[Happymtb.fr]

@Udi some time ago you ask me about the mt500 levers.
I have had these for a little more than a year and I have done around 2500km with them, mostly trail riding and chasing KOM on short descents. They are paired with Magura calipers.
The levers have been ok most of the time but now I get some irregularities (stiff lever, inconsistent bite point) that bleeding do not cure. The irregularities seems to be related to cold temperature and do not occur often enough to be irritating. We will see how long it will last...!

 

[Udi]

@Happymtb.fr thanks, might be useful for someone. Sounds normal as per their other levers. At least they'll be cheap to replace if you decide to refresh.

Pretty cool, any chance you've tried fitting these on Shimano brakes?

I'd almost guarantee they'll work fine on Shimano, haven't tried it myself but I have used the Shimano barb/olive on various brakes and they use a very conventional design (geometrically similar). I've never had a problem with the stock Shimano parts in fairness, but do prefer the Hayes design.

 

[mykel]

"Hi Michael

I'm afraid we do not make a mount for the 225 rotor, our mounts are only suitable for rotors up to 203. I believe Avid/SRAM make a 225 mount

Kind regards,

Hope Technology"

 

[Da Peach]

Ouch. Replacement pads for the MT7 are spendy!

 

[Sandwich]

Ouch. Replacement pads for the MT7 are spendy!

$25 and end from merlin cycles. where are you buying them from?

 

[mykel]

So, the question then becomes...

How do I MacGyver an adapter?

Fork is PM 203 (888) Brakes are Tech3V4.
Hope makes a +20 and a +23 mm PM - PM adapter.
So, assuming the angles are correct, which I doubt, one gives +1mm and the other -2mm.
Find or make up some Tube spacers??

Anybody done it, seen it done, heard about it from your buddies dealers mom's boyfriend?

Thoughts?

 

[roflbox]

wait, why do you have 225mm rotors?

 

[Da Peach]

$25 and end from merlin cycles. where are you buying them from?

Local distributor.

Shipping from Merlin is spendy too. Canada gets the shaft...

 

[Sandwich]

sorry my dude. it was free for me once I added a bleed kit. 'merica and all that.

 

[mykel]

wait, why do you have 225mm rotors?

I don't.
I have been looking at them.
With the 203mm my Hope Tech3V4's are at their limit with my 225 lbs. Great modulation, but compared to others (ie XO Trail) down on ultimate power.
You can get the power, but at the cost of hand / arm pump as you have to really pull.

Hope has had a 225mm rotor for a few years. Have never seen the mounts however, so I e-mailed Hope and low and behold, they do not exist.

So they forced me to create a meme and ask the for help sorting an adapter.

 

[toodles]

I think Trickstuff do a 225mm rotor as well. Maybe they do an adaptor?

 

[Inclag]

Let us know what you find on the adapter front. Moar shimz is certainly an option....


....so onto my dilemma. I'd like to optimize my existing brakes as best I can and not buy something new... Currently I have a set of M640s and also the m6000's. I'm about 190lbs and I would glaze over metallic non finned pads on the m640's when riding any downhill that was reasonably long. This was with 26" wheels, 8" front and 7" rear Ice Tech rotors. I'm going to be one biking it this summer on the 29er since it worked well enough at the mountain last year and I'm hoping some mods to bump it to 175mm rear and 180 front get it close enough to the point where I'm the limiting factor in speed and it isn't the bike.

I certainly would never turn down more power so is anyone aware if the servowave action or piston area is any different on the m6000 levers compared to the Zee's? As far as other aspects of the brakes I was thinking that going to new 8" ice tech rotors and using heat sink pads should help I would imagine. The Shimano brakes are pretty good for outright power which I value, but I just would love if I could have a brake that worked and didn't need some sort of TLC after doing some lift assist riding. Are there any aftermarket pads that are maybe a little more durable on the glaze front but still operate in the wet? I'm also happy to guinea pig the aluminum pistons as well or even try 9" rotors.

Open to opinions.

 

[mykel]

I think Trickstuff do a 225mm rotor as well. Maybe they do an adaptor?

Cheers!!

They do a 223mm disk.
They also do a PM-PM +20 adapter - BAPMPM20 or BACNCPMPM20SW for the fancy version.

The nice man said that this will work with the 888.

 

[Sandwich]

Let us know what you find on the adapter front. Moar shimz is certainly an option....


....so onto my dilemma. I'd like to optimize my existing brakes as best I can and not buy something new... Currently I have a set of M640s and also the m6000's. I'm about 190lbs and I would glaze over metallic non finned pads on the m640's when riding any downhill that was reasonably long. This was with 26" wheels, 8" front and 7" rear Ice Tech rotors. I'm going to be one biking it this summer on the 29er since it worked well enough at the mountain last year and I'm hoping some mods to bump it to 175mm rear and 180 front get it close enough to the point where I'm the limiting factor in speed and it isn't the bike.

I certainly would never turn down more power so is anyone aware if the servowave action or piston area is any different on the m6000 levers compared to the Zee's? As far as other aspects of the brakes I was thinking that going to new 8" ice tech rotors and using heat sink pads should help I would imagine. The Shimano brakes are pretty good for outright power which I value, but I just would love if I could have a brake that worked and didn't need some sort of TLC after doing some lift assist riding. Are there any aftermarket pads that are maybe a little more durable on the glaze front but still operate in the wet? I'm also happy to guinea pig the aluminum pistons as well or even try 9" rotors.

Open to opinions.

what are you riding now?

 

[Inclag]

what are you riding now?

Mega 290

 

[mykel]

More on the Hope 225mm Saga....

Sent to Hope.
I understand that you have nothing official, but you also have the rotor available, so there must be work-arounds.

The fork is rated for a 230mm maximum rotor size by Marzocchi.
The PM on the 888 is 8" or 203mm.
The rotor is 225mm.

You have three mounts that may work, two +20mm and one +23 mm mounts.
PM-PM+20mm type "K" and type "L" as well as a PM-PM+23mm type "H"
One will be +1mm and the other will be -2 mm with regard to caliper placement.
The +1mm could be faced and the -2mm could also be shimmed with washers if the mount face angles are correct.

Reply from Hope

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your email, please see attached, this is based on a Fox 40 8" PM, if the Marzocchi differs then you will have to do some working yourself - but if you can mount along the purple phantom line you will be close. You will need to use concave convex washer set on top of caliper to make up for the 3° tilt. Of course we cannot guarantee this will work and certainly do not recommend you do it.

Kind Regards,

Hope Technology




So, an H bracket and some Avid CPS washers and we may have a workable solution.

Having said all that, the Trickstuff 223 and mount would be the way to go, less pfaffing about and no worries about nudge nudge wink wink from Hope.

 

[Udi]

and I would glaze over metallic non finned pads on the m640's when riding any downhill that was reasonably long.

Most people do this, most people just don't realise.
This has been discussed in detail multiple times already though - just get heatsink pads (genuine Shimano only).

As for a brake that doesn't need TLC after chairlift DH riding (if we're talking about a lot - like a month or a season) then Shimano makes absolutely nothing that meets the criteria. Just run whatever you're happy with from them, if you still are. M640 and M820 will be the highest peak force options, any combo that increases force further will make the stupidly long throw even worse than it already is.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

@Inclag I you want to stay with Shimano, the new mt501 levers paired with mt520 4 pots caliper might be a reasonably priced option. You can apparently fit heatsink pads after a bit of grinding.
I never tried them myself but knowing that the technology is quite event through shimanos range they would be my choice at the moment for cheap disposable powerful brakes.

 

[Sandwich]

@Udi , looks like gwin is getting 223mm rotors, per pinkbike. They look nice, too.

 

[Udi]

@Sandwich looks nice for sure, more options always good.
If someone finds the rotor weight please share and/or whack it in the spreadsheet tab.

I'm getting 222g for the current Hope 225mm rotor (had scale and rotor handy).

 

[Happymtb.fr]

I saw that on another forum and thought it could be helpful here. I don't know the origin or the accuracy... 60mm of lever travel is a bit on the conservative side of things!

 

[mykel]

@Udi

Just heard back from TRP regarding some 203mm TRP-33 disks.
1.8mm thickness
199 grams without bolts.

I will ask Ben about the 223, re weight, adapters, cost and availability

m

Edit

Michael,

We're anxiously awaiting the arrival of the 223's. Please keep your eyes on the web site, we'll show them in stock as soon as we get them. <snip>

...I believe we'll offer them both in 1.8 and 2.3. Please let me know if I can help from here.

Ben

 

[mykel]

Pricing will be interesting.

Glad I held off on pushing go on the Trickstuff rotor - the price converted to Canukistani was wobble inducing.

For reference:
Trickstuff's 223 rotor is 2.05mm thick
Pricing is 99 Euro list. (R2 has them for the low low price of 97.50)

 

[jstuhlman]

well well well. 4 pots for the front to go with 2 pots for the back showed up early. been digging the 2 pots a lot so far. comparable power to xt’s with much more modulation. prolly need to bleed them once i get the front one on, since the rear one has that “pump it up” action going on if you flip the bike over.

 

[StiHacka]

View attachment 132727 well well well. 4 pots for the front to go with 2 pots for the back showed up early. been digging the 2 pots a lot so far. comparable power to xt’s with much more modulation. prolly need to bleed them once i get the front one on, since the rear one has that “pump it up” action going on if you flip the bike over.

Does that make you a ... curator?

 

[shmity]

I am having a great time on my Cura 4s, bags of power, just enough modulation. Im not super in love with the levers though. I came from shimano and I'm used to having my levers run much closer to the bar than the curas can get. Has anyone tried an alternative lever with them? Modified the existing lever blade?

 

[mykel]

I am having a great time on my Cura 4s, bags of power, just enough modulation. Im not super in love with the levers though. I came from shimano and I'm used to having my levers run much closer to the bar than the curas can get. Has anyone tried an alternative lever with them? Modified the existing lever blade?

That is what I'm worrying about with the Cura4.
I run my levers very close to the bar, like full engagement / lockup just off or barely touching the grip.

I would like to see the new Hayes Dominion in person. They look a bit more like an engineering mule than a production unit, but I would take function over form. Reviews all seem good, but as @Udi pointed out it looks like the reservoir sits below the piston...

Maybe I just suck it up, and get another set of Hope T3V4 but pair them with Trickstuff pads and TRP or Trickstuff 223/203 rotors.

 

[dovbush66]

That is what I'm worrying about with the Cura4.
I run my levers very close to the bar, like full engagement / lockup just off or barely touching the grip.

I would like to see the new Hayes Dominion in person. They look a bit more like an engineering mule than a production unit, but I would take function over form. Reviews all seem good, but as @Udi pointed out it looks like the reservoir sits below the piston...

Maybe I just suck it up, and get another set of Hope T3V4 but pair them with Trickstuff pads and TRP or Trickstuff 223/203 rotors.

I'm in the same boat - love close up levers and really liked the ergonomics of my old Juicy 5s for that. Moved to R0s and starting to adapt to the longer reach but I do find myself dragging brakes when I shouldnt be out of habit.

On the other hand I've seen IRL and on forums people who just bent the older style formula levers with a vice and got on fine. Dunno if the shape of the new cura lever will play nice with that.

 

[toodles]

That is what I'm worrying about with the Cura4.
I run my levers very close to the bar, like full engagement / lockup just off or barely touching the grip.

I would like to see the new Hayes Dominion in person. They look a bit more like an engineering mule than a production unit, but I would take function over form. Reviews all seem good, but as @Udi pointed out it looks like the reservoir sits below the piston...

Maybe I just suck it up, and get another set of Hope T3V4 but pair them with Trickstuff pads and TRP or Trickstuff 223/203 rotors.

At this stage you might as well pony up for the Trickstuff DRTs if you can get them. It's like literally the only brake that ticks all the boxes

 

[jstuhlman]

hah! i hate levers close to the bar...so no need to mess with the curas for me!

 

[shmity]

I'm in the same boat - love close up levers and really liked the ergonomics of my old Juicy 5s for that. Moved to R0s and starting to adapt to the longer reach but I do find myself dragging brakes when I shouldnt be out of habit.

On the other hand I've seen IRL and on forums people who just bent the older style formula levers with a vice and got on fine. Dunno if the shape of the new cura lever will play nice with that.

Im inclined to try it, but given how far out the pivot is from the bar and the shape of the lever im not sure how effective or comfortable it will be. A new lever blade can be had for ~14 euro so its not an expensive exercise to try, but i just got my most recent pacakage of parts and i dont feel like paying postage just for 2 blades at the moment.

Regardless, the Curas ticked enough boxes for me that ill persevere with them for the rest of the season and make any drastic changes when Im riding the DH bike less.

 

[mykel]

At this stage you might as well pony up for the Trickstuff DRTs if you can get them. It's like literally the only brake that ticks all the boxes

Ya, I looked into them. I want but...

I can get Hope / Hayes / Formula / Magura for about 450 Cdn, DRT's - over a G note. The difference pays for my Avy tuning or plastic cranks or Onyx hubs, etc.... Being medically retired, I just don't have it. This build is stretching things huge as it is.

Magura plastic is out, too fragile - I'm not a ham-fisted mechanic, but I can't say the same about my riding.

Cura - lever shape not close enough to the bar? ...and tight rotor clearance?

Hayes - unknown at this point

Hope - Power? Trickstuff pads are supposed to be the real deal though....

Fucking first world problems

 

[toodles]

Hope - Power? Trickstuff pads are supposed to be the real deal though....

Is there a Trickstuff pad for the V4? I'd be keen to give those a try.

 

[mykel]

Is there a Trickstuff pad for the V4? I'd be keen to give those a try.

Yup.

 

[jstuhlman]

formulas fit right onto my xt rotors no problem...

 

[KAZHA]

yeah,what was the deal with Cura4 rotors?
do I need Formula ones or can I already use my Avid(?) or any other

 

[Flo33]

yeah,what was the deal with Cura4 rotors?
do I need Formula ones or can I already use my Avid(?) or any other

There were some reports, esp. on German forums, on some vibration while actually braking. With the new one piece Formula rotors this should be gone.

FYI I'm running R0Rs with Shimano Icetech rotors.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Nobody tried bending the Cura levers?

 

[shmity]

formulas fit right onto my xt rotors no problem...

Same here. It is tight, there's a lot of meat on the pads, but it does fit. I get a bit of vibration from the rear brake but I'm pretty sure it's because I need that mount faced, I had some with previous brakes as well.

EDIT:

Cura blades (and all the spare parts you could want) available here if you want to have a go https://www.alltricks.com/F-32736-pieces-freins-hydrauliques/P-346720-formula_kit_lever_cura_mat_black

 

[Nick]

Nobody tried bending the Cura levers?

I think @kidwoo bends his.