[DHRacer]

Okay, to spark some activity in here... let's get it on!

i say we start drilling in Alaska and get our own d@mn oil... screw the middle east! Only problem is those frickin' tree huggers! Do they know how big Alaska really is, and the little impact that it would have? I mean seriously, they griped and moaned about the pipeline and how devestating that would be... and look at it now, is it devestating? NO Has it how the huge environmental impact they said it would? NO Have all the animals around it died? NO

all the damn environmentalists need to get real day time jobs and start contributing to the economy rather than protesting everything!



(there, that should stir the mud a little)

 

[Toshi]

alaska is a drop in the bucket. drilling there would NOT decrease our reliance on the middle east significantly.

Although only one well has been drilled in the refuge, the Department of Energy believes the refuge would produce about 1 million barrels a day at peak production. That's enough to double Alaska production and increase national oil production by 17 percent.

But more Alaska crude would do nothing to solve California's electricity crisis, which is caused primarily by a shortage of power-generation capacity. Oil from the refuge would also probably not lower global oil prices, said Arlon Tussing, an energy economist in Seattle. Nor would it free the nation from dependence on OPEC oil or end the nation's vulnerability to disruptions in the production of foreign crude.

Even tapping refuge oil, the United States would still import more than half its crude oil.

from http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/05/0507_arcticrefuge.html

 

[Lexx D]

Originally posted by DHRacer
Okay, to spark some activity in here... let's get it on!

i say we start drilling in Alaska and get our own d@mn oil... screw the middle east! Only problem is those frickin' tree huggers! Do they know how big Alaska really is, and the little impact that it would have? I mean seriously, they griped and moaned about the pipeline and how devestating that would be... and look at it now, is it devestating? NO Has it how the huge environmental impact they said it would? NO Have all the animals around it died? NO

all the damn environmentalists need to get real day time jobs and start contributing to the economy rather than protesting everything!



(there, that should stir the mud a little)

Alternative fuels, and hybrid vehicles are the answers you seek

 

[Snacks]

I agree that we should look at drilling in Alaska, but like Toshi mentioned....BUT would doing that really have an impact on oil prices or how much we depend on the middle east?

I say the gov't should start giving out large discounts for purchasing electric/hybrd cars.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by Snacks
I agree that we should look at drilling in Alaska, but like Toshi mentioned....BUT would doing that really have an impact on oil prices or how much we depend on the middle east?

I say the gov't should start giving out large discounts for purchasing electric/hybrd cars.

They do....

I think the cars are heavily subsidized. (no I didn't look for a report... )

Rhino

 

[RhinofromWA]

Ok I looked and found this real quick:

Tax Tip 2004-59, March 25, 2004

If you are the original owner of a qualifying hybrid vehicle — one that combines an electric motor with a gasoline-powered engine — you may be eligible to claim a one-time tax deduction on your federal income tax return.

Certain Toyota and Honda models qualify for the deduction:

Toyota Prius — Model Years 2001 through 2004
Honda Insight — Model Years 2000 through 2004
Honda Civic Hybrid — Model Years 2003 and 2004
The deduction amount is $2,000 for cars first put into use before 2004. Under current law, the clean-burning fuel deduction will be reduced by $500 each year, starting in 2004, until it expires. No deduction will be allowed for vehicles placed in service after December 31, 2006.

The deduction was set after the Toyota and Honda corporations documented for the IRS the incremental costs of buying their hybrid vehicles. The deduction must be taken for the year in which the vehicle was first used. For a car first used before 2003 but for which the deduction was not yet taken, a taxpayer may claim the deduction on an amended tax return, using Form 1040X.

This benefit is taken as an adjustment to income. You do not have to itemize deductions on your tax return to claim it, but you do have to use Form 1040. Include your deduction on the dotted line to the left of line 33 of the 2003 Form 1040, and identify as “clean fuel.”

Federal tax law allows individuals to claim a deduction for the incremental cost of buying a motor vehicle that is propelled by a clean-burning fuel. Hybrid vehicles obtain greater fuel efficiency and produce fewer emissions than similar vehicles powered solely by conventional gasoline-powered engines.

For more information on the clean fuel deduction, see IRS Publication 535, Business Expenses (hybrid vehicles do not have to be owned or used by businesses to qualify for the deduction). The publication is available on this Web site or by calling toll free 1-800-TAX-FORM (1-800-829-3676).

Related Items:

Publication 535, Business Expenses (PDF 422K)
Form 1040, U.S. Individual Income Tax Return (PDF 176K)
Form 1040X, Amended U.S. Individual Income Tax Return (PDF 110K)

www.irs.gov

 

[Honeywell]

So why has the government released some barrels on the reserve to help cut the cost? They've done it before when prices weren't even close to this high.

 

[Snacks]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
They do....

I think the cars are heavily subsidized. (no I didn't look for a report... )

Rhino

When I look at purchacing a Honda Civic there isn't anywhere that it mentions a rebate from the anyone.

 

[RhinofromWA]

DEARBORN – Ford Motor Co. engineers and marketers are anxious to get into the hybrid-electric vehicle game. Ford’s accountants may not share that enthusiasm.

That’s because when Ford’s Escape Hybrid goes on sale late this year as the first production HEV sold by a U.S. domestic auto maker, Ford will lose money on each and every one of the green machines.


Ford admits it will have to subsidize sales of its Escape Hybrid.
Such is the grim reality behind costly HEV technology, says Prabhakar B. Patil, chief program engineer for the Escape Hybrid. Patil admits that although the price of the Escape Hybrid will be more than a standard Escape, the price customers ultimately pay – which Ford has yet to determine – will not cover the cost of the hybrid system.

http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_ford_escape_hybrid/

Fords subsidizing their Escape and loosing money.....the same as Honda and Toyota....they all take a big loss on these things....when are they going to turn that cost back on us?

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by Snacks
When I look at purchacing a Honda Civic there isn't anywhere that it mentions a rebate from the anyone.

Honda is taking the hit apperantly the REAL COST is much higher...they are losing money. You wouldn't see that on a sticker.

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_ford_escape_hybrid/

Fords subsidizing their Escape and loosing money.....the same as Honda and Toyota....they all take a big loss on these things....when are they going to turn that cost back on us?

iirc toyota is breaking even on the prius nowadays. of course they're still way in the hole overall due to r&d because they're not turning a profit, let alone a consistent one to recoup the initial costs...

 

[Ridemonkey]

Originally posted by Honeywell
So why has the government released some barrels on the reserve to help cut the cost? They've done it before when prices weren't even close to this high.

For one thing the price of crude is only one factor in the high price of gasoline. Increasing production in Alaska is going to do nothing for the political factors or the shortage of refineries in the US that are contributing to the high prices.

I'd love to see us leave the Middle East behind and let them sort out their problems themselves. Problem is we use so much oil that we would never even come close to meeting our fuel demands from our own reserves. The only solution is to reduce fuel consumption - but the average American refuses to make any lifestyle changes.

We have gotten in bed with the Devil and now we are starting to pay the price.

 

[Snacks]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Ok I looked and found this real quick:



www.irs.gov

Okay so I would get to deduct $500 a year until they exp(?) but lets say that I didn't own a house so I don't have enough deductions to go over the standard (around $7,000 per yr).


How would I get to take the deduction off my income tax?

 

[Lexx D]

Ford is also taking a hit since it cost them $$ to buy the right to toyotas system. As far as cars go the prius is nice. Plenty of power, very reliable. Toyota will have a highlander hybrid this year and a tundra is in the future.

 

[PsychO!1]

Originally posted by DHRacer
I mean seriously, they griped and moaned about the pipeline and how devestating that would be... and look at it now, is it devestating? NO Has it how the huge environmental impact they said it would? NO Have all the animals around it died? NO

What about the Exxon Valdeze (sp?) disaster?? It not the drilling that's has environmental impact, it's transporting that stuff with out spilling it!!!

 

[oly]

Unkle Bush is holding his good cards for the end of the game. Too bad his competitions last name isnt shaved. Then we could have a real debate........

 

[freeridekid]

Hybrid SUVs are a contradiction in terms almost. part of America's oil problem is that we buy big suvs that we don't need because hardly anybody goes offroading with them enough to justify them. the escape is especially stupid because its basically a jacked up car (IMO) that gets lower mileage. if you're trying to conserve oil, don't promote suvs by making hybrid versions of them. a hybrid truck does make sense though, because you can't get truck durability and ruggedness in a car. i doubt that most of America will convert to hybrid though until our oil runs dry--which won't happen for a long time because you know we'll drill here if the middle east runs out. it's becoming hard to believe our ancestors are the environmentally-concious europeans, considering how greedy america is. i'd gladly buy a hybrid if they made a truck or minivan version (assuming i could afford it).

 

[buildyourown]

You do get some money back on your taxes but it is offset by the higher cost of the Hybrid vehicles. So in the end, there is no insentive. The gov can't give us an incentive because then the oil companies wouldn't make as much money. Don't forget what GW and his sidekick used to do for a living.

I got an idea, ride your bike more. Don't forget, May 13 to 19 is ride your bike to work week. Try it just once.

 

[oly]

Originally posted by buildyourown


I got an idea, ride your bike more. Don't forget, May 13 to 19 is ride your bike to work week. Try it just once.

Oly to the middle of Vashon? Um sorry, but ill not be riding to work.

 

[evilbob]

Originally posted by Honeywell
So why has the government released some barrels on the reserve to help cut the cost? They've done it before when prices weren't even close to this high.

The reserve is based on buffer stock that is supposed to be kept up by the US based oil companies and refineries, the government doesn't actually maintain the physical stock. So for the most part it is privately maintain and reported. If you noticed just about 2 weeks ago there was some issues in the news (kept low key for some reason) about the buffer surplus of several companies being something less than what they had been reporting. So it appears that we may not be able to release barrels out of reserve until we know exactly how much reserve we actually have. Not only does this reduce the available supply in times like this but it drives the price of all the oil based products up. How so, the buffer stock is included in the base value of the company that maintains it. This affects the companies stock value and applied interest as the estimated buffer is considered to have a cash investment value and earns interest value (dollars) for the oil company reporting how much is being maintained. Their earned interest just recently became considerably less when the virtual buffer reported was found to be considerably less than the actual buffer (surplus) available. So oil companies need to make the cash difference up to maintain the bottom line ........ hhhhmmmm ....... where do you think the cash difference is being made up at. Wonder if we will see more corporate audits soon? Oh as far as where we get our crude from, I think if you really check you would be very suprised to find that at peak consumption less than 25% comes from the middle east and the average consumption from the middle east is somewhere between 10% to 14% supplied to the active demand.

 

[Lexx D]

Originally posted by freeridekid
Hybrid SUVs are a contradiction in terms almost. part of America's oil problem is that we buy big suvs that we don't need because hardly anybody goes offroading with them enough to justify them. the escape is especially stupid because its basically a jacked up car (IMO) that gets lower mileage. if you're trying to conserve oil, don't promote suvs by making hybrid versions of them. a hybrid truck does make sense though, because you can't get truck durability and ruggedness in a car. i doubt that most of America will convert to hybrid though until our oil runs dry--which won't happen for a long time because you know we'll drill here if the middle east runs out. it's becoming hard to believe our ancestors are the environmentally-concious europeans, considering how greedy america is. i'd gladly buy a hybrid if they made a truck or minivan version (assuming i could afford it).

The hybrid toyota tundra will have around 500 foot pounds of torque. Is that enough for you? A hybrid SUV is great, people get the size, and type vehicle they want and get 30-40 mpg. How is this a bad thing?

 

[buildyourown]

Originally posted by Lexx D
The hybrid toyota tundra will have around 500 foot pounds of torque. Is that enough for you? A hybrid SUV is great, people get the size, and type vehicle they want and get 30-40 mpg. How is this a bad thing?

Hybrids get 15-30% better mileage than thier gas conterparts so on a Prius you get 40-45mpg. The new chevy silverado hybrid gets 18mpg. BFD. My diesel get 49mpg.

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by buildyourown
Hybrids get 15-30% better mileage than thier gas conterparts so on a Prius you get 40-45mpg. The new chevy silverado hybrid gets 18mpg. BFD. My diesel get 49mpg.

your diesel what tho? golf? golf != silverado

 

[Skookum]

......

can't wait to hear the crying when we gotta pay 3 bucks a gallon in a couple of months......

does anyone besides me get perplexed on why gas prices are so high? the story i always read is that there are so-called experts holed up somewhere who speculate on what the demand of gas is going to be. For some frikkin reason the demand spikes in the summer and prices get jacked. So the dollar is down and is crude oil more expensive per barrel? If it isn't who's making the profit. What happened to our refineries?

Industrialism's lifeline is oil, R.M.'s comment rings true. Instead of looking to dig for more petrol everyone should be thinking about moving in the direction of weening our nations dependance on it.

Alaska is beautiful raw wild country, some of the last on the Earth really. I wouldn't label the people up there hippies at all.

I hear the term "hippy" "liberal" it usually is a push by industry people somewhere to jerk someone off to line their own pockets.

DhRacer you keep bringing up hippies and spotted owls i gotta tell a story.

Over ten years ago i worked at a Marketing Research Company, y'know one of them outfits that calls people and does surveys. Well anyways we did one for Weherhauser. We called loggers and all kinds of people with assorted incomes and lifestyles.

This was during the whole spotted owl fiasco. As a backdrop for people who weren't around here during them times, they had a few groups of hippies tying themselves to tree's and the media went crazy with it. Alot of city people would be appalled at seeing clearcuts and automatically assume loggers were to blame for all this (so-called) destruction. The spotted owl was made an endangered species and the focus was put on saving the owl, at the cost of jobs, because Wheyerhauser wanted to do the right thing, or so that's what they wanted you to believe.

We were supposed to be impartial and move the survey along, but most of the logger i could get to participate would chime in an earful. They weren't very much concerned with the hippies or the spotted owl, because they realized it was a diversion on which Weherhauser could focus peoples attention away. For Wheyerhauser had for years been busy buying up the rest of the mills and smaller logging companies and shutting them down, then they were purposely overlogging and selling raw timber to Japan to help them do this. Well they succeeded, fast foward to now, no logging companys except Weherhauser, no logging towns, all machines, no mills, small logging towns toast, and all because the public was duped into thinking it was a big conspiracy involving owls and hippies.

Oh yah and the survey i did with the people came with loaded questions that picked the brains of the perceptions of people on the subject. They took the most popular answers and made some commercials that were verbatum of the feedback on what people wanted to hear. Big business comes out smelling like a rose. This is an example of how we will sell our children into slavery for the future........

hippies, owls, gimme a break........

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by Lexx D
The hybrid toyota tundra will have around 500 foot pounds of torque. Is that enough for you? A hybrid SUV is great, people get the size, and type vehicle they want and get 30-40 mpg. How is this a bad thing?

Hope that is on demand torque...

As I understand it the electric motor gives you the good torque ratings but the gas engine will be smaller (giving better gas mileage) When you need the torque in a car....normally starting out it is great but how fast does it kick in when you need it at a hill?

I don't know the answer. Now to get good economy you need a lighter vehice (not the greatest thing for a truck without going super $$$) I think hybribs are great for a new style of car...light efficient. Throwing it is a truck chasis while good in teh long run for everyone is expensive and the returns are less than super... Escape gets 25 around town and 30 on the freeway....that is great but not exactly the end all.

 

[WSUDirtrider]

I drive a mustang, with lots and lots of engine and suspension mods. I don't like the high gas prices, it pings under accelleration at half throttle with "cheap" gas. man I am having to decide between driving my car and racing now. I can't afford both so I am all for getting oil anywhere we can. Stupid high gas prices!

 

[Timmaa]

hybrid are cool...but the cost some billiage....buy deisel....vw tdi...rullage....50mpg....good torque....but the manufactures dont import their deisels for some reason...i think it ahs to do with govermnental asswipage...so eyah.....why do you tink all the smelly europeans drive scooters and sub compact deisels....cause gas is 5 bucks a gallon over yonder...by over yonder...i mean europe.....but i digress...we live in the land of bigger is better....so the suv drivers will beach and complain all day long aobut how much gas costs...blarthe blar blar.......but they keep driving the suv.....therefore...suv drivers are some stupid people.....the end... good night.....if you wake up in the middle of the night....its not my fault...she said she was 18....

 

[speedbump]

The U.S. will always be heavily dependent on foreign oil! Why? Because it is cheap! The north slope was only developed because OPEC made the mistake of driving the price of oil so high that it became worth the huge investment to drill for oil in Alaska. Any oil to be found there now is a drop in the bucket globally and an expensive drop at that.

The pool of oil under Saudi Arabia has a name (unfortunately, I can't remember it). One of my profs put it like this. It has a name the way Lake Superior has a name. The oil deposits in North America don't, the same way the puddle in your driveway doesn't.

The Saudi's cost of production is obscenely low. The oil is under natural pressure and doesn't need to be pumped to the surface. Once on the surface it essentially runs downhill to the gulf where it is loaded on tankers. They are rich because they have oil, they are fantastically rich because they have to spend so little on producing it.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Originally posted by Snacks
When I look at purchacing a Honda Civic there isn't anywhere that it mentions a rebate from the anyone.

I don't think any of the Honda Civic's count as "hybrids" which would be why you don't get to take the 'rebate'. I drive the HX version, supposedly the fuel economy version. I get between 35 inner city and 45 (the best I've gotten) freeway mpg.

I researched the rebate/tax deduction this last year (the first I'd heard of it) but my Civic doesn't count for it.

Do they have a newer hybrid besides the HX version?

 

[Jr_Bullit]

I wonder how long it will be before the gas siphoners will appear?

I've no idea how easy/hard it is to pop open somebody's gas tank and siphon off their goods, but if prices get much higher, I suspect that there will be a crowd who snakes your gas in the middle of the night.

 

[Westy]

Heard on the radio this morning that some auto dealers association has reported that SUV sales have started to drop in the past few weeks. And experts said that Americans would not change their car buying habits until gas hit $3.00 a gallon.

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
I don't think any of the Honda Civic's count as "hybrids" which would be why you don't get to take the 'rebate'. I drive the HX version, supposedly the fuel economy version. I get between 35 inner city and 45 (the best I've gotten) freeway mpg.

I researched the rebate/tax deduction this last year (the first I'd heard of it) but my Civic doesn't count for it.

Do they have a newer hybrid besides the HX version?

http://www.hondacars.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Civic+Hybrid&bhcp=1&BrowserDetected=True

HX was only a regular gas version with a CVT and skinny tires . but you own it, so you know that. the Hybrid is the adaptation of the Insight powertrain (in spirit) to a more useful body size

 

[buildyourown]

Originally posted by Toshi
your diesel what tho? golf? golf != silverado

My diesel beetle. My point was that I wouldn't pay the $2000 upcharge for the Hybrid when I can get the diesel for an $800 upcharge and better mileage to boot.

I think gas should be $4 a gallon. Then maybe people would think twice about buying excersions and moving to north bend and commuting 70 miles a day.

 

[Snacks]

Okay here is a question....I don't know anything about diesels or the fuel they run off of.

Can someone please tell me how diesel is different than reg. gas?

Thank you.

 

[buildyourown]

Originally posted by Snacks
Okay here is a question....I don't know anything about diesels or the fuel they run off of.

Can someone please tell me how diesel is different than reg. gas?

Thank you.

Regular gas and diesel fuel are both products of crude. Along with heating oil and lots of other petro products. Gas is more volatile than diesel which means it evaporates faster and burns easier. When you heat crude oil, the gas evaporates first, then the diesel, then the heavier stuff. Diesel is harder to burn, so you have to work a little harder to get you engine to start.
Diesel engines have much higher compression than gas engines. Which means higher torque. The ignition is obtained thru high pressure and residual cylinder heat. Timing is controlled by precise fuel injection timing. There is no spark plug.

 

[Snacks]

Originally posted by buildyourown
Regular gas and diesel fuel are both products of crude. Along with heating oil and lots of other petro products. Gas is more volatile than diesel which means it evaporates faster and burns easier. When you heat crude oil, the gas evaporates first, then the diesel, then the heavier stuff. Diesel is harder to burn, so you have to work a little harder to get you engine to start.
Diesel engines have much higher compression than gas engines. Which means higher torque. The ignition is obtained thru high pressure and residual cylinder heat. Timing is controlled by precise fuel injection timing. There is no spark plug.

Okay, makes since. Is that why diesel engines last longer, because they are build 'tougher'....so what's the glow plug thing for?

 

[buildyourown]

Originally posted by Snacks
Okay, makes since. Is that why diesel engines last longer, because they are build 'tougher'....so what's the glow plug thing for?

diesel engines last longer because they dissolve wax in the fuel to help lube the injectors. Plus you never have to "tune-up" a diesel because you don't have spark plugs and wires and distributors.

Since diesel engines use compression and residual cylinder heat for ignition, they run ROUGH when cold since the cylcinder walls are cold. The glow plugs are simply hot pieces of metal in the cylinder to help get thing warmed up. Once the engine is warm, they don't do anything. You don't really need them on hot days either. My plugs are pretty shot but the truck starts right up if it has had some sun on the hood.

 

[Snacks]

Originally posted by buildyourown
diesel engines last longer because they dissolve wax in the fuel to help lube the injectors. Plus you never have to "tune-up" a diesel because you don't have spark plugs and wires and distributors.

Since diesel engines use compression and residual cylinder heat for ignition, they run ROUGH when cold since the cylcinder walls are cold. The glow plugs are simply hot pieces of metal in the cylinder to help get thing warmed up. Once the engine is warm, they don't do anything. You don't really need them on hot days either. My plugs are pretty shot but the truck starts right up if it has had some sun on the hood.

So is that why some people plug their diesels in durning the winter?

How many mpg do you get in your truck (Kevin wants to know).

Can you fit your bike in the trunk of your beetle if you fold the rear seat down?

 

[jimmydean]

I noticed last week that the Pacific Pride cardlock station by my house now has a BioDiesel pump. because it's a commercial cardlock station, I have no idea what the price is compared to standard diesel, but it's a step in the right direction.

My wife wants another big ass Dodge Ram like the one we sold last year. I told her I would get her one next year if I can convert it to Bio. From what I've read, there is an average drop of about 1 mpg using bio, but I still say it's worth it.

 

[buildyourown]

Originally posted by Snacks
So is that why some people plug their diesels in durning the winter?

How many mpg do you get in your truck (Kevin wants to know).

Can you fit your bike in the trunk of your beetle if you fold the rear seat down?

Yes that is why you plug a diesel in in the winter. Though, in cold climates, you have to plug everything in. In Alaska, they have outlets on the parking meters to keep you engine warm. No thanks.

My truck gets bad mileage (15mpg) because it is geared for towing and has a 3 sp tranny. I've heard of people getting 20-22 with the same motor with better gearing.

The beetle has a tiny trunk. I could probably get my bike in there if I took the wheels off.

Jimmydean, I have looked into Biodiesel and it isn't much more expense than regular. $2.50-3.00 a gallon. The place near me gives you a key to the pump but you have to buy $100 at a time.
I've heard new cars run fine with no mods. Since bio is so much cleaner, you have to replace the fuel filter less too.
Plus, your exhaust smells like donuts. MMMmmmm....Dooooonuuuts