[Savage_Animal]

All in all my dobermann pinscher isn't cutting it, I'm displeased with the geometry (mainly TT length) and I also dented it the other day doing pedal grinds. Which is kinda a bummer because I was going to sell it...

Anyway I'm thinking of picking up a new frame, so I narrowed it down to two, now I can't decide which one. Their both very similar and only have minor differences:

2010 NS Majesty

Weight: 2,22 kg

Other info:
Material: Oval quatro butted japanese CrMo
• Fully heat treated after welding
• Ultra clean look, completely no unnecessary elements on the frame, micro dropouts
• Special offset butted downtube with no external gusset
• Removable cable guides
• Black oxidized -full rust protection
• Weight: 2.22 kg (void-black), 2.27kg (other colours)
• MTB hubs spacing (135mm), integrated headset, Spanish BB

Geometry:
Version: 26" (475 mm Gabel)
Head angle: 70,5°
Seat angle: 71°
Top tube (physical): 571 mm
Seat tube: 307 mm
Chain stays: 381 mm

Of course Martin Soderstrom rips on it.. http://www.pinkbike.com/video/102577/


or...



2010 Dartmoor Cody

Weight: 2,1 kg

Other info:
Built of Japanese seamless cr-mo 4130 tubes.
Multiple butted.
Heat treated after welding.
One piece hydroformed chainstays.
T/T integrated seat clamp (strawberry type).
Spanish BB (68mm).
Inegrated headsets.
Internal gusset.

Geometry:
CS-380mm
TT-573mm
HT angle-70deg
size-12".

See it being ridden by Szymon Godziek and a bunch of other shredders: http://www.pinkbike.com/video/100756/




So what do you guys think? I'm having a tough time deciding.

I think the majesty costs more then the cody, but it would equal out because of shipping fare from France if I purchased the Cody. Both have Intergrated Headsets and Spanish BB's so id need a new headset and BB for my profiles. About the same weight, very similar geo, colors don't matter... Can you guys give me some help?

 

[Beast]

So what do you guys think? I'm having a tough time deciding.

I think you should add this to your options:

http://www.ridesuperco.com

Chainstay: 381 mm
Top Tube: 577 mm
Head Angle: 70 degrees
Seat Tube: 247 mm
Seat Angle: 71 degrees effective

Other info:
Integrated headset
Mid bb
2.31 kg
True Temper Supertherm 4130 front, True Temper Platinum 4130 rear
DROP DEAD GORGEOUS

 

[yesimaddicted]

super co.

 

[Savage_Animal]

I looked at it, price is a little hefty. It also looks really freaking awkward in this picture, like a fat guy sat on the seat and the whole frame sunk under his weight or something ahaha.

People aren't winning comps on this either, in fact the only person I know who rides it is that one girl... lol

Any opinions between those two I posted?

 

[TheTruth]

I looked at it, price is a little hefty. It also looks really freaking awkward in this picture, like a fat guy sat on the seat and the whole frame sunk under his weight or something ahaha.

People aren't winning comps on this either, in fact the only person I know who rides it is that one girl... lol

Any opinions between those two I posted?

Wow, that was SuperFicial.

I would get the NS. That is if you don't want the black market contrband. I rode one at a skatepark and it brang a tear to my eye. It was the BEST 24 I have EVER ridden.

 

[Bikael Molton]

those are really light frames. Expect to dent them doing grinds also.

 

[Tetreault]

I'm completely stunned by this post, not to sound like a prick or to try and call someone out, but how has denting a chainstay doing a grind swayed your decision into making a frame change. I have no idea where you'll ever find a frame that wont dent from doing grinds (look at any bmx's chainstays, they are grinded down and dented like crazy, it just happens when metal smashed into an object) the superco and majesty will dent wayyyyy easier than the dobermann, they both use much thinner tubing, and actually, the majesty is truly a "trails" frame similar to how macneil promotes the bibi as a trails frame, because they both use very thin tubing and thus, you will run into problems with denting ect.

as for the geometry and having too short of a top tube, im assuming you got the 21.5" top tube, well if so, that was just a poor decision.

either way im just putting in my experience with these frames, even though it may come across as being ignorant and making me look like a jerk, i can guarentee that if denting is a problem you are having with your dob, the superco and majesty will be far worse.

good luck in your search for a new frame

 

[ServeEm]

wow, you sound like a bitter old man. true denting stays will happen on pretty much any frame from hacked grinds but he mentioned his reasoning was not digging the geo. The dent comment was after deciding to move onto another frame. He's just bummed cuz he was gonna sell it.

 

[Cru Jones]

Both of those frames look dope... I'd choose based on what color you want.

 

[sittingduck]

Who cares about who won a contest on a bike.... get the one that has the geometry you want.
If you base your opinion on who rides what, you should be on a Kona or a Trek.
Get your parents to buy you a Superco or a Tonic. Then at least you can say you have something unique. I'm sure Superco would build you a frame with a taller seat tube if you wanted.

 

[yesimaddicted]

i also realllllly like the way the new jackal rides. try one before you buy is my advice.

 

[Savage_Animal]

I'm completely stunned by this post, not to sound like a prick or to try and call someone out, but how has denting a chainstay doing a grind swayed your decision into making a frame change. I have no idea where you'll ever find a frame that wont dent from doing grinds (look at any bmx's chainstays, they are grinded down and dented like crazy, it just happens when metal smashed into an object) the superco and majesty will dent wayyyyy easier than the dobermann, they both use much thinner tubing, and actually, the majesty is truly a "trails" frame similar to how macneil promotes the bibi as a trails frame, because they both use very thin tubing and thus, you will run into problems with denting ect.

as for the geometry and having too short of a top tube, im assuming you got the 21.5" top tube, well if so, that was just a poor decision.

either way im just putting in my experience with these frames, even though it may come across as being ignorant and making me look like a jerk, i can guarentee that if denting is a problem you are having with your dob, the superco and majesty will be far worse.

good luck in your search for a new frame

Don't get me wrong I loved my Pinscher, leanred a lot of new tricks on it and had a ton of fun riding it in the year that I owned it. I got the 21.5 I personaly talked to a number of other dobermann owners and a representative and they all claimed that the short TT was benificial for spinning and made the bike more "flickable" in their opinion, nobody mentioned it being tooshort. I thought maybe running a 110mm freeride fork messed up the geometry but after trying my old trailblade it was worse. My back doesn't like it much either but thats a whole nother story.

As for the dent, see below. That had nothing to do with my decision. I also fabricated a metal sleeve that goes around that portion of the chainstay so it won't happen again in the future.

wow, you sound like a bitter old man. true denting stays will happen on pretty much any frame from hacked grinds but he mentioned his reasoning was not digging the geo. The dent comment was after deciding to move onto another frame. He's just bummed cuz he was gonna sell it.

Thank you, spot on.

Who cares about who won a contest on a bike.... get the one that has the geometry you want.
If you base your opinion on who rides what, you should be on a Kona or a Trek.
Get your parents to buy you a Superco or a Tonic. Then at least you can say you have something unique. I'm sure Superco would build you a frame with a taller seat tube if you wanted.

"Get the bike with the geometry you want" both the majesty and cody have the geometry I want, so does the superco.. But why would I buy a frame that costs double the others, looks goofy to me, and I haven't seen anyone shredding on it?

Its hard to explain, but i'll give an example. When I was looking for a video camera a few months ago, and I came up with a model number that fit my needs, I would look through vimeo for videos produced with that camera and look at the quality. I would disregaurd that model if I didn't see any high quality videos being produced with it. The same goes for a frame. I just want to see people out there killing it on that frame. Just like I saw people killing it on the dobermann, that particular frame just didn't fit my needs. Like I said its a great frame. So all together its called being a smart consumer. My money will go where I know it will be the best decision.

 

[Savage_Animal]

i also realllllly like the way the new jackal rides. try one before you buy is my advice.

Yeah I checked out Guy French's.

It looks really nice in person, I remember when that thing on littermag came up where they combined the old jackel and the chamilion and Goldman was doing the interview on it. I was SOO stoked on that frame! But unfortunately I'd perfer steel. I went from a P2 back in the day to a suburban and it was like night and day for street riding.

 

[nwd_26]

I have a Majesty and I love it. It's taken a few full-on hammer hits without being dented (don't ask...), which is amazing for a 4.8 pound frame. Needless to say, unlike a Dobermann this frame can also stand up to my ass.

That said, based purely on who rides what, the Dartmoor is also being ridden by Alexey Sinayko, who in my opinion is among the elite level of street riders, along with Vishneviy, Matt McDuff, and Fedotov.

And Frankie Vass Left the Dobermann team and bought a Superco with his own money, so I don't know what you're talking about saying no-one pro-star rides a Superco.

So if you want the best performing frame on those standards, buy a 24" wheelset and a Mob frame, because that's where both Vishneviy AND McDuff came from.

 

[nwd_26]

i can guarentee that if denting is a problem you are having with your dob, the superco and majesty will be far worse.

good luck in your search for a new frame

Can you though? My friend dented his Pinscher with his ass (literally), I haven't dented my Majesty with a hammer. So.....

 

[joelalamo45]

That Dartmoor is pretty sick looking...

 

[Savage_Animal]

I have a Majesty and I love it. It's taken a few full-on hammer hits without being dented (don't ask...), which is amazing for a 4.8 pound frame. Needless to say, unlike a Dobermann this frame can also stand up to my ass.

That said, based purely on who rides what, the Dartmoor is also being ridden by Alexey Sinayko, who in my opinion is among the elite level of street riders, along with Vishneviy, Matt McDuff, and Fedotov.

And Frankie Vass Left the Dobermann team and bought a Superco with his own money, so I don't know what you're talking about saying no-one pro-star rides a Superco.

So if you want the best performing frame on those standards, buy a 24" wheelset and a Mob frame, because that's where both Vishneviy AND McDuff came from.

Oooo your right I just looked that up Vass is freaking killing it on his superco. Just hadn't heard anything about that frame in a while. I don't even think its changed since 2008, not that that matters tho, the dob hasn't changed either. Just don't think that frame is right for me.
Funny funny, I also came from a p2 with 10 pound wheels.

In any case im leaning a lot towards the dartmoor. Its not much different in terms of geo from the maj and im digging the seat clamp and how rare it is in America.

That Dartmoor is pretty sick looking...

 

[sittingduck]

Its hard to explain, but i'll give an example. When I was looking for a video camera a few months ago, and I came up with a model number that fit my needs, I would look through vimeo for videos produced with that camera and look at the quality. I would disregaurd that model if I didn't see any high quality videos being produced with it. The same goes for a frame. I just want to see people out there killing it on that frame. Just like I saw people killing it on the dobermann, that particular frame just didn't fit my needs. Like I said its a great frame. So all together its called being a smart consumer. My money will go where I know it will be the best decision.

At the level of riding you're talking about, those guys mostly ride whatever pays the most... Look at what Bass, Lacondeguy, AT, Seminuk, Boyko, etc. are riding.... I'm just saying, don't put too much emphasis on who rides what, because it's not going to give you anything much beyond being able to say "so-and-so rides the same bike as mine".

 

[v-digit]

Who cares about who won a contest on a bike.... get the one that has the geometry you want.
If you base your opinion on who rides what, you should be on a Kona or a Trek.
Get your parents to buy you a Superco or a Tonic. Then at least you can say you have something unique. I'm sure Superco would build you a frame with a taller seat tube if you wanted.

superco and tonic would most def dent to **** under any sort of griding....

tonic specifically says not for grinding....

 

[tmx]

I'm completely stunned by this post, not to sound like a prick or to try and call someone out, but how has denting a chainstay doing a grind swayed your decision into making a frame change. I have no idea where you'll ever find a frame that wont dent from doing grinds (look at any bmx's chainstays, they are grinded down and dented like crazy, it just happens when metal smashed into an object) the superco and majesty will dent wayyyyy easier than the dobermann, they both use much thinner tubing, and actually, the majesty is truly a "trails" frame similar to how macneil promotes the bibi as a trails frame, because they both use very thin tubing and thus, you will run into problems with denting ect.

as for the geometry and having too short of a top tube, im assuming you got the 21.5" top tube, well if so, that was just a poor decision.

either way im just putting in my experience with these frames, even though it may come across as being ignorant and making me look like a jerk, i can guarentee that if denting is a problem you are having with your dob, the superco and majesty will be far worse.

good luck in your search for a new frame

Hey Tanner, your assumption about the Superco being more fragile than the Dobermann or anything else out there could not be further from the truth.

Not sure if Frankie Vass still has his Superco, nor have we had an update from him in quite a while. But he was one of our first customers back in 2008 and last we heard (maybe a year and a half into his ownership) he assured us those fierce CS grinds he pulls were not damaging the frame and the only sign of the grind was scratched paint.

We don't know the current condition of his frame but surely you must agree that 1-1/2 years of beating the crap out of those CS & DO's without damage beyond paint is impressive.

For the record and despite the success Frankie had with his Charger, Superco does not recommend grinds (or pegs for the one guy out there who might be wondering.)

The Superco's are 9th generation HTs from Doc, who is an exceptionally meticulous and methodical builder with a scientific mind and ridiculously high standards as a rider. He has a well-earned global reputation for building high performance cutting-edge frames that last. He's been designing, hand building and riding HTs since 1996, with over two decades experience competing in BMX and Trials at an elite level before that. (Mte Ste Anne Grundig World Cup Trials champ in 1992.)

It's not by chance, luck or hype that an overwhelming majority of people who ride a Superco claim that it's raised their skill and enjoyment of riding exponentially.

Perfectly understandable if the original post'er isn't interested in spending the money on a handcrafted high end US-made frame that looks funny to him and has not yet been entered in (thus won) any high profile comps. Perfectly confusing how you've made this erroneous assumption about our frames then state it here as fact.

Please don't hesitate to let us know if you have any questions to help clear up your misunderstandings about the quality of our craftsmanship or utilization of the high end tubing we use.

Terry at Superco
ride@ridesuperco.com

 

[sittingduck]

The Superco's are 9th generation HTs from Doc, who is an exceptionally meticulous and methodical builder with a scientific mind and ridiculously high standards as a rider. He has a well-earned global reputation for building high performance cutting-edge frames that last. He's been designing, hand building and riding HTs since 1996, with over two decades experience competing in BMX and Trials at an elite level before that. (Mte Ste Anne Grundig World Cup Trials champ in 1992.)

It's not by chance, luck or hype that an overwhelming majority of people who ride a Superco claim that it's raised their skill and enjoyment of riding exponentially.

I wanted one before..... I REALLY want one now.

 

[ServeEm]

very well put Terry

 

[nwd_26]

Frankie rides for Transition now, so he's on a TOP. Must suck to go from a Charger to a TOP, but he's good enough to rock it I guess.

 

[Tetreault]

he assured us those fierce CS grinds he pulls were not damaging the frame and the only sign of the grind was scratched paint.

We don't know the current condition of his frame but surely you must agree that 1-1/2 years of beating the crap out of those CS & DO's without damage beyond paint is impressive.

For the record and despite the success Frankie had with his Charger, Superco does not recommend grinds (or pegs for the one guy out there who might be wondering.)

do super co's use standard tubing from true temper or do you guys have custom tubes manufactured, only reason im asking is because i've been on quite a few frames with true temper tubes over the years, and have never really ran into any major problems, but i attribute that to the tubing itself and not so much the welder and frame manufacturer, if welds or machining are not up to par, well then i more or less attribute that the the manufacturer.

The small diameter stays (both seat and chain) lead me to believe that they would be more easily manipulated by grinding ect, (unless they are extremely thick) that being said i suppose smaller stays allow for less area to come into contact with a ledge and thus may miss being hit many of the times.

Not that im questioning superco's quality and credibility, i accquired last spring about getting one, but the price was too high for me, especially when i couldn't get shop price on one at the shop i work at

 

[tmx]

do super co's use standard tubing from true temper or do you guys have custom tubes manufactured, only reason im asking is because i've been on quite a few frames with true temper tubes over the years, and have never really ran into any major problems, but i attribute that to the tubing itself and not so much the welder and frame manufacturer, if welds or machining are not up to par, well then i more or less attribute that the the manufacturer.

The small diameter stays (both seat and chain) lead me to believe that they would be more easily manipulated by grinding ect, (unless they are extremely thick) that being said i suppose smaller stays allow for less area to come into contact with a ledge and thus may miss being hit many of the times.

Not that im questioning superco's quality and credibility, i accquired last spring about getting one, but the price was too high for me, especially when i couldn't get shop price on one at the shop i work at

The True Temper tubes we use are stock items that we get directly from True Temper. They produce a wide range of diameters, lengths and butt profiles which cover our dimensional requirements. So custom drawn tubes are not required.

The stays we use on our hardtails will likely handle impacts and abrasions from grinding better than standard straight gage 4130. The tapered stays are thicker where they are smaller, as they approach the dropout. The smaller diameter tube with a thicker wall will resist denting much better than a bigger OD thinner walled tube. The True Temper material has a much higher tensile strength and elastic modulus and it is “air hardening” which increases impact strength by an additional 20% roughly.

While we're happy to answer more questions, perhaps you can pose them in a new thread or through email so we don't continue to derail this thread.

 

[COB]

The Blk Market Mob needs to be added to your list. The best overall bike for the type of riding you will be doing. I ride one and I love it, it will improve your riding tremendously.

MOB

 

[v-digit]

The Blk Market Mob needs to be added to your list. The best overall bike for the type of riding you will be doing. I ride one and I love it, it will improve your riding tremendously.

MOB

everyone has a mob, at least here in US, i think he's looking for something a lil more exotic

 

[Savage_Animal]

Hey sorry about my comments on the super Co, that was pretty ignorant of me. I'm sure its a great frame and I would love a chance to test one out some day, but like i said its not for me.

And thanks cob, you def seem pretty happy with your Mob. Heard only good things about them. I looked into that frame a long time ago but determined it wasn't what I was looking for either. Not to bash your ride but v-digits got part of it right, but i also rode one a while ago and it felt pretty natual. I'm digging how they come in 22.5 TT, I'll keep my option open. If it comes down to it i'll probly go with one of the other ones though.

 

[joelalamo45]

dude buy the dartmoor already. I wanna see one another one built up

 

[Luckynumber13]

kinda funny how youre only looking at polish frames

the dartmoor looks super sick and its super light too
and alexey is amazing:
http://www.pinkbike.com/video/102601/

why not just get a bigger dob?

 

[v-digit]

kinda funny how youre only looking at polish frames

the dartmoor looks super sick and its super light too
and alexey is amazing:
http://www.pinkbike.com/video/102601/

why not just get a bigger dob?

that clip is giga sweet. russians are killin it.

 

[Tetreault]

has a decision been made yet?

 

[Savage_Animal]

So hey guys, im like 90% sure Im going to purchase the dartmoor... just waiting for it to get in stock.

 

[sethius]

Nice choice man: they are really starting to sell well here in Australia, got our Aussie Dartmoor rider Billy Hindmarsh throwing 720s and all kinds of nuts stuff down on his 09 one: should be 60secs with him on PB showing off some new moves.

Also had the national Dj comp best trick here was won on a Dartmoor brooke: really proving to be top frames that the guys know how to handle, haven't had a issue with strength or paint quality either, the metallic finish has been tops.

Rick (Aus importer for Dartmoor etc)

If you've got any questions about Dartmoor gear feel free to shoot them over.

 

[Savage_Animal]

Nice choice man: they are really starting to sell well here in Australia, got our Aussie Dartmoor rider Billy Hindmarsh throwing 720s and all kinds of nuts stuff down on his 09 one: should be 60secs with him on PB showing off some new moves.

Also had the national Dj comp best trick here was won on a Dartmoor brooke: really proving to be top frames that the guys know how to handle, haven't had a issue with strength or paint quality either, the metallic finish has been tops.

Rick (Aus importer for Dartmoor etc)

If you've got any questions about Dartmoor gear feel free to shoot them over.

Awesome thats what I want to hear! I do have one question tho, how the hell do I get this frame in the states!? hahaha Ordering from an over seas distruber isn't gonna be cheap. Plus only two of these online shops that carry dartmoor products are actualy in english...

 

[RayB]

Awesome thats what I want to hear! I do have one question tho, how the hell do I get this frame in the states!? hahaha Ordering from an over seas distruber isn't gonna be cheap. Plus only two of these online shops that carry dartmoor products are actualy in english...

Those I know who have bought unique/boutique frames from overseas have had great luck simply emailing the company. Might wanna give that a try.


And that video of Alexey is insane. The Russian brakeless scene is blowing up!

 

[quickneonrt]

funny i don't get people wanting frames from overseas and are hard to get. Good luck if there is a problem with it.
At least stay in N. America. I would take a SuperCo over any of those frames any day. Remember where Doc left from the original Brooklyns were great. The Park frame was years ahead of it's time. To bad bmw changed their priorities to the trendy and did a bad job at it. The ACL would have been a great frame.

 

[v-digit]

funny i don't get people wanting frames from overseas and are hard to get.

the same reason why people want maserati and aston martins as opposed to corvettes or even a re-released gt40

 

[quickneonrt]

the same reason why people want maserati and aston martins as opposed to corvettes or even a re-released gt40

I guess its funny because the GT40 was an animal compared to an aston or maserati.

Same way a Superco is superior to an NS or a dartmoor.
But heck what do I know. I guess you have to be a NYer to know how great Brooklyn was when Doc was there and before they sold out to the hipsters.
Would be nice if Superco built Anson's frame but unfortunately the uneducated would probably still buy that pos contraband.

 

[sethius]

Awesome thats what I want to hear! I do have one question tho, how the hell do I get this frame in the states!? hahaha Ordering from an over seas distruber isn't gonna be cheap. Plus only two of these online shops that carry dartmoor products are actualy in english...

The 2010 frames should be out in March: if you're genuinely keen send me a PM.

edit: for those of you asking about DM to my inbox: email info@fearlesscycles.com.au