Frame choice for Endurance Events

indieboy · Oct 21, 2002

Originally posted by Yankee Tim
I'm currently riding an aluminum hardtail. I'm looking into upgrading my frame when I can afford it. I have a few questions if you guys don't mind giving your opinions.

I'm getting more into riding and racing longer format events. 6 hour, 12 hour, 24 hour races and longer rides. Maybe even try a couple 60+ mile events.

My aluminum hardtail is a little harsh on my body with longer events.

I'm really a hardtail kind of guy. So, I'm pretty much set on a hardtail but some of the soft tails I have been looking at may be an option.

I love the characteristics of a hardtail. Climbing, handling, acceleration, etc. I've ridden full suspensions and I just can't get used to their active rear travel.

So, what do you guys think? What do you ride? Would a steel or titanium hardtail work for endurance racing? Would a soft tail be a better choice?

Thanks for your feedback.

steel is just sweet dude. i've had both and i've loved both. if you don't have the money then go w/ a steel hard tail. not much beats a GOOD steal hardtail. now a ****ty one is a different story as w/ any bike. and even w/ ti frames, trust me Ti fits into that catagory too, there are some SHIIIIIIIIIETY ti frames out there. soft tails aren't really necessary if you get a bike that is built correctly.

JMAC · Oct 22, 2002

If i mainly did long races like your talking about i do some but mainly 25km XC races. I'd get either a Cannondale Scalple Tinker rides one and he's always win 24 hours.
I also think a TREK STP i think thats what it's called you know the carbon one with softail.

I'd go with the c-dale first because this year they've put really good components on it and the value is great.
Are you lokking for just the frame or the whole bike?

Heidi · Oct 22, 2002

My FS has never failed me in my 100 mile races or my 20 mile races. I have only ridden and raced full suspension so I can't help much I guess.

Back to the regularly scheduled program.

Captain Cogset · Oct 22, 2002

Test ride a Gary Fisher Sugar. Very close to a hardtail when cranking, but you get 2.5" of travel to save the beating to your body. I have been racing over 2 years and will never be going back to a hardtail.

indieboy · Oct 22, 2002

was i the only one that read he wants a hardtail? lol seriously though folks if you get a well made steel hard tail you don't need a fs. but that's just my 2 centz. what type of money are you looking to spend yankee tim? that will mainly determine what you can look at.

indieboy · Oct 22, 2002

Originally posted by Yankee Tim
I'm not sure on how much I'll be able to spend yet. I am married, have to get permission you know.

Probably around $1200 tops for the frame. That's if I can talk her into it.

Anyway, a few of the frames I was looking into were:

Jamis Dragon - steel
Soulcraft Option Three - steel
Independent Fabrications Deluxe - steel
Dean Colonal - ti

Anyone ever ridden any of these frames?

well i've owned a steel deluxe and currently own a ti one. i actually race for them and have for the past 4 years. i have very high opinions about their frames and race for them b/c i believe in their products. or else i would have gone to someone else. the ppl who make those bike live, breathe, and eat to make their bikes the best. they know what they are doing and it shows in the end product. i think their steel hard tails are the shiet. they ride great, the geometry has been dialed in from their years of experience in building frames, the tubes are fully sealed at the junctions so NO moisture gets into the tubes so they won't rust from the inside out. the welds are just as clean as they get. i've had the experience to watch these bikes through each step of the manufacturing process and helped them out through certain steps when i was there during the summer and nothing but love goes into each one of their frames. it was amazing to get to watch them make each bike step by step. if you have ANY questions about an IF i'd be more then happy to help you out, even if you decide not to go w/ one and say to w/ like the soulcraft i'll help you out w/ whatever decision making you do if you want it from me. i think the jamis is good for a budget frame, many companies throw those 853 stickers on their bikes and only use one tube of 853. the reason why IF doesn't put them on their bikes any more is b/c 3 different tubes are used to make their steel bikes. true temper is used for the head tube, 853 is used for the main triangle, and colombus is used for the rear stays. then dedachi(sp?) is used or the fork blades on all the forks.

monkeywrench · Oct 23, 2002

Hardtail vs FS. It's a tough call, but for endurance racing, you can't beat the comfort of a good, light FS XC bike. It's so much easier on the body than spending 24 hours on a hardtail. Indieboy is right about the steel hardtail thing being more comfortable compared to an aluminum, but not as much as four inches of travel in the rear that you can lockout. I've got a Jericho Leadfoot steel hardtail so I'm not just blowing smoke. The bike is amazing, but I'm a singlespeeder so I don't have much of a choice.

If you want a hardtail, by all means go steel or ti and with $1200, you could pick up a nice one. Jericho steel goes for around $1100. Airborne Ti for around the same.

Good luck with the racing.

The Toninator · Oct 23, 2002

I have the dragon and have really, really liked it so far. Unfortunately i have only a few rides on it so far but plan on doing the HRH 24 next weekend on it. It's a solidly built frame and i know several people who have been racing them this whole year. On guy even sold his IF because i wasnt getting any use.
If youre interested in the dragon here's one on ebay for sale. It is used but the guy is offering a full refund if you dont like it. I bought mine new on ebay for $350 and i think they retail for $650 or there abouts. The full XTR with crossmax's have a retail of $2500 on their web site. www.jamisbikes.com
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1870599905

The Toninator · Oct 23, 2002

Originally posted by indieboy

i think the jamis is good for a budget frame, many companies throw those 853 stickers on their bikes and only use one tube of 853. the reason why IF doesn't put them on their bikes any more is b/c 3 different tubes are used to make their steel bikes. true temper is used for the head tube, 853 is used for the main triangle, and colombus is used for the rear stays. then dedachi(sp?) is used or the fork blades on all the forks.

Most good steel frame builders, as i understand it, do not use 853 for the seat and chain stays because it just cant handle the abuse or doesnt work well at the smaller tube sizes or something close to that. Jamis uses 853 for the mains and true temper for the stays.

indieboy · Oct 23, 2002

Originally posted by The Toninator

Most good steel frame builders, as i understand it, do not use 853 for the seat and chain stays because it just cant handle the abuse or doesnt work well at the smaller tube sizes or something close to that. Jamis uses 853 for the mains and true temper for the stays.

they don't make tubing diameters out of 853 taht can be used for the rear end.

The Toninator · Oct 23, 2002

Originally posted by indieboy

they don't make tubing diameters out of 853 taht can be used for the rear end.

ah i knew it was something like that...

indieboy · Oct 23, 2002

Originally posted by monkeywrench
Airborne Ti for around the same.

airborne's aren't worth it. they are made of realllllllly cheap grade Titanium. cheap, straight gauge ti rides as harshly as most al. frames and you don't lose any weight from these frames b/c they are +4lbs if you do not go w/ a smaller model.

indieboy · Oct 23, 2002

Originally posted by The Toninator

ah i knew it was something like that...

hehehe lol.

The Toninator · Oct 23, 2002

Originally posted by indieboy

airborne's aren't worth it. they are made of realllllllly cheap grade Titanium. cheap, straight gauge ti rides as harshly as most al. frames and you don't lose any weight from these frames b/c they are +4lbs if you do not go w/ a smaller model.

my steel frame is 4.1 lbs and would not trade it for a 2.9 al frame and a $100. The benifit from the steel it to great to get hung up on weight. If you build it up "nicely" weight wont be a factor.

indieboy · Oct 23, 2002

Originally posted by The Toninator

my steel frame is 4.1 lbs and would not trade it for a 2.9 al frame and a $100. The benifit from the steel it to great to get hung up on weight. If you build it up "nicely" weight wont be a factor.

i'd expect a steel bike to weigh that but not a ti. the benefits to a nice Ti bike is that it is light and when built correctly will ride very much like a steel bike but be stiffer at the BB. meaning that when you get up and mash on the pedals it will be stiff but ridin over bumps it's going to give you that vertical compliance like a steel bike. it's very nice

but steel is a great material and you are correctly if you build a steel bike up nicely weight won't be a problem.

JMAC · Oct 23, 2002

Hey what about a Trek 9.8 Elite frame it's a full carbon hardtail Green rides it and i think it's a really forgiving ride.

indieboy · Oct 23, 2002

Originally posted by JMAC
Hey what about a Trek 9.8 Elite frame it's a full carbon hardtail Green rides it and i think it's a really forgiving ride.

i'll let youuuuu think that...dude you have to realize that a lot of the pro's it doesn't matter what the fvck they ride, they are going to win as long as their shifting and brakes work. and actually those frames are pretty brutally stiff.

The Toninator · Oct 23, 2002

Originally posted by JMAC
Hey what about a Trek 9.8 Elite frame it's a full carbon hardtail Green rides it and i think it's a really forgiving ride.

our texas big shot, jason sager, was riding one of those not to long ago and did WELL. indyboy know's who he is ask him

indieboy · Oct 23, 2002

Originally posted by The Toninator

our texas big shot, jason sager, was riding one of those not to long ago and did WELL. indyboy know's who he is ask him

yeah but he isn't riding one anymore......i have to train hard this winter and early spring so ican beat those guys this spring lol!!! but like i said many ppl it doesn't matter what they ride they are going to do well.

JMAC · Oct 24, 2002

I know indieboy calme down! :rolleyes:

I thought the 9.8 was suppose to be a more forgiven ride sorry for trying to help :monkey:

The Toninator · Oct 24, 2002

Originally posted by Yankee Tim
Toninator,

Did you say you were racing the 24 hours of Rocky Hill coming up on the 2nd and 3rd?

I'm going to race that venue also. It will be my first 24 hour race. I've done a 6 hour (Smurfboy) with a 2 man team before, but this will be my first 24 with a 4 man team.

I'm planning on doing a few other endurance events in the near future. The Ouchita Challenge in the spring and The Trail Of Tears next summer.

Let me know if you are going to be at the 24 hour, I'll look for you.

Later,

Tim

Damn You TIM!!!! yes i will be racing the 24 on a 4 man team!!! I will see you on the trail mister:devil:
hehehehe just kidding come over and drink a beer with us. Our camp will be right next to the start finish and will have an NWCC banner i think we are going to incorporate the bikemojo group this year too so their banner will be close also.
tony

indieboy · Oct 24, 2002

Originally posted by JMAC
I know indieboy calme down! I thought the 9.8 was suppose to be a more forgiven ride sorry for trying to help

s'allgood man, it's just those frames are quite stiff. their carbon ht's are just stiff, not really the forgiving ride you'd think of w/ carbon.

Frame choice for Endurance Events

Chimp

Want fries with that?

Turbo Monkey

Der hund ist laut und braun

Chimp

Chimp

Want fries with that?

Chimp

Chimp

Want fries with that?

Chimp

Muffin

Muffin

Want fries with that?

Muffin

Want fries with that?

Want fries with that?

Muffin

Want fries with that?

Turbo Monkey

Want fries with that?

Muffin

Want fries with that?

Chimp

Turbo Monkey

Muffin

Want fries with that?

Chimp