Dessous by Vorsprung Suspension
- Thread starter Mo(n)arch
- Start date
Oh snap! Gotta get one at 150cdn. For the 'muricans, it's like 58 bucks.
that's great! Should make an awesome improvement on the rather mediocre float series.
Nice...
I don't understand how it works. I thought a larger volume can would lead to a more wallowy ride, which is why we have volume reducers. But this is telling me that a higher volume will have better mid-stroke support. There's obviously something I'm missing.
I think it's the larger negative spring (like the debonair) that lowers the initial spring rate and allows you to tune for better midstroke performance, rather than ignoring the initial spring rate and focusing on bottom out.
From the PB comments:
VorsprungSuspension (7 hours ago)
It's all to do with the ratios and volumes of positive and negative chambers, and where they equalise. By manipulating those values, we can change the rate at which the negative spring pressure drops early in the travel, which is what controls the early stroke and is really the defining point of these sleeves. It doesn't affect the damping - that is completely separate.
VorsprungSuspension (7 hours ago)
It's all to do with the ratios and volumes of positive and negative chambers, and where they equalise. By manipulating those values, we can change the rate at which the negative spring pressure drops early in the travel, which is what controls the early stroke and is really the defining point of these sleeves. It doesn't affect the damping - that is completely separate.
well. $120, which is still not bad if it can deliver on all those claims.
That modified spring rate looks really promising for an air shock. I think I'll test dummy one of these.
I would love to hear more about what this will actually do:
- More mid-stroke support
- No more wallowy midstroke
One thing I have on my Float is I have to run higher pressure to avoid it blowing through travel when pedaling through rocky section and just stay more stable low speed technical situations. Not sure if that is what they promise with the above statements.
It kind sounds like that is what they are trying to achieve (from answer in the Pink Bike Pres Release:
"Because of the more linear overall nature of this spring (start to end) you have more of a usable range of sag before the thing gets harsh or excessively wallowy"
- More mid-stroke support
- No more wallowy midstroke
One thing I have on my Float is I have to run higher pressure to avoid it blowing through travel when pedaling through rocky section and just stay more stable low speed technical situations. Not sure if that is what they promise with the above statements.
It kind sounds like that is what they are trying to achieve (from answer in the Pink Bike Pres Release:
"Because of the more linear overall nature of this spring (start to end) you have more of a usable range of sag before the thing gets harsh or excessively wallowy"
Last edited:
I've got a couple on the way for review in two different types of frames (a VPP and a dw-link), will post up my thoughts on here once I've had my way with them. Knowing Steve, they'll do exactly what they claim, but riding coil exclusively in all my bikes at the moment I'll have pretty high standards as well.
CBJ - from the graphs, these sleeves should provide the float with two key things over stock:
1. Lower spring rate in the first ~10% of travel, eliminating most air spring harshness
2. Slightly higher spring rate in middle of stroke and end of stroke, thus more support where needed
I think 1. is the biggest issue on air shocks, and a big reason why there is a need to run lower than ideal pressure (and support as a result) to get reasonable sensitivity and bump absorption. While these cans will give you a little more midstroke support anyway, a bigger benefit should be that you can run the amount of pressure for the level of midstroke support you desire without really sacrificing sensitivity and bump absorption in the earlier stroke.
I can't speak for your scenario personally, but I know with air shocks I always end up running them a bit softer than ideal (and thus with a wallowy midstroke) to compensate for the initial harshness that gets worse if I set it up for the support I want. I expect these will eliminate or greatly reduce that compromise. I'll comment on how well they did once I get my hands on them.
CBJ - from the graphs, these sleeves should provide the float with two key things over stock:
1. Lower spring rate in the first ~10% of travel, eliminating most air spring harshness
2. Slightly higher spring rate in middle of stroke and end of stroke, thus more support where needed
I think 1. is the biggest issue on air shocks, and a big reason why there is a need to run lower than ideal pressure (and support as a result) to get reasonable sensitivity and bump absorption. While these cans will give you a little more midstroke support anyway, a bigger benefit should be that you can run the amount of pressure for the level of midstroke support you desire without really sacrificing sensitivity and bump absorption in the earlier stroke.
I can't speak for your scenario personally, but I know with air shocks I always end up running them a bit softer than ideal (and thus with a wallowy midstroke) to compensate for the initial harshness that gets worse if I set it up for the support I want. I expect these will eliminate or greatly reduce that compromise. I'll comment on how well they did once I get my hands on them.
It does seems like it would be what I am looking for. Unfortunately the GT Sensor runs a 7.25"x1.75" which I do not see as an option on their chart.
Is this one any different that the protos floating around that fox has been planning on making?
Good timing since they're lagging.
edit: just went back and looked, this one looks like a more extreme version neg/pos ratio-wise. Eh?
Regardless though......"corset"
Good timing since they're lagging.
edit: just went back and looked, this one looks like a more extreme version neg/pos ratio-wise. Eh?
Regardless though......"corset"
Last edited:
This looks very good, perhaps it is worth keeping and upgrading an old RP23 on my wife's bike now. Does the neg chamber have any direct effect on the mid-stroke or is it all a function of being able to run higher pressures without being concerned about the initial stroke?
PS: Apologies to Udi for unknowingly slapping him with a dislike. Must be my princess fingers in this frozen hell.
PS: Apologies to Udi for unknowingly slapping him with a dislike. Must be my princess fingers in this frozen hell.
Not being a suspension guru, will this negatively effect any type of suspension?
The Float on my Banshee Spitfire (version 2) is a tough cookie to setup. Sometimes it feels good, other times it feels like I'm riding with a flat tire. I feel like I have to either run it with too much air pressure so the bike sits correctly or if I want it to actually work, use too little pressure, which then makes it sag like my DH bike.
I guess for the price I should just get one and try it now.
The Float on my Banshee Spitfire (version 2) is a tough cookie to setup. Sometimes it feels good, other times it feels like I'm riding with a flat tire. I feel like I have to either run it with too much air pressure so the bike sits correctly or if I want it to actually work, use too little pressure, which then makes it sag like my DH bike.
I guess for the price I should just get one and try it now.
maybe if you have a steeply progressive shock rate in the first third, like some of DW's designs? they are deeply progressive to get over the initial stiction, then linearize to take advantage of an air shock's natural ramp.
I feel like this is much more advantageous for bikes that are a little more regular.
I feel like this is much more advantageous for bikes that are a little more regular.
Vorsprung suspension, nice initiative!
Indeed the curve is quite more linear especially initially compared to fox.
Indeed the curve is quite more linear especially initially compared to fox.
Just put my order in. I'm hoping it helps my setup and gets one more season of riding out of the trail bike. I'm liking the idea of a higher negative pressure and more mid stroke support. The only issue is the increase in main air pressure... we'll see what happens.
well, well, well. interesting timing.
http://m.pinkbike.com/news/sneak-peek-fox-prototype-air-shock.html
http://m.pinkbike.com/news/sneak-peek-fox-prototype-air-shock.html
candamos,Not being a suspension guru, will this negatively effect any type of suspension?
The Float on my Banshee Spitfire (version 2) is a tough cookie to setup. Sometimes it feels good, other times it feels like I'm riding with a flat tire. I feel like I have to either run it with too much air pressure so the bike sits correctly or if I want it to actually work, use too little pressure, which then makes it sag like my DH bike.
I guess for the price I should just get one and try it now.
I have a Spitfire V2 that came with a Fox Float Crappy Terrible Disappointment (with Kashmir!). It took me three or four rides to figure out it is in fact the giant steaming pile of shit that everyone says it is. I replaced it with a a Monarch Debonair which is better in every possible way - makes the Float seem like a bad joke, and I can't figure out why manufactures continue to spec this shit when a better shock makes their frame ride so much better. If the Corset sleeve is anything like, or better than a Monarch, it would probably be the best money you can spend on your bike.
^^^ Same bike same shock same impressions of the CTD. If I didn't have a CCDB I'd have ordered one of these things. Hope Steve sells a boatload of them.
Thanks for the input. It always felt like I was chasing what felt "right". One day it was great and usable, the next it would be like a pogo or something. Oh well. I will probably get this and try it out.
I'm guessing Fox has a better buy factor for some reason. Colours and looks do wonders..
I've always felt the same way about the Float RP23 on my Spitfire V2 as well. Getting this air can is a lot cheaper than a new shock, so I think I'm going to try it as well.
got mine installed. haven't ridden it yet, but bouncing on the thing, it's significantly more supple off the top. coil-esque, even. looking forward to giving it a go.
By the time I ordered mine I was told it would take at a week because of the unforeseen high demand. Mine will be going on a clapped out Scott Ransom that currently has a DHX Air tuned by Avalanche.
Very curious how this will affect VPP. I am currently in the market for a suspension upgrade from my RP23 and was considering the CCDB Inline, I just noticed this a few days ago. The fact its a quarter of the price is what has my eyes glued for a real world review.
That could be a pretty interesting shock, some kind of frankenshock with the corset air can and a external low speed via avalanche...
Unrideable.
just throw your bike in the trash