Quantcast

Buyer Beware! Wheelword.com STINKS!!!

Mar 27, 2004
24
0
So, I ordered a KHS FR2000 a few weeks ago from wheelworld. When the bike arrives, the box is utterly destroyed. Upon unpacking the bike, I see that wheelworld's packing job had a lot to be desired. The front wheel was wrecklessly jammed in the box and one of the spokes was bent on the crank arm and there were scratches all over the downtube, crank arm and rear shock. Nothing was wrapped around any part of the frame to protect it(or any of the components), and the only packaging material used was newspaper. After searching through the loose newspaper, I had no luck finding a sales invoice or any owners manuals for the bike, shock or fork, which is standard when buying a new bike. It would be nice to know how to dial in my suspension and have proof of purchase!

I call wheelworld to tell them about all the initial problems and they immediately go on the defensive, blaming UPS for everything even though the actual damage was done because the bike was packaged improperly and the front wheel was jammed into the box, and the bikes frame/components werent protected with anything.(very poor packaging!) I get sick of arguing and give up happy that they are going to send me an invoice and the requested literature on the bike. When the invoice arrives, I see that I was charged a $35 "build/packaging" fee! I called wheelworld again, and I'm told that it's standard for mailorder bike companies to charge this fee, or else the bike would come as a frame and a build kit....WHAT???? I explain that this is the third mail order bike I have purchased, and that they have always come mostly assembled, minus the pedals, stem/handlebars, grips, front brake caliper etc...
After almost an hour of arguing I finally get the manager to credit me back the bogus $35 fee. Nobody should have to endure the amount of ridicule, patronizing and just plain out crappy attitude I put up with from a MANAGER, after buying a bike!

Oh, its not over yet. After I get the bike ready to ride, I turn the compression adjustment knob and the rear romic shock BLOWS UP ! Shock oil EVERYWHERE! I called wheelworld back and not surprisingly they immediately go on the defensive again, looking for any and every way to turn things around on me so I'm the dummy responsible for the shocks failure so as they dont have to help me. I finally get them to agree to switch out the shock for me after another HOUR on the phone. I send them back the complete shock, with hardware, and what I get back is just the shock MINUS the hardware! Great....am I EVER going to get to ride this bike? So, I finally get the hardware sent to me, and everything is assembled and ready to ride.

On the first ride, the bike has obvious drive train issues and continuously ghost shifts anytime a lot of torque is placed on the crank arms while pedaling. Additionally, when I try to shift into the lowest gear in the rear(big cog) the chain hits the spokes and falls off. I tried tightening the low adjustment screw on the rear deraileur so that the cage is perfectly aligned with the gears, and also played around with the barrel adjuster and nothing works. I call wheelword back to see if I can get some follow up tech support. The sales guy I talked to was no use at all, so I ask to speak to a mechanic. The mechanic talks to me for 2 minutes and tells me he is too busy to help me. I explain to him that I just purchased a $1500 bike from his store and that I think some follow up support is justified. I asked him if there was a better time for him to help me, and he stated I should take the bike to my local bike shop! After telling him that I would prefer to at least try and fix it myself first, he states that he has to go help on the sales floor! When I reminded him that I too was a customer, and that it appeared he valued potential customers more than customers whose money they already had, his response was, "sorry sir, in-store customers, take priority over mailorder customers!!!!!! That one statement sums up wheelworlds entire service philosophy as I see it. Can you believe he said that?

I will NEVER again order ANYTHING from Wheelworld! I don't care if their prices are good. I have been buying things mail order for years now, and have never recieved such poor customer service! On the other hand, I have had EXCELLENT experiences with JensonUSA. I guess I had gotten a bit spoiled dealing with a company like Jenson who goes out of their way to assist customers before, during AND AFTER the sale. I took it for granted that the type of service I was recieving from Jenson was NOT the mail order industry standard. POOR FORM WHEELWORLD!!!

The reason for this post is to alert others out there that DO buy items mailorder. If I had read a post like this one prior to the sale, I would have saved myself time, money and frustration by looking elsewhere. I really dont want to get into the pros/cons of buying from a LBS vs. mailorder. Thanks...
 

Lexx D

Dirty Dozen
Mar 8, 2004
1,480
0
NY
Is this where i give you the support the local shop speech?:D

Sorry about the bad luck. I wouldn't let them off the hook so easily. Make sure you get names of the people you talk to. You are a customer and they should help or at least point you in the direction of help.
 

RideND

Monkey
Nov 1, 2003
795
2
Mandan, ND
I disagree with the last statement. As a consumer you should find the best price available and more than likely that would be mail-order. HS, I feel your pain and hope that you can get the bike up and running like it should. It sucks spending so much money on something and gettin the shaft on customer serivce. I wish you the best of luck and I won't be buying anything from WheelWorld until they get their act together.
________
JAILBROKEN
 
Last edited:

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
LBS shops are usualy overpriced. the old one i used to go to, wanted 120 bucks to install one hayes front brake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fcusd dat! i told him im never coming again and he said, "have fun doing it yourself!" well, i did. and have never been there since.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Gotta side with Ralph on this one. Support your LBS. The bikes come from KHS poorly assembled. If you aren't knowledgable enough to do the adjustments yourself, you should be buying from a bike shop and not mail order. The only mail order company I support is Go-Ride. Partially because I know all those guys ride and they are also a LBS.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Originally posted by mack
LBS shops are usualy overpriced. the old one i used to go to, wanted 120 bucks to install one hayes front brake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fcusd dat! i told him im never coming again and he said, "have fun doing it yourself!" well, i did. and have never been there since.
Did you buy the brake there, or did you buy it mail order and then expect a good price when you went to your LBS and asked them to install it?
They gotta pay the rent somehow.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Originally posted by RideND
I disagree with the last statement. As a consumer you should find the best price available and more than likely that would be mail-order. HS, I feel your pain and hope that you can get the bike up and running like it should. It sucks spending so much money on something and gettin the shaft on customer serivce. I wish you the best of luck and I won't be buying anything from WheelWorld until they get their act together.
You get what you pay for. If you paid more at a shop, you would have the right to demand better service. They probably made $50 on that bike. He can't afford to spend an hour on the phone talking you thru a der adjustment.
 
Mar 27, 2004
24
0
In a perfect world, I would absolutely buy exclusively from my LBS. Unfortunately that is not a very realistic option for me. This bike would have cost $2399 from my local bike shop(1399 + shipping mail order). Everything at LBS' tend to be 30-50 percent more expensive than mail order! I make less than TEN BUCKS an hour, I cannot afford to support LBS unless they reduce their prices to be at least semi-competitive with mail order. If I worked a job that allowed me the luxury of not living check to check, I would support my LBS, unfortunately at this point in my life, I cant.

The reason for my post was to warn others who also buy mailorder of my personal experience with Wheelworld. If I had seen a post like mine warning of an experience with wheelworld like this one, It would of been enough of a red flag for me to look elsewhere and avoid a lot of frustration. Thanks for all your guys feedback though...
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
I don't blame people for buying mail order. I do it on lots of stuff. You have the right to demand a sound product (the shock issue), and proper packaging, but you can't complain if the bike isn't assembled correctly. I'm surprised they even took it out of the original box. That is what your getting for your money at your LBS.

Have a good weekend all, I'm off to Whistler.:p
 

RideND

Monkey
Nov 1, 2003
795
2
Mandan, ND
Originally posted by buildyourown
You get what you pay for. If you paid more at a shop, you would have the right to demand better service. They probably made $50 on that bike. He can't afford to spend an hour on the phone talking you thru a der adjustment.

So a fork that is 350 from a mailorder place and the same fork for 500 at a bike shop is a different fork? The 500 dollar fork that is the same is better because you bought it at a bike shope?
________
Professional liability insurance forum
 
Last edited:

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Originally posted by HippieShredder
Build your own, did you even read the entire post before responding? It doesnt appear that you did...
Hippie, I read your post. That reply was to Mack's comment about being overcharged by his LBS.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Originally posted by RideND
So a fork that is 350 from a mailorder place and the same fork for 500 at a bike shop is a different fork? The 500 dollar fork that is the same is better because you bought it at a bike shope?
I said you have right to demand the same product, but not the same level of service. If I paid $500 for a fork, a good shop would install it for free or heavily discounted. If you paid $350 mail order, you better not expect the same deal.
 
Mar 27, 2004
24
0
Originally posted by buildyourown
I don't blame people for buying mail order. I do it on lots of stuff. You have the right to demand a sound product (the shock issue), and proper packaging, but you can't complain if the bike isn't assembled correctly. I'm surprised they even took it out of the original box. That is what your getting for your money at your LBS.

Have a good weekend all, I'm off to Whistler.:p
I wish they hadnt taken it out of the box from KHS, I probably wouldnt have had as many problems! Their bogus $35 build is probably why I'm having shifting probs in the first place, and was definately why the bike arrived poorly packaged and all scratched up with a bent spoke!

At any rate, have fun at Whistler!!!
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
I should add that this doesn't apply just to mail order. In Seattle, we have Supergo shops. They have good prices, but I wouldn't expect them to have a knowledgable staff or good assembly for that matter. I put Go-Ride in the same basket as my local shop. Higher price and superior knowledge/service.
 

Spunger

Git yer dumb questions here
Feb 19, 2003
2,257
0
805
Everyone sooner or later will have a bad online experience. It's just like saying "sheit happens"

I support my LBS when I can. Usually it's when I am in a hurry and need something, it's worth the extra $5-10 to get it now and get on my ride then wait a week for a online place to ship it. I would never expect them to give me deals and such, when they talk to me and explain things that's good enough.

I'd feel ya though, I'd be pissed knowing I just sepnt $1500 and can't even use my bike. Everyone can feel on that one.

Honestly I dunno about this. I would buy every part to build a bike, but would never expect an online place to do a stellar job unless it was a super specialized shop like go-ride where all they deal with is the DH/FR crowd. Either them or Unreal cycles. Cambria/Jenson/Universal etc...would be good for the parts but not a build.
 

1000-Oaks

Monkey
May 8, 2003
778
0
Simi Valley, CA
I've had nothing but outstanding service from Jenson mail-order, and very good service from Wheelworld (in store). I truly hate my local bike shop, but I guess that's really due to one rotten lying sack of ____ employee that takes advantage of people. The other guys there are fine, but there's no avoiding the weasel a$$, he seems to work 24 hours a day and will find you.

On a side note, a buddy bought a Tomac from somewhere online and nothing on the bike was torqued or adjusted. I don't know why they bother "assembling" it, you have to start from scratch anyhow.
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
i got the brake offline for 100, the shop was selling a new brake for 210, AND THAT DIDNT INCLUDE installation!!!!!!!!!! say hello to CT boys.
 

prophet6

Chimp
Mar 25, 2002
96
0
North Easton, MA
I've been in the bike industry for a very long time, so I'm going to say the following carefully:


If you can't adjust a bike's shifting, you shouldn't be assembling a bike. At all.


You might also consider adjusting you perception of profit margins in the bike industry to something approaching reality. Shops make virtually nothing on a bike sale. Once you factor in storage, assemble, handling, and sales time to sell the thing, it's often the case they take a small hit to get the thing out the door.

I'm sorry, but I've got no pitty.





p6
 

Fury

Monkey
Oct 9, 2002
739
0
Toronto, Canada
...yes it is! :D

One of the reasons I switched to mail-order after 7+ years of LBS support is that here in Canada trying to order something is an absolute joke:

First I go to the bike shop which of course doesn't have the part in stock,
Then they call the Canadian distributor which 9 times out of 10 doesn't have it in stock either,
Then I wait a month for the part to come into the CDN distributor, then another week for it to be shipped to the LBS.

If I order from the U.S. it takes approximately 7 business days or less (even less if I want to pay more for shipping) and I have the part in my hand. Add to that the fact that the exchange rate was .75 making it very easy for me to approach CDN dealer cost if I found a good mail-order deal.

I've found Go-Ride.com and aebike.com are awesome. Aebike has tons of inventory and parts so there hasn't been much waiting. Go-Ride is like dealing with your LBS only better prices and more product knowledge.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,029
9,684
AK
Originally posted by mack
LBS shops are usualy overpriced. the old one i used to go to, wanted 120 bucks to install one hayes front brake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fcusd dat! i told him im never coming again and he said, "have fun doing it yourself!" well, i did. and have never been there since.
You should definitly take your bike to the shop and show the bitches that you put it on :D

One of these days I'll get around to charging myself for the bike I built a few months ago, the wheels I built, the brakes I installed :D

I've had great experience with universal cycles, cambria, supergo, go-ride, bikeusa, and probably around 2 others that I'm leaving out right now.

There are some rules to ordering from mail order;

Don't order it when you need it in "x" amount of time.

Don't order it if it's out of stock.

Don't order it if it is not EXACTLY what you need.

There are others.....
 
Mar 27, 2004
24
0
Originally posted by prophet6
I've been in the bike industry for a very long time, so I'm going to say the following carefully:


If you can't adjust a bike's shifting, you shouldn't be assembling a bike. At all.


You might also consider adjusting you perception of profit margins in the bike industry to something approaching reality. Shops make virtually nothing on a bike sale. Once you factor in storage, assemble, handling, and sales time to sell the thing, it's often the case they take a small hit to get the thing out the door.

I'm sorry, but I've got no pitty.

p6


A) First of all, I wasnt asking for your pitty, if you would have read the entire post you would know that it was directed at people who DO shop MAILORDER and who are looking for feedback prior to placing an order!

B) Secondly, What does my ability to adjust a bikes shifting, or my mechanical worthiness to assemble a bike have to do with my post??? GO READ "A" AGAIN!

C) Lastly, It's obvious you work at a bike shop. Nobody else would have such a skewed view of profit margins and overhead. The mark up at LBS's is amazingly high, sometimes as much as 70% above mailorder. If LBS's cant profit with those kinds of margins then it is either b/c of bad business practices, or customers getting wise and shopping elsewhere, implying the shop needs to bring their prices down to "somewhere approaching reality."

I'm so sick of hearing all the LBS's whining about how they are all going to go out of business if customers continue to order off the internet. As I see it, they have a few choices. They can either bring their prices down around the same price as mailorder or they can join them! Almost ALL of the successfull mail order companies started out as LBS's and continue to run their local business in addition to their mailorder business.

Therefore, I have no pitty for you, your view of profit margins OR your LBS!
 

Lexx D

Dirty Dozen
Mar 8, 2004
1,480
0
NY
Originally posted by HippieShredder

Secondly, It's obvious you work at a bike shop. Nobody else would have such a skewed view of profit margins and overhead. The mark up at LBS's is amazingly high, sometimes as much as 70% above mailorder. If LBS's cant profit with those kinds of margins then it is either b/c of bad business practices, or customers getting wise and shopping elsewhere, implying the shop needs to bring their prices down to "somewhere approaching reality."

I'm so sick of hearing all the LBS's whining about how they are all going to go out of business if customers continue to order off the internet. As I see it, they have a few choices. They can either bring their prices down around the same price as mailorder or they can join them! Almost ALL of the successfull mail order companies started out as LBS's and continue to run their local business in addition to their mailorder business.

Ok, i was with you up until here. I've been around and working in shops for a while and this is stupid. The reason wheel world can sell you that stuff so cheap is volume and bike stripping. They order a bunch(get a deal for quantity) and then pull the bike apart. Then they sell disc packages, frames, etc..... there is no way a bike shop can compete with that.:angry: If you want to shop mailorder great have fun with your exp. Otherwise buy local spend a bit more and get the CS you pay for. You never worked in a shop so you don't know. It's that simple. Some shops will try to match prices just to keep you coming there.
 

bushwacker

Monkey
Aug 21, 2003
224
0
Norcal :/
Originally posted by HippieShredder
A) First of all, I wasnt asking for your pitty, if you would have read the entire post you would know that it was directed at people who DO shop MAILORDER and who are looking for feedback prior to placing an order!

B) Secondly, What does my ability to adjust a bikes shifting, or my mechanical worthiness to assemble a bike have to do with my post??? GO READ "A" AGAIN!

C) Lastly, It's obvious you work at a bike shop. Nobody else would have such a skewed view of profit margins and overhead. The mark up at LBS's is amazingly high, sometimes as much as 70% above mailorder. If LBS's cant profit with those kinds of margins then it is either b/c of bad business practices, or customers getting wise and shopping elsewhere, implying the shop needs to bring their prices down to "somewhere approaching reality."

I'm so sick of hearing all the LBS's whining about how they are all going to go out of business if customers continue to order off the internet. As I see it, they have a few choices. They can either bring their prices down around the same price as mailorder or they can join them! Almost ALL of the successfull mail order companies started out as LBS's and continue to run their local business in addition to their mailorder business.

Therefore, I have no pitty for you, your view of profit margins OR your LBS!

Well, have fun with your $1500 pile of parts anyway.
 

T0mo

Monkey
Feb 12, 2003
434
0
nedtown, colorado
Originally posted by HippieShredder

C) Lastly, It's obvious you work at a bike shop. Nobody else would have such a skewed view of profit margins and overhead. The mark up at LBS's is amazingly high, sometimes as much as 70% above mailorder. If LBS's cant profit with those kinds of margins then it is either b/c of bad business practices, or customers getting wise and shopping elsewhere, implying the shop needs to bring their prices down to "somewhere approaching reality."

I'm so sick of hearing all the LBS's whining about how they are all going to go out of business if customers continue to order off the internet. As I see it, they have a few choices. They can either bring their prices down around the same price as mailorder or they can join them! Almost ALL of the successfull mail order companies started out as LBS's and continue to run their local business in addition to their mailorder business.
that was about one of the dumbest things I've ever read. I just typed out a whole bunch of crap, then I realized that no matter how it gets explained to you, you won't get it. You oughta work at a shop for a little while, then you can see how little $ they really make.

Also, why were you b1tching at wheel world for a blown shock? Wouldn't that be something to take up with romic?
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,029
9,684
AK
Well then there's one solution;

Decrease the amount of shops so they don't have to charge 200% over cost to make money. All those towns that have 3 or 4 bike shops need to have ONE bike shop, and some should probably go without. Every body and their dog wants to have a bike shop in this town (that's why there's 4 of them for 35,000 people plus a couple smaller fringe communaties surrounding).

Stop crying about how high you have to mark up the products (well above most other wholesale to retail situations) and point out what the real problem is, too many bike shops.

I know how much they mark up stuff, there's a calculator that they use based on the cost of the item, and it runs around 200% or even more for things that cost about as much as an LX or XT derailer. They make money off of selling bikes and servicing them.
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
LBS are charging for having the tools and the knowledge about hot use them. Yeah, they overcharge for the parts a bit too... but knowledge is power!

You want the best deals - buy the tools, learn how to use them and shop carfully. You want a perfectly built bike - talk to your LBS(not all LBS...)

Personally - I bought my last bike via internet... as parts. Took me a while to build it, I've got a great bike for 1/3 -1/2 the cost!
 

kdog-rider

Monkey
Aug 10, 2003
123
0
Boulder Colorado
Go-ride is the way to go.
I got a pair of TLD shorts from them. They were to small so I called them up and they were happy to exchange them for a larger pair. The second pair I got was still to small(I dont know if was just me, but Troy Lee's sizing seems a bit goofed) And agian they were happy to exchange them. Shure I didn't get the special closeout once in a life time no deal better price, but I got great customer sevice and a pair of shorts that I am happy with. So ya.
 

thaflyinfatman

Turbo Monkey
Jul 20, 2002
1,577
0
Victoria
Originally posted by T0mo
I thought he said it blew while he had it? If it came blown, then I'd talk to wheelworld, but not if it blew while he had it.
Wheel World is held responsible to the buyer, and Romic is held responsible to Wheelworld... if the buyer chooses to circumvent the retail outlet (as often happens) then you just cut out the middleman (not that there's any problem with that). Doesn't mean Wheel World doesn't have an obligation to help him there - dealing with Romic should be their task, not his!
 

bushwacker

Monkey
Aug 21, 2003
224
0
Norcal :/
Originally posted by thaflyinfatman
Wheel World is held responsible to the buyer, and Romic is held responsible to Wheelworld... if the buyer chooses to circumvent the retail outlet (as often happens) then you just cut out the middleman (not that there's any problem with that). Doesn't mean Wheel World doesn't have an obligation to help him there - dealing with Romic should be their task, not his!
Why would you expect mail-order to do your warranty claims for you? Read their customer service policies.

According to their site, they do Returns and Exchanges, for new, un-used items within 15 days.
They have no policy concerning warranty claims, so I would assume that means for warranty claims, you are on your own.
Warranties come from the manufacturer, the retailer CAN, but doesn't HAVE TO help you resolve warranty claims.
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
Free market economys are a bitch arent they? jesus. this isnt communism, if u cant compete you go out of buisness. thats life, this is america.