Build so far
- Thread starter Kntr
- Start date
DB is no doubt awesome, but I wouldn't imagine worth that extra coin unless you are just feeling loaded.
Im selling a lot of things to get this bike. Ive sold my wifes bike, my Jeep soft top, and my Avalanche shock.
Ive been hearing good things about the Revox. I really would like the CCDB but $600 is a lot of money....
Anyone else have an opinion on the Revox?
Ive been hearing good things about the Revox. I really would like the CCDB but $600 is a lot of money....
Anyone else have an opinion on the Revox?
It's a manitou. All I need to know. Maybe, just maybe, they've got their design AND QC in order, but seeing as they couldn't get either right the past few go arounds OR on their current forks, I'll let some other folks who have no choice (OEM) do the testing on that one. There are good shocks on the market from Fox, RS, and Zoke... why push your luck unless you're going to shell out for a CCDB?
Does the Revox cost $50?
Because the Double Barrel cost $650.
It always a headscratcher on here when people talk about the price of a double barrel.
To put it in perspective, the cost of DHX and Vivid shocks are in the $400 to $450 range, and the the DB is $650.
So, it is 200 or 250 more.
The Fox 40 is $1600 and the Boxxer team is $895.
That is $705 more.
I have owned both of those forks, and IMO they are both good forks that perform well and are close in performance.
The double barrel on the other hand is an significant improvement over anything I have ever ran before. Whether it is worth the price difference is up to you.
I have a manitou evolver ISX6 for my DH bike. Its held up like a champ even after having a valve ripped out it of. Its (to date) the nicest shock I've ridden. I'm getting a ccdb tomorrow, but frankly even if it blows my mind, I'm still gonna think that for 200 less and half the weight, the evolver is still an A+ shock. If the revox feels anything like the evolver, its a good shock. (and since they both use intrinsic damping and have the same adjustments, I'm pretty sure they feel somewhat similar, albeit different spring curves)
You are seeing demons because of the old stuff they made. You ride a model not a company so be concerned about the opinions of the model Kanter is interested in. From what I hear most ppl are very happy with their revoxes. Some say it's better than the dhx. My old man uses an Evolver as William and is more than happy. Actually I think it may be even a bit better than my dhx air 5.0. Not buying one product because the company has some OTHER bad products is not the best thing to do. Going that way and most ppl should buy Iron Horse or Mongoose.
air /= coil...
That is somewhat true, which is why I said wait and see how the Revox does... let other people be the first users.
It would be one thing if Manitou had one bad run, but every single product they have put out, almost without exception, in the last decade has had serious design and/or quality flaws. For me it's going to take more than a few good initial reports on their latest effort before I encourage anyone with options to invest their money in being a tester.
It's not like it's impossible. Rockshox turned around after the SRAM takeover; however I similarly wouldn't have recommended a new RS product until they had a bit of a track record.
That's great news. I truly hope that it turns out to be a reliable, high-performance product. The warranty and customer service folks at Manitou have always been awesome people and they deserve to have a product in the field that they don't have to compensate for with amazing service.
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Travis? Works Great! Revox and Evolver get great reviews. Old X-verts were awesome. I also use swinger air 3 way (5-6 years old ) and works great. Used swinger 4 way and had no problems under very heavy use. The only problematic ones were actualy the late dorados and 6 way swingers + their customer support(at least in some places). They also have incredible XC stuff. Thinking like that no1 should now buy new taiwanease zoke products and none even a few years after that...
PS. Initial Reports? Revox isn't that new. Is it like 2 or 3 years?
I don't want to turn this into a Manitou hater thread, since it's about Kanter's build but I would say the x-verts were their last decent product. Every dorado, sherman, swinger, AND travis I have ever used or handled was seriously ****ed in some way. I had hoped intrinsic damping would erase the disaster that was SPV, but the travis I rode at whistler was a steaming pile of ****. Worst fork I have been on since my 2000 boxxer and maybe even worse. If they're using the same damping in their shocks, I wouldn't buy 'em as a paperweight.
Again, I hope they've improved and it's not like I'm a loyalist. Complaints about the latest zoke stuff make me question their reputation. RS had had some misteps on new products (e.g. 2-step). Fox isn't perfect either. However, so far these seem to be isolated products... not systemic. I'm really hoping Hayes can do for Manitou what SRAM did for RS.
Most ppl forget to service them regularly and they need it often. My old man uses a travis and it has the nices feeling in the market. I'd maybe like more progresivenss and faster rebound but the plush feel is great. He got it used dirt cheap because some guy told us it was not working for him and was crap. Apparently what could be compared to crap was the state of oil in his fork...
As for manitou they just ****ed up with SPV neglected the Dh/fr market for a while but imho there are going in good direction.
The CCDB only comes with a ti spring on the M6.
I think Ill just get the CCBD. The review on the Revox are pretty good on the MTBR reviews. It actually got a 5 star rating. I just dont trust Manitou. Plus, I have had some AWESOME customer service from Cane Creek.
FINAL BUILD
frame-09 Intense M6 with Cane Creek
fork-08 888 RC3-white
brakes-Avid Elixers 8"
handle bars-Syncros BULK bar-white
headset-Cane Creek Double Xc Flush
chain-Sram PC991
shifters and derailer-Sram X9
seat-WTB Rocket V ti
seatpost-Thompson Elite-black
grips-ODI Northshore with black rings
crank and bb-HammerSchmidt AM 22/36 OR Gravity Lite with LG1
wheelset-I9s
tires-Maxxis DHF 3c
tubes-Maxxis ultra lites
I think Ill just get the CCBD. The review on the Revox are pretty good on the MTBR reviews. It actually got a 5 star rating. I just dont trust Manitou. Plus, I have had some AWESOME customer service from Cane Creek.
FINAL BUILD
frame-09 Intense M6 with Cane Creek
fork-08 888 RC3-white
brakes-Avid Elixers 8"
handle bars-Syncros BULK bar-white
headset-Cane Creek Double Xc Flush
chain-Sram PC991
shifters and derailer-Sram X9
seat-WTB Rocket V ti
seatpost-Thompson Elite-black
grips-ODI Northshore with black rings
crank and bb-HammerSchmidt AM 22/36 OR Gravity Lite with LG1
wheelset-I9s
tires-Maxxis DHF 3c
tubes-Maxxis ultra lites
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Well said. I've got some more to add
Bacon /= Sled
Rubber duck /= Verb
The combo's are limitless.
Anyway, back OT, looks sick Kanter, can't wait to see er built
i have 2 sets of k24s, and one set of oro biancos (which come w/ the one finger lever).
at first i thought i'd buy the one-finger levers for the K24s, but for my large hands i prefer the stock K24 lever length. it's similar to the 'one finger' levers from some other brands. Yes, you need to move the clamps inboard a bit, but for me the feel is perfect as a one-finger brake.
formula brakes are my favorite brakes on the market.
the elixir CR looks promising but until they've been out a while, i'm reserving judgement.
Normally I have ZERO interest in watching guys ride mtb's UPHILL, but I would love to see video of you pedalling this specific tub of goo up some hills!
Ya gotta do, what ya gotta do. Not all states have lift access DH runs. Some people have to earn their DH around here. I use to ride a 9" travel Fly with an 888 at 45 lbs uphill all the time.
Actually Im surprised it took someone this long to see that. Im not set on the HS just yet. I just thought I would throw that in there.
I agree, do what you can with what you got. When I see Kanter I think "big bike with a front derailleur" and even back to "what's the biggest tire I can fit in ____".Ya gotta do, what ya gotta do. Not all states have lift access DH runs. Some people have to earn their DH around here. I use to ride a 9" travel Fly with an 888 at 45 lbs uphill all the time.
Actually Im surprised it took someone this long to see that. Im not set on the HS just yet. I just thought I would throw that in there.
While nothing is totally impossible, I think climbing on an M6 will come as close to impossible as it gets, and probably biting off more than anyone can chew.
Avalanche is only 600 with the high/low comp adjuster. BOING!
What, like every day?
I love the excuse that you have to "service it regularly" because it's engineered like crap. Maybe if you re-grease it every day or after every ride it will be ok, but then it's still engineered like crap.
My buddy climbs a 45-46 lb V10 with two front ring and a telescoping seatpost. He shifts it by hand.I agree, do what you can with what you got. When I see Kanter I think "big bike with a front derailleur" and even back to "what's the biggest tire I can fit in ____".
My other buddys ride;
two ride Demo 9s with 888
Stinky Deluxe with 66
Demo 7 with Boxxer WC
VP free with Boxxer WC
Bullit with Totem Air
Stinky with 888
Nomad with 66
Demo 8 with 888
Transition Blindside with 66
Big Hit with Super T
Everyone in my area uses big bikes for AM riding. The area we ride is sort of like a small North Shore and our shuttles are super long with some easy climbing involved.
I make climbs on my current bike (Socom) with 66ETA that a lot of XC riders cant even make.
I really wont use the M6 to climb, but I have to have a granny gear for when my wife rides the Socom and I have to man up and ride the M6.
Oh ya, no one runs tires less that 2 ply 2.5 DH tires either.
Most run 2.65 and 2.7s.Its more fun to ride a DH bike when your trails start like this and only have some climbing involved.
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Like every 2-3 months? Downhill bikes were not build to be **** swimming amphibias, if you stop dipping it in crap I'm sure It'd stop working like it. Dunno in what conditions you ride but my old man rides with me in quite heavy mud and last time I checked the fork worked quite nice. You looked inside? Maybe it has some mechanical problem and that's why it works bad.
BTW. Kanter yeah I know one guy who done transcarpatia on a heavy FR rig with a DC (it's a stage marathon!!!) but that doesn't mean that's a good idea
That makes a lot more sense. Our climbs are almost as steep (and rooty and rocky) as our downhills so that would not be possible here. Sprint up, sprint down. If we had service roads and the requirement was to spin the easiest gear for an hour I can see where you could make do with a full on DH bike going up. Around here, might as well hike a bike IMO.Everyone in my area uses big bikes for AM riding. The area we ride is sort of like a small North Shore and our shuttles are super long with some easy climbing involved.
I really wont use the M6 to climb, but I have to have a granny gear for when my wife rides the Socom and I have to man up and ride the M6.
Its more fun to ride a DH bike when your trails start like this and only have some climbing involved.
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and that has exactly what to do with this thread?
a coil shock is going to feel different than an air shock and has to be constructed differently as well. you nominally pointed that out, i highlighted it.
there is a reason people ride coil shocks on dh bikes.
kanter, thanks for building up my dream bike, even if i'm never going to be able to swing my leg over an m6 in my life.
Did you look into the Bionicon bikes? They sound like exactly what you are looking for.
http://www.bionicon.com/standard.xml?vpID=423&SID=1223874591_b4940000000080c9e9a3
Um thanks but no thanks.
well said.Um thanks but no thanks.
I did my first real ride on my new lucky, its got a 13.7inch BB and a 65 degree HT with 175mm cranks, and aside from banging my pedals on the ground in rooty or rutted sections if I wasn't careful, it climbed just fine. Why sacrifice everything else so you can get a bike with questionably better performance at climbing? Why get a downhill bike.
by the way kanter, it sounds like you're pretty set on the m6 or socom, but if you're still curious about whether or not the lucky would be good, shoot me a PM and I'll give you a more in depth write up on it.
I guess in all fairness I'm running my in 7 inch mode with a ccdb, but I haven't had any trouble climbing. Maybe I'm naturally a good climber (I don't think so!) but I was first to the top when I rode Santa Cruz and I was passing quite a few dudes on XC bikes. I wouldn't say the bike excels at climbing, but its definitely better then the M6 and its 100% doable.
At any rate, the m6 sounds like a sure bet for you, and they're super fun to ride on the descents, so have fun with it!
Well, we looked at the SX Trail 1. The beast weighted 38 lbs 10 oz. Thats just crazy. My Socom weighs less and has 2 more inches of travel front and rear. The wife hates the colors. They have it marked down to $2346, which is down from $3600. Needless to say, the wife wants the Socom. It looks like the M6 might just be happening. I did get to ride a V10 today and the thing was quite nice. hmmmm
I think you should seriously consider a V10, as much as I love the M6 there is a few things that I feel could be... lets say improved on. The V10 on the other hand seems to be a bit more refined in some ways and I must say rides fantastic. ( To be fair I haven't ridden the M6 yet as the guy who owns it is a bit precious only parking lot loopers) but I just don't see how to justify it. I believe that the M6 frame is 1lb heftier as well (corrections?).
All the rambling aside, you really can't go wrong with either imo.
Santa Cruz says you cant fit a Hammer Schmidt on a V10. I really need two rings or a Hammer Schmidt.
We did a big ride yesterday on BIG bikes. Here are a few pics of why we ride BIG bikes for XC. We did 2 miles of carry/push for 10 miles of awesome DH.
Here is a pic of my buddy next to his v10. My other buddy rides a Stinky Deluxe and my Socom is there too.
A long DH all the way back to the bottom. Its almost a 5000 ft decent in 10 miles.
The push/ride up isnt that bad on a DH bike.
Oh man this is a fun DH. I think its one of the best in the valley.
Check out the trail. I would not want to be on a light XC bike. No thanks.
We did a big ride yesterday on BIG bikes. Here are a few pics of why we ride BIG bikes for XC. We did 2 miles of carry/push for 10 miles of awesome DH.
Here is a pic of my buddy next to his v10. My other buddy rides a Stinky Deluxe and my Socom is there too.
A long DH all the way back to the bottom. Its almost a 5000 ft decent in 10 miles.
The push/ride up isnt that bad on a DH bike.
Oh man this is a fun DH. I think its one of the best in the valley.
Check out the trail. I would not want to be on a light XC bike. No thanks.
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Oh, come on! A big knobbied unicycle could tear that up! 
I called Tyler and Im ordering them today given hes still got mine sitting there. I figured you guys had snow there, I went to bogus this weekend 4 wheelin and there was 7"+ there.
If Im around the NW next year Ill try and make a trip that way to ride!
Nice trail, pretty good singletrack! If/when you get down this way we'll get Bob the builder (brodie/Norco rep) and go ride Slate creek. We will bring a GPS this time as we got lost in the woods for over 8 hours as night approached!
Also beauty creek in courdelane is sketchy and fun!!!!!
I called Tyler and Im ordering them today given hes still got mine sitting there. I figured you guys had snow there, I went to bogus this weekend 4 wheelin and there was 7"+ there.
If Im around the NW next year Ill try and make a trip that way to ride!
Nice trail, pretty good singletrack! If/when you get down this way we'll get Bob the builder (brodie/Norco rep) and go ride Slate creek. We will bring a GPS this time as we got lost in the woods for over 8 hours as night approached!
Also beauty creek in courdelane is sketchy and fun!!!!!
Sounds good Bullcrew.
I did get a little time on my buddys V10 yesterday. I was surprised how steep the headangle felt. Yes, it was sagging about 4 inches.
I checked the HA and BB of the V10, Socom, and M6.
M6-64.5 HA and 13.75 BB
Socom-66.5 HA and 14.125 BB
V10-67 HA and 14.8 BB
I did get my 888 yesterday. I might slap it on the Socom and give it a try for a bit.
I did get a little time on my buddys V10 yesterday. I was surprised how steep the headangle felt. Yes, it was sagging about 4 inches.
I checked the HA and BB of the V10, Socom, and M6.
M6-64.5 HA and 13.75 BB
Socom-66.5 HA and 14.125 BB
V10-67 HA and 14.8 BB
I did get my 888 yesterday. I might slap it on the Socom and give it a try for a bit.
Kanter,
Not to derail, but how does your buddy with the dual ring V10 have it set up? Just 2 rings with a bash or does he have a chainguide rigged up?
Thanks!
When we do all mountain riding he runs two rings and a bash. He shifts it by hand. He loses the chain once in a great while. He is trying to figure a way out to run two rings and a chainguide. When we hit the resorts he switches back to a single ring and a guide.
For awhile he ran a roller with a zip tie on the chainstay to hold the chain on the rings. It worked pretty good but he is stil trying to figure something out.