[JohnE]

Anyone have generator backup for their house? Frau is tripping out about losing power and zombiepocalypse and wants to purchase one for the compound. I have only used them in tactical situations and have little generator fu outside of that...

Want to run the fridge, maybe a few space heaters...maybe a few klieg lights...24 hours max I hope...

Thoughts?

 

[stevew]

are you going to wire it up to the house?

 

[Toshi]

I chose a neighborhood with underground power lines. Problem solved. In the worst case I'd just go camp out at the hospital, with its expensive, tested-monthly generators. You still have base access?

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I have a 5 KVA contractor's M-G set that I hook up in a forbidden configuration, which is to say open the main breaker, short the two 120 V legs together, and back-feed with a suicide cord, then manage my load by flipping other breakers as needed. Not recommended.

If you want to do it properly, you need to have an electrician install a transfer switch.

 

[Pesqueeb]

In the worst case I'd just go camp out at the hospital, with its expensive, tested-monthly generators.

I recommend the book "Five days at Memorial" to you.

 

[Toshi]

I recommend the book "Five days at Memorial" to you.

Oof, from that book's description it sounds like a true cluster. I trust UCH has better resources than a county hospital in New Orleans.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Oof, from that book's description it sounds like a true cluster. I trust UCH has better resources than a county hospital in New Orleans.

It's uniquely horrifying for sure. And I sure would hope so.

 

[eric strt6]

For the fridge and a few lights a 2000 or 3000 watt inverter generator from Honda or yamaha ( enclosed, quiet and reliable) with a extension cord will do. They run 8 hours on a gallon of gas for the 2kw 6 for the 3kw. If you want to run the whole house you need about 6kw. The contractor style generators are great for power tools but the output is not good for charging electronics and can/may mess up your fridge motor. Plus they are noisy as shit. Store gas in a shed away from the house and any source of flame or spark. Add stabil to the fuel container to keep the gas from going bad in storage.

 

[junkyard]

A diesel one would be rad. The fuel doesn't go bad as fast.

 

[eric strt6]

I have a 5 KVA contractor's M-G set that I hook up in a forbidden configuration, which is to say open the main breaker, short the two 120 V legs together, and back-feed with a suicide cord, then manage my load by flipping other breakers as needed. Not recommended.

If you want to do it properly, you need to have an electrician install a transfer switch.

I have an Onan 6500 that I run the same way.

 

[Adventurous]

I chose a neighborhood with underground power lines. Problem solved. In the worst case I'd just go camp out at the hospital, with its expensive, tested-monthly generators. You still have base access?

We have underground power lines and have lost power several times in the 2.5 years we have lived here. Not problem solved.

 

[Toshi]

We have underground power lines and have lost power several times in the 2.5 years we have lived here. Not problem solved.

Transformers blowing upstream? The spice worms coming to roost finally and causing earthquakes?

 

[johnbryanpeters]

About one three day power outage will convince you that an MG or MGI set is a Good Thing.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Oof, from that book's description it sounds like a true cluster. I trust UCH has better resources than a county hospital in New Orleans.

Here's a TL;DR for you doc.
http://www.radiolab.org/story/playing-god/

 

[syadasti]

If you're looking at a permanent natural gas backup generator system, you're better off getting sometime you can use all the time like home battery system with a solar array. Depending on your needs you can buy several and they'll store more than enough power to last you through the night or typical outages and then during the day you'll have solar to power your home or spin your meter backwards plus generate additional income via SRECs.

Tesla is doing 14 kWh batteries in their second generation model and Mercedes has a much smaller model.

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall?redirect=no

2 Powerwall units offering 28 kWh cost about $12000 installed while a cheap air-cooled Generac home generator 20kW system costs about $10000 installed. The Generac is basically an cheap lawnmower engine that runs on natural gas - it needs regular maintenance like a lawn mower and will periodically run itself to keep it in decent shape due to the fact most people RARELY actually need a generator and they're a waste of money in comparison. Well designed battery systems, on the other hand, require little maintenance, can easily pay for themselves, and provide battery backup in emergencies.

 

[mandown]

How many microwaves will you need to power with it?

 

[jdcamb]

My buddy has a Honda Generator at his bugout camp. He also has a wind turbine and 2 Portable Solar panels on a trailer and a battery system. The generator is noisy and very often not needed. The windmill is small and yet it powers both camps for the most part. It was very expensive also. The leasing company that services the Fracking operation he leases his land to paid for it and he supplies them with Electricity for their Monitoring Station in return. Pennsultucky allows you to play both ends. Not only did he get a grant for the panels and batteries. He can in turn sell it to his neighbors and make money. Any money he spends on the system he can write off on his taxes....

 

[Toshi]

2 Powerwall units offering 28 kWh cost about $12000 installed while a cheap air-cooled Generac home generator 20kW system costs about $10000 installed.

Yeah, but they're not equivalent. 20 kW * 24 hrs is 480 kWh. 480 >> 28. 28 would cover the average household for about 4/5th of a day. At low usage levels it'd last longer... but at those levels Eric's suggestion of a smallish Honda inverter generator and a transfer switch would do the trick for a fraction of the price.

 

[Jm_]

Generators?

Magnets.

 

[JohnE]

You still have base access?

Yep...a whole 3 miles away. Thats my bug out plan. I keep telling her we dont need one, she just wants one...

 

[jstuhlman]

have you tried bad religion?

 

[stevew]

^
one good record.

 

[syadasti]

Yeah, but they're not equivalent. 20 kW * 24 hrs is 480 kWh. 480 >> 28. 28 would cover the average household for about 4/5th of a day. At low usage levels it'd last longer... but at those levels Eric's suggestion of a smallish Honda inverter generator and a transfer switch would do the trick for a fraction of the price.

I never said they're equal in anything but approximate cost and specifically noted the approximate run time under a decent load. Given a typical household outage other than a rare large scale outage from natural disaster or war it's far more practical and would easily pay for itself during it's decade lifespan with little to no maintenance in comparison a costly and mostly pointless generac system at a similar cost.

"Depending on your needs you can buy several and they'll store more than enough power to last you through the night or typical outages and then during the day you'll have solar to power your home or spin your meter backwards plus generate additional income via SRECs."

Unless he has a McMansion probably a single 14kWh with a 5-8 kW solar array would be a far better investment than a generac system. Similar to what jbcamb mentioned with his friend in PA.

 

[Toshi]

A far better investment would be that PV array and a savings account to buy an odd hotel night here and there.

 

[syadasti]

A far better investment would be that PV array and a savings account to buy an odd hotel night here and there.

Forward thinking public utilities have been pushing home batteries for a few years. Noticed this on my provider's page. They haven't yet updated it for the second generation:

http://products.greenmountainpower.com/product/tesla-powerwall/

A PV array alone certainly is the best investment but most places have regulations that prevent you from operating it during outages in case you are generating excess power and linemen are working on the lines. Also won't work when especially cloudy or at night.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

@syadasti: I looked at the solar/battery approach and deemed it impractical. We have very modest power consumption, but we do have two and three day power outages if we get big ice storms and/or wind. For a three day outage in winter I want to keep freezer, refrigerator, furnace, water pump, a few lights, and a couple of computers going. We're putting in a 4.5 KW solar array in the spring, but adding battery capacity sufficient to cover what I need turned out to be stupid expensive.

 

[syadasti]

JBP the second generation increases to 14 kW/battery without a price increase - that's a big savings for a project.

 

[eric strt6]

Any long term outage we would move into the RV. I have enough propane for heat and cooking to last a month and my solar 200 watts of solar panels easily keep my two group 31 AGM batteries charged.

 

[Pesqueeb]

JohnEs house is probably way too wooded for PV.

 

[Jm_]

Step 1, move frozen goods to outside if below freezing.

Step 2, fire.

Step 3, beer.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Step 1, move frozen goods to outside if below freezing.

Step 2, fire.

Step 3, beer.

OK if below freezing, ignoring wildlife, but does not cover prior experience.

 

[Jm_]

OK if below freezing, ignoring wildlife, but does not cover prior experience.

Then I wouldn't worry. It' not like we live in rural Russia...yet. I've had the power go out numerous times in NorCal with big storms, for a few days, things are pretty good these days though it takes a lot to kill the power and it can usually be restored pretty fast. Barring some kind of epic end-of-world disaster or revolution, I'm not too concerned, and if that happens, I need a whole hell of a lot more than a generator. I don't live as rural as before though, so maybe if I did I'd want to be able to be more self sufficient, but it was usually understood then that you have a fireplace, candles, and you would wait it out because it wouldn't be a matter of weeks...

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Then I wouldn't worry. It' not like we live in rural Russia...yet. I've had the power go out numerous times in NorCal with big storms, for a few days, things are pretty good these days though it takes a lot to kill the power and it can usually be restored pretty fast. Barring some kind of epic end-of-world disaster or revolution, I'm not too concerned, and if that happens, I need a whole hell of a lot more than a generator. I don't live as rural as before though, so maybe if I did I'd want to be able to be more self sufficient, but it was usually understood then that you have a fireplace, candles, and you would wait it out because it wouldn't be a matter of weeks...

It's not a survival issue, I can manage that. Discarding contents of refrigerator and freezer after three days is an obnoxious mess and a pain in the ass.

 

[eric strt6]

At my old house in the Santa Cruz mts well would lose power to the Ridgeline for 7-10 days at a time at least twice a year. Loma Prieta earthquake took out the power to Santa Cruz for a week. I will keep my generator ready

 

[JohnE]

Step 1, move frozen goods to outside if below freezing.

Step 2, fire.

Step 3, beer.

You forgot bacon.

 

[JohnE]

Am thinking about investing in gold bullion. The guy on the radio says all the cool kids are doing it.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Am thinking about investing in gold bullion. The guy on the radio says all the cool kids are doing it.

May I interest you in an orange baboon with special needs?

 

[splat]

After 2 week long Power outages a couple of years ago I invested in a 3200Watt , enough to keep the refrigerator, a few lights and Heat . I do it all with extension cords . of course since then we have not lost power . I run the Generator once every couple of months just to keep things moving

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

I chose a neighborhood with underground power lines. Problem solved. In the worst case I'd just go camp out at the hospital, with its expensive, tested-monthly generators. You still have base access?

We have underground power lines and have lost power several times in the 2.5 years we have lived here. Not problem solved.

This. I too have underground power, but have lost power a handful of times in the past 7 years.

Unless the power plant is in your backyard, you're still just as vulnerable.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Been here for almost 13 years - don't remember any power outages that were more than just a momentary blip. All underground utilities.