linkages, specific leverage ratios or rates to create tailored feedback-characteristics. Black Market has a specific need and customers and the new Roam and even the Killswitch are tailored to the individual rider needs and environments that the design will statistically be pushed into. The leverage ratio, rate of that ratio and shock tune are more a result of the environments of riding and rider opinions then a personal need for looks and clever linkage configurations. so The Roam has a very specific rate and shock tune around a specific pivot location that will create a tailored experience for the rider based on Black Markets riders and myself in testing. The "too progressive" is a matter that takes you trying out the Roam with whatever rear shock you see fit.

Hope that helps.
 
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