Yeah but anything sudden enough can use the wheel's own momentum against the fork. Impulse = force x time, right? To reduce a wheel's angular momentum from A to B, you need to do a certain amount of work... if you do it very suddenly (time = small) then the force has to be much higher. I don't think this is a case of "we put it on a bike, went down the street and it broke off the first time I touched the brakes", it's probably to do with fatigue... if it is indeed true (which I am inclined to believe it could be).zedro said:the tire has a finite tractive force, so i dont buy it.
it sounds like propaganda to me, great marketing buzz about how they know how to get so much power out of the brake it can snap forks and is too much for the worlds top riders.... .....sounds like they meant to say 'had no modulation'
Mate, I'm an engineering student. I do have some grasp of the concept of finite traction. I never said that would cause breakage. And if you'd care to read my post mentioning fatigue and rotational momentum, then feel free to respond to THAT.CreeP said:look at it this way fatman, like zedro said, there is a finite amount of grip the tyre can generate, and hell you can measure it in G's too as in force of gravity. what that means is that in whatever direction you are measuring, the tyre can hold (for the sake of argument) .75G that means that .75 times the weight on the tyre (rider+bike) is the force you're dealing with under braking, which is no where near enough on its own. point being is that you can't do enough Work because you can't generate enough Force within the kind of Time you'd need to.
another interesting tidbit is that Shimano lowered the power on their second gen deore hydro because of the target market. hell when they had those double rotor brakes all the riders found them too powerful, or too grabby more like.
Biker Grove said:Who cares about Brembo, really? Most Italian engineering is good for performance/speed but the actual quality/reliability of their products is poor, bar Marzocchi. (which is weird) Brembo, not unlike mountain bike products are very over-hyped. Brembo actually make some pretty average and some tacky stuff. Check out an AP Racing, Alcon, Mov-It, Rotora caliper, that'll show you, you can do far better than Brembo. In motorsports, isn't it funny how only one Formula 1 team (Ferrari) use Brembo? Nearly all the rest use AP Racing (British). Same with Rally, nearly all the teams use Alcon (British again). I'm not too sure about superbikes, and what brakes they use, but I'm quite sure they don't use Brembo. Maybe Braking? It just goes to show the hype surrounding Brembo just looking at what has been written on the thread. Stick to your Hopes, Hayes etc..Well, until Akebono brings a brake out anyway......
No, you PROBABLY just heard that they do. They might supply the AMA superbikes in America, but not the European superbikes, I'm sure. Brembo suck. Almost everyone into cars/superbikes etc know Brembo pretty much suck. It's funny how most Impreza owners swap over the Brembo's to AP Racing, Alcon or Mov-It, isn't it?LOOnatic said:Stick to cars fella.
Brembo supplies many top superbike and GP teams with brakes.
I'm not saying they are gonna be the holy grail of MTB brakes but your jumping the gun for bashing them and their not even released yet.
Anyway, as far as i see it more competition will yield better product and prices for the consumers in the end.
You think the Akebono's are gonna be cheaper than the Brembo's?
Hardly.
Biker Grove said:No, you PROBABLY just heard that they do. Brembo suck. Almost everyone into cars/superbikes etc know Brembo pretty much suck. It's funny how most Impreza owners swap over the Brembo's to AP Racing, Alcon or Mov-It, isn't it?
Who said I was bashing the ACTUAL mountain bike brake? I was simply saying that Brembo are over-rated and that no e-speculation should be made regarding this new brake, based on the hype and **** that everyone says off Brembo's other brakes. See this thread for examples of people and the hype they have heard regarding Brembo's car/superbike brakes.
Yeah, you're right about more competition etc.
Since when did I say the Brembo's were too expensive in general tems? Erm, NEVER. I know they are most likely too expensive for what they are, like all brembo brakes. You assume too much fella. As for Akebono, I feel they'd be at a higher price, but possibly be more worth the cash, especially as they are being developed with Honda (and the gearbox bike), who make MX bikes also- not too far away from DH in many respects.
Peace
Oh, and I suppose I know nothing. Where did I say that Brembo didn't work adequately/good? Never. Again: stop assuming. The thing I did say though was Brembo are poorly made, flexy (yes they are flexy on road cars due to road cars being heavier than race cars) and look cheap, plus they are overpriced. The point was, that for that price Brembo should have better build quality ontheir new DH brake. If they lowered the price on all their brakes, including the DH brake, they'd be great, as it is though, they're a ripoff. Got it now? And yes poorly built, cheap looking brakes can work effectively and well, just see Hayes for evidence of that.LOOnatic said:Well i have actually raced superbikes and actually used Brembo's so i have some clue of what i speak.
The brembo's i ran worked alot better over the stock CBR 600 rotor and caliper.
That is why i am willing to see if they can compare with the current MTB brake options.
Brembo makes cheap,midline and high grade brakes just like Hayes etc.
You seem to have a sour spot for Brembo just because they are common in the car world.
I assume nothing.
They might suckreal bad.
All i said was lets wait and see ......
Your saying that Brembo's are cheap, made bad and are crap then you say you are not assuming anything about the MTB brake.
You can't have it both ways .
Just be honest and admit that you have a vendetta against brembo for some reason and lets move on.
Oh, why is Honda running formula brakes and not the Akebono's?
LOOnatic said:Just be honest and admit that you have a vendetta against brembo for some reason and lets move on.
Ok, think what you want. Carrying on thinking irrationally. Do I care? Erm... NOPE.Toshi said:
Go elsewhere mate.Biker Grove said:To summarize; Brembo are way over-rated/ hyped. You guys have fallen for the hype. Their brakes look cheap. They are way over priced. They are poorly built. However, they do work well, but not as well as other brakes, which are also better made. So what if Brembo supply some superbike/F1 (Ferrari) teams? Just because a pro uses it, doesn't mean it is necessarily good, their are of course exceptions to that rule though, but Brembo isn't one of them. Most car racing brakes are useless on road cars (which most people drive), so how can you judge Brembo's DH brake for the everyday DH biker by their 'supposed' racing successes in motorsports? Brembos brakes for normal road cars, are crap.
If someone showed that same brake without Brembo written on it, would you still feel the same about it? Yeah the DH Brembo brake might work good etc, but for that price it is a rip-off.
All the fun of sharing a forum with misinformed 15 year olds lol
Here comes a 15 year old who thinks that because I'm not agreeing with him and his chums then I must automatically be ranting and raving, and that I obviously know nothing because he knows more because he read it on the Brembo site bla bla. Great work.JRogers said:Word. Chill out, guy.
And why should I go to Pinkbike? Is your sorry ass getting agitated? I have heard this site is full of uptight, narrow-minded snobby 15 year old racer types. Thanks for clarifying/proving that. I'm not getting pissy mate, believe me. I'm being sarcastic because all you guys sound like you have been brainwashed by Brembos marketing campaign or you work for them. It's quite funny really.LOOnatic said:Go to Pinkbike mate.
You have all kinds of opinions which is fine but you can't back them up without getting pissy.
How about sharing with us why and how Brembo's are cheaply made and flexy?
They might be pricey but so what? Most MTB parts are.
You either buy it or don't.
I'm not saying that Brembo's are the shiznit but all you do is whine about them yet you state you would like to try them anyway.
And they are not released yet.
So you say they blow for road cars
Fine. Thats not my area of specialty.
However,they have and do make good brakes for motorcycles as does AP, Lockheed, wilwood, etc.
If they make a good brake for moto then its possible they can for MTB.
Thats all i'm saying.
Your anti brembo because you don't care for their car brakes.
I'm pro Brembo because i liked them on my Honda moto.
Thats it.
Lets just wait to bash them for whatever reasons when they make it to production. Who knows, they price may come down.
If they suck royally then you can remind me then.
CreeP said:ok, the lot of you should grow up. you're bickering like so many two year olds and from what i can tell you haven't even seen pics of the thing.
here:
Biker Grove said:No, you PROBABLY just heard that they do. They might supply the AMA superbikes in America, but not the European superbikes, I'm sure. Brembo suck. Almost everyone into cars/superbikes etc know Brembo pretty much suck. It's funny how most Impreza owners swap over the Brembo's to AP Racing, Alcon or Mov-It, isn't it?
Who said I was bashing the ACTUAL mountain bike brake? I was simply saying that Brembo are over-rated and that no e-speculation should be made regarding this new brake, based on the hype and **** that everyone says off Brembo's other brakes. See this thread for examples of people and the hype they have heard regarding Brembo's car/superbike brakes.
Yeah, you're right about more competition etc.
Since when did I say the Brembo's were too expensive in general tems? Erm, NEVER. I know they are most likely too expensive for what they are, like all brembo brakes. You assume too much fella. As for Akebono, I feel they'd be at a higher price, but possibly be more worth the cash, especially as they are being developed with Honda (and the gearbox bike), who make MX bikes also- not too far away from DH in many respects.
Peace
please leave. your fixation with "15 year olds" and inability to discuss the merits of a unreleased product without insulting everyone else shows that you won't fit in here.Biker Grove said:And why should I go to Pinkbike? Is your sorry ass getting agitated? I have heard this site is full of uptight, narrow-minded snobby 15 year old racer types. Thanks for clarifying/proving that. I'm not getting pissy mate, believe me.
Thanks, good to see you idiots laughing at yourself, which was intentional. You're all so narrow minded, and brainwashed it's fun to poke fun at you and make you laugh at yourselves. My work has been done. Because you would know that I read car magazines, wouldn't you Mr All knowing Yank, right?the law said:You are funny. You should stop reading car magazines and actually ride. It sounds as if you have zero experience with those brakes other than from standing around in the Starbucks parking lot and drooling over the latest installment of fast and furious.
At least in the motorcycle world, brembo brakes (and master cyclinders) are generally recognized as the best and are used in WSB as well as the AMA and MotoGP. Hell, if I could afford them, I would love a set of the mono-block calipers. Anyway, while looks really shouldn't matter, their moto brakes look bad-ass too. Check them out
Why don't you leave? Yeah I've a fixation with 15 year olds. Great conclusion. I guess I must have offended you right, Mr 15 year old yank who knows piss all, yer?Toshi said:please leave. your fixation with "15 year olds" and inability to discuss the merits of a unreleased product without insulting everyone else shows that you won't fit in here.
yeah, you got me right, i'm a 15-year-old, pseudo-intellectual, highly-strung idiot. exactly. you're not offensive so much as annoying...Biker Grove said:Why don't you leave? Yeah I've a fixation with 15 year olds. Great conclusion. I guess I must have offended you right, Mr 15 year old yank who knows piss all, yer?
I don't know- this forum is full of 15 year old pseudo-intellectual, media/hype-fed, highly-strung idiots who hate anyone having a differing opinion to them. Why not open your minds and pull your head out your asses and stop lapping up hype and over-zealous marketing campaigns you gullible, narrow-minded idiots? It's laughable, truly laughable. Most of you need a Super Monster slammed in your faces! lol
Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Some day even you will be able to ride your bike without training wheels. In the meantime rest assured that not only am I not American, but I also have lived on more continents than you are ever likely to visit. Since you are out of your league, why don't you stop arguing and admit that you have a poster of Van Diesel in Fast & Furious hanging above your bed.Biker Grove said:Thanks, good to see you idiots laughing at yourself, which was intentional. You're all so narrow minded, and brainwashed it's fun to poke fun at you and make you laugh at yourselves. My work has been done. Because you would know that I read car magazines, wouldn't you Mr All knowing Yank, right?
Em, I don't live in America, dip****, and I don't like Fast and the Furious it's a load of crap IMO. Stop assuming. Another dumbass 15 year old who knows very little, assumes EVERYTHING.
They are not the best. Go pick up an AP or Nissin, far better. Here we go again, "they are used in racing bla bla." What's your point? Rockshox and Manipoo, Hayes, Progressive etc etc are used in racing and are a pile of ****e... see what I'm saying? Just because something is raced, doesn't mean ****. It doesn't mean it will hold up to everyday use, and warrant it's price tag. I'm talking about the everyday user who doesn't get free stuff, who has to pay their rip-off prices. And Brembo aren't used in many European races, only American ones like the AMA.
Looks matter if you're paying Brembo's rip off prices.
Jeremy R said:So when Mr Brembo bent you over, I can only assume no lube was applied?
I don't speak German, but it appears the Brembos are the heaviest and most expensive of the bunch.Mozo said:http://www.bike-magazin.de/bko/bike_artikel/show.php3?id=1812&nodeid=10
if you open the attachment (download) you have all the values and if anyone is proficient in german it would greatly help.
you are still limited to the tires tractive abilities, and time works into that side of the equation also, action and reaction. Plus throw in other factors mentioned like spokes, tire and associated deflections and you get a limited impulse.thaflyinfatman said:Impulse = force x time, right? ....
The rotational momentum doesn't have to have anything to do with the tyres, imagine if you lifted the whole bike off the ground, spun the wheels up to a high speed, then suddenly stopped it.zedro said:you are still limited to the tires tractive abilities, and time works into that side of the equation also, action and reaction. Plus throw in other factors mentioned like spokes, tire and associated deflections and you get a limited impulse.
is it possible for the brakes to reach temperatures that would over-age aluminum lowers?