see now that's strange, i went to school out there and rode BB a bit and never ever got arm pump, but back here on the east coast i get it really bad...must be the death grip
Eliminating arm pump
- Thread starter - seb
- Start date
My friends dad reccomended that exercise for arm wrestling, he said its the best way to work out your wrist. According to him, its very popular in prison.Originally posted by RhinofromWA
On dirt bikes I would get arm pump bad:
1- at a begining of a long race....usually nerves making me grip the bars to tight...I would ride like a stick figure until I could relax. Then the pump goes away.
2- MX..Never was comfortable with that stuff.
My main forearm pump seem to be caused by being to tense....so the need to relax and enjoy the ride paid off in comfort and speed in the long run.
We made a simple forearm exercise with a dowel, rope, and a weight. You hold the dowel like a handlebar and work weight up and down by turning the stick with your wrists holding it out in front of you. It worked my forearms more than any spring squeezy thing or ball I have tried.
You can adjust the wieghts to increase and decrease the load on your arms.....
Rhino
I'm no expert in this subject, but there are a couple things that could really help.
http://www.hopey.org/
and
http://www.vitalityweb.com/backstore/ems.htm I have a much larger one that plugs into a wall socket. I used to have cronic back and neck muscle problems. Nothing has helped more than my EMS. I've also used it after a good workout on major muscle groups to help them recover faster with great sucess. I'm just now experimenting with it for my Carpal problem ... too early to tell.
http://www.hopey.org/
and
http://www.vitalityweb.com/backstore/ems.htm I have a much larger one that plugs into a wall socket. I used to have cronic back and neck muscle problems. Nothing has helped more than my EMS. I've also used it after a good workout on major muscle groups to help them recover faster with great sucess. I'm just now experimenting with it for my Carpal problem ... too early to tell.
lactic acid
so get yourself to the gym
so get yourself to the gym
being a climber for 3 years, ive learned a bit about arm pump.. i can climb a route that takes 5 minutes, the majority of which i could be hanging all of my body weight on my hands, and not be half as pumped at the end as the 2.5 minute dh course i did in arkansas.. i attribute most of this to shock setup.. i was running a dirt jumper II and i think we all know that the valving on this fork isnt quite adequate.
the "science" behind arm pump, as i understand it, has to do with the veins that let blood flow back out of the muscle. when you overgrip, the muscle is so tense it restricts these veins, and the muscle blows up like a balloon, further restricting veins. you end up with the snowball effect. climbers train to defeat arm pump by climbing. endurance stuff. traversing is popular (as opposed to climbin vertically) because you can stay on the wall for an hour at a time.. over time(usually after a year or so of climbing it's noticeable), the vein size increases, and the arm pump is much less of an issue. also, as you grow stronger, you dont have to work the muscle as much to hang on.
if you want to get a training aid, the power-ball someone posted earlier is by far the best one. most hand excercisers put your fingers through a relatively large range of motion.. this isnt what happens when you go down a DH course, and therefore not a good way to train. you want to use something that lets you close your hand around it (similar to a handlebar) and grip tightly, making small adjustments.. this is exactly what happens with the dyna-flex. i have one, and the damn thing is amazing.
the "science" behind arm pump, as i understand it, has to do with the veins that let blood flow back out of the muscle. when you overgrip, the muscle is so tense it restricts these veins, and the muscle blows up like a balloon, further restricting veins. you end up with the snowball effect. climbers train to defeat arm pump by climbing. endurance stuff. traversing is popular (as opposed to climbin vertically) because you can stay on the wall for an hour at a time.. over time(usually after a year or so of climbing it's noticeable), the vein size increases, and the arm pump is much less of an issue. also, as you grow stronger, you dont have to work the muscle as much to hang on.
if you want to get a training aid, the power-ball someone posted earlier is by far the best one. most hand excercisers put your fingers through a relatively large range of motion.. this isnt what happens when you go down a DH course, and therefore not a good way to train. you want to use something that lets you close your hand around it (similar to a handlebar) and grip tightly, making small adjustments.. this is exactly what happens with the dyna-flex. i have one, and the damn thing is amazing.
I didn't read the posts, but rock climb. Arm pump became a distant memory after doing it for 3 months. Try that, amazingly good cross-training, except too much cycling could make your legs heavy....I regress. Try it or something that utilizes similar muscles. Climbing is more fun than squeezing a ball though, c'mon.
Bigger grips will cure the issue slightly.
hmm...I thought that would make it worse
Ride some Ruffians at Northstar, then ride some Rogues.Originally posted by BMXman
hmm...I thought that would make it worse
What is arm pump?
all i can figure from reading the thread..... is it like when you do lots of weightlifting (perhaps too much?) and your forearms feel like they are permanently flexed, making arm and hand movements retarded?
all i can figure from reading the thread..... is it like when you do lots of weightlifting (perhaps too much?) and your forearms feel like they are permanently flexed, making arm and hand movements retarded?
I use to ride Oury grips and I would get pump all the time...I switched over to Ruffians and the problem stopped...something about being able to close your hand more...I can't remember exactly but maybe it depends on the person...D
we know why you bought it:
Watch out for the forearm straps too. Also, I don't think it's fat grips that are the problem. It's fat, SOFT grips that cause arm pump. Big marshmallows like Ourys make it feel like you're never really connected to the bars, causing you to grip harder.
I used to get wicked arm pump, but then as I got faster I stopped using my brakes and that helped a lot. I use small diameter grips and one-finger brake also. Also, I have one of those old-fashioned hand-squeezer things and that helps a lot too. I use it when Im bored. That gyro thing looks sick. Im going to try that.
Dave
Dave
Seems to have helped me the most, also I went from elbow pads to a RG suit which uses a lot less straping to keep the pads in place which whould help blood flow.
That is where learned it.......
It is about the fascia or the sheath not the veins. here is an excerpt from an article I posted a link to on page 2 of this thread.
"THE IMPORTANCE OF THE FASCIA
Muscles are often found together in "fascial compartments." Fascial compartments contain muscle wrapped in a layer of "fascia." Fascia is a tough, but thin, white gristle that envelops the compartment like a casing wraps a sausage. Fascia helps to anchor muscles and give them form. Fascia is very strong, but it is not very elastic. The inelasticity of fascia surrounding muscle means that even small increases in the volume of a fascial compartment can cause large pressure increases within the compartment.
FOREARM DESIGN
The forearm has two sides, the palm side (called the "volar" side), and the backside (called the "dorsal side"). The muscles on the palm side of the forearm bend (flex) the fingers and wrist. The muscles on the backside of the forearm straighten (extend) the fingers and wrist. When you grab your bars, notice how the
muscles on both sides of the forearm tighten. The palm muscles are bending your fingers to grip the bars and the backside muscles are holding your wrist stable.
HOW ARM PUMP HAPPENS
During vigorous exercise, muscles require a tremendous amount of oxygen-rich blood and commonly increase in volume by up to 20 percent. The engorged muscle is encased inside the inelastic fascia and, as it grows, the pressure within the fascia compartment increases. Although gases and solids are compressible, fluids are not. The incompressible fluid within the inelastic fascia makes the forearm feel hard as rock.
If the "compartment pressure" rises high enough, blood vessels can collapse, which restricts or stops the flow through that vessel. Veins, with their low pressure and thin walls, collapse earlier than high-pressure, thick-walled arteries. When veinous flow reduces, arterial blood continues to enter the fascial compartment but is restricted from leaving. This restricted outflow further increases the pressure within the fascia compartment. If the compartment pressure rises higher than the pressure in the capillaries, or even the arteries, then these vessels may collapse, resulting in "muscle ischemia"a painful condition of oxygen deprivation. Muscle ischemia leads to even higher compartment pressures.
Most of the studies related to high compartment pressure (what motocrossers know as arm pump) have been documented in the lower legs of distance runners. Only a few cases have been described in the hands, feet, thigh, elbow, and forearm. The condition is called various names, including "chronic compartment syndrome," "effort-related compartment syndrome," "exercise-induced compartment syndrome," or "chronic exertional compartment syndrome." Motocross arm pump is technically known as "chronic compartment syndrome of the forearm," (CCSF). All of the names seek to differentiate this condition from the much more dangerous condition of "acute compartment syndrome" (the kind Larry Brooks had).
WHAT DOCTORS DONT KNOW
Despite the limitations of medical literature, we all know that chronic compartment syndrome of the forearm in motocrossers is common. Probably more common than chronic compartment syndrome of the leg in long distance runners.
Why is it more common? The higher incidence in motocross is related to the fact that forearm muscles only get blood flow during relaxation. NASA performed a study of forearm muscle blood flow in 1996. While studying normal volunteers they found "... a significant reduction in muscle oxygenation even at levels as low as 10 percent maximal contraction." This explains why we pump up less when we relax, move our fingers and unclench our hands. Thus, we pump up more on race day because forearm muscles only get blood flow when they are relaxed--and they arent that relaxed while racing."
Blood flow does have something to do with it and I agree that fitness is the best solution. As mentioned brake lever positioning is key as is suspension tuning.
it's about both.. from your own post : Veins, with their low pressure and thin walls, collapse earlier than high-pressure, thick-walled arteries. When veinous flow reduces, arterial blood continues to enter the fascial compartment but is restricted from leaving. This restricted outflow further increases the pressure within the fascia compartment. If the compartment pressure rises higher than the pressure in the capillaries, or even the arteries, then these vessels may collapse, resulting in "muscle ischemia"a painful condition of oxygen deprivation.
actually, i'd consider it more about the veins than the fascia, as it's when the veins collapse that everything gets REALLY ****ty...
aka the snowball effect..
good article though.
Brake lever placement - height/angle and distance from bars. running the levers "in" more if you are having to brake a lot helps.
also, the grip squeeze exercises are good as well as working the forearms... i have one of these for that, and I've not had the arm pump problems that i did in the past.
also, the grip squeeze exercises are good as well as working the forearms... i have one of these for that, and I've not had the arm pump problems that i did in the past.
Attachments
neaky: Yeah it was for "arm pump"..........
LOL
Definitely lever position for me, Hayes sometimes vibrate "out" too far for my hands and I get nasty pump until I bring them back in all the way.
How can anyone say one grip or another is better without mentioning that it depends on how big your hands are?
May I say it depends on how big your hands are.
Buy a Dirtbike, move to some location where the legal dirtbike trails are constant rock gardens and ride a lot.
or
Move close to a DH resort, get a job close by and DH every day.
Then of course theres the MX technique of surgery to have the sheath removed from your forearms as Shaun Palmer did a couple years ago.
or
Move close to a DH resort, get a job close by and DH every day.
Then of course theres the MX technique of surgery to have the sheath removed from your forearms as Shaun Palmer did a couple years ago.
The I get backachesBrian HCM#1 said:
Where might one look to get one of those?DHRacer said:
Word bro, I bought one of those as I phucked up my wrist a year ago. Any drop and my wrist kills me. I use this dynoball and I feels like I whacked off for 8 hours straight. Does your whole arm too.DHCorky said:I do not think anything beats time on the bike.
A coworker that does a lot of climbing and paddaling brought in this gyro thing he has. Within 2 mintues of using it my forearm felt like I just finished riding a DH course. I will be getting one of these in the near future.
Here is a link to one of these Gyros: http://www.dynaflexstore.com/product.asp?0=203&1=204&3=11
All you do is get it spining then hold it in your hand. Then you have to keep your wrist rotating and moving to keep the gyro going. It is also weighted so that the entire time it is off balance in your hand so you are having to hold it steady.
Knuckle
From my experience lifting heavy weights and getting big makes you get arm pump and cramp up more easily in general. Exercise with lots of reps, like the squeeze balls and dowel with weight combo make the arm pump better.
The easiest remedy for me though is some Goody's Headache powder (basically crushed up aspirin with some caffeine too) Take one or two packets of Goody's before a run and you will feel no arm pump at all!
(just be carefull to check yourself out after a crash, one time I cut a gash in my leg after a big fall, hopped on my bike and rode the rest of the run, only to see I had a huge gash in my leg, the goodies along with my adrenolin rush and I didn't even notice the gash under my knee pad that took 19 stitches to fix)
The easiest remedy for me though is some Goody's Headache powder (basically crushed up aspirin with some caffeine too) Take one or two packets of Goody's before a run and you will feel no arm pump at all!
(just be carefull to check yourself out after a crash, one time I cut a gash in my leg after a big fall, hopped on my bike and rode the rest of the run, only to see I had a huge gash in my leg, the goodies along with my adrenolin rush and I didn't even notice the gash under my knee pad that took 19 stitches to fix)
As mentioned above, Dyna-Flex: http://www.dynaflex-intl.com/gyro_info.htm
I started using one over 20 years ago for pitching, motocross, and various forms of martial arts. There was a huge difference in all areas related to hand/forearm strength and stamina.
As you would imagine, the one I had was thrown out many years ago. I never thought about it until I started FR a few years ago, and finally found/bought one last year. It's right above my computer . . . been there for a couple of months since last use . . . ok, ok - I guess I'll pick it up and start to address the arm pump problem I had last ride . . .
I started using one over 20 years ago for pitching, motocross, and various forms of martial arts. There was a huge difference in all areas related to hand/forearm strength and stamina.
As you would imagine, the one I had was thrown out many years ago. I never thought about it until I started FR a few years ago, and finally found/bought one last year. It's right above my computer . . . been there for a couple of months since last use . . . ok, ok - I guess I'll pick it up and start to address the arm pump problem I had last ride . . .
Damn, I finally just read this thread. Anyways when I was at Snowshoe a couple of weeks ago this racer Trevyn had his levers setup this way. I gave it a try and it helped dramatically with arm pump. It made it much easier to to ride relaxed and not so tense.Jm_ said:
I also found by softening the suspension a bit helped me to ride with a more relaxed grip on the bars which helped the arms (and made it easier to ride in general).
-Setup your brake levers close to the bar, and angled juuust right.
-Avoid gripping the bars too tightly. (This helped me loosen up my riding in general, actually.)
-Try not to drag the brakes when you don't absolutely have to. (Once again, this helped my riding.)
It's worked for me. I got bad arm pump a few times last year but it's pretty much gone away.
-Avoid gripping the bars too tightly. (This helped me loosen up my riding in general, actually.)
-Try not to drag the brakes when you don't absolutely have to. (Once again, this helped my riding.)
It's worked for me. I got bad arm pump a few times last year but it's pretty much gone away.
One other thing not mentioned here, but (for me at least) equally important is GLOVE FIT. I rode with some shatty Fox gloves for 1/2 a season suffering nasty arm pump on virtually every ride - switched to some Oakley's and the pump was immediately gone. Since then, I'd rather ride sans gloves than with poor fitting ones.
Ride MX, that'll fix your forarms up good.