HammerSchmidt
- Thread starter Kntr
- Start date
This my buddy?
Only down side from what I can see ( and yes I have looked into it ) is weight and price, otherwise they seem pretty reliable. Clearance seems good too.
I am seriously thinking about putting one on my hardtail I will be building up soon.
Nice. He is not a member of Ridemonkey. Im trying to get him to be a member.
He is most interested in how tough they are. Weight is not a concern. He rides a heavy bike.
I have heard so really good things about the HS. I know that Bruce from Sinister has one and he thrashes it. He has nothing but good words for it. Also heard a few others from talking to them about it that it is fairly burly.
I am looking at one for myself sometime soon but still not in the mood to pay $600 for it. Soon though, it is a great product and a great idea.
What frame will it be going on?
Hammerschmidt has VERY slow engagement. There's a ratcheting pawl system of sorts at the cranks with very few engagement points, so if you have a high-end, fast-engaging hub (Hadley, Industry 9, Chris King, Hope, etc), kiss that quick engagement goodbye; it's negated by the slow engagement at the cranks.
Good point, but I am not called slowMTB for nothing :biggrin:
This is correct. No worries if your running DT Swiss hubs, as the engagment is on par.
My main gripe isn't the engagment like I thought it would be, it's the drive side crankarm. I find under certain conditions when my feet aren't centered (usually cornering) and I go to pedal, I absolutely crank my inside ankle bone off the metal bash ring that sits flush with the crankarm.
So far I've been happy with the actual performance of the product. Its as instant as hyped, and I've yet to drop a chain. This solved my problem of wanting a climbing gear, while retaining the benefits of a lightly geared 1x9 with chainguide.
I don't believe this is going to turn out to be a 'bad first year product' that the internet anticipated. Its exceeded my expectations at this point in the season. SRAM didn't try to cover up the weight or price tag, and the rest of their claims were accurate. If what you read is what still appeals to you after those variables, then I'm confident you'll be satisfied with your purchase. It has delivered on my end.
Yeah, but the engagement is still waaaay faster than trying to shift on the front chainring isn't it?
I have a buddy who has one on his new Bullit. It works great. He got the FR version as he's kinda big and wants to huck his meat some day. The shifting is awesome, so quick! I like the fact that it basically replaces a front derailer, extra chain rings, chain guide and bashguard - all in one! I'm not very picky on hub engagement, so I can't really comment on that.
I have been running a 'Schmidt on my Highline for a while now and have been very impressed.
The Hammer's front shifting is pretty cool, it takes a little while to get used to being able to instantly change gears.
Not sure about the 'slow engagement' comments, it is so much quicker (and more precise) then a front d that I have not noticed any lag. The gear range is spot on for a fr/am bike.
I went for the am version as I am fairly smooth on the bike, only added a few ounces over a single ring and guide.
Everyone who has pedaled around on the bike has made positive comments about how it performs. The drag in the high gear is nearly unnoticeable in the parking lot and disappears on the trail.
After struggling to keep the chain on w/ a dual ring & guide, it so nice to ditch the fd and have better performance in a nice compact package.
The Hammer Schmidt was really simple to install as well.
Recommended.
The Hammer's front shifting is pretty cool, it takes a little while to get used to being able to instantly change gears.
Not sure about the 'slow engagement' comments, it is so much quicker (and more precise) then a front d that I have not noticed any lag. The gear range is spot on for a fr/am bike.
I went for the am version as I am fairly smooth on the bike, only added a few ounces over a single ring and guide.
Everyone who has pedaled around on the bike has made positive comments about how it performs. The drag in the high gear is nearly unnoticeable in the parking lot and disappears on the trail.
After struggling to keep the chain on w/ a dual ring & guide, it so nice to ditch the fd and have better performance in a nice compact package.
The Hammer Schmidt was really simple to install as well.
Recommended.
Attachments
SylentK - Any more info/comments on how your buddy likes the HS on the Bullit? I'd really like to give the HS a shot on my Morewood Shova and I'm trying to gather opinions from riders with similar frame designs (high, forward pivots). Thanks!
toby
toby
wouldn't that pedal suckily? my wife's bullit is epically bobilicious in the granny.
that's what i thought, hammerschmidt isn't compatible with all frame types
Well, my buddy would be classified as a "weekend warrior" at best, so he thinks its the best thing since disc brakes. His bullit is a size L, he's pushing 200 at 6'5", and is set up with a vivid 5.1. It probably bobs, I don't really remember it being bad. I'm 6"3", 185, so his setup isn't what I'd run. But you have to remember it has 7" of travel and weighs just under or at 40lbs stock. Of course its gonna bob, but like my buddy, I'd just be happy to spin that bike up the hill and earn some turns. That's what it's for. And you never have to worry about your chain falling, mis-front shifts or protecting chainrings.
OH wait, here is another shot.
Looks like he has a smile on his face?
OH wait, here is another shot.
Looks like he has a smile on his face?
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It has nothing to do with the Bullit, or singlepivots, but for the search engine; I am running mine on a Reign X and I have close to no pedal bob. The guys I ride with were the first to comment on how the suspension had no movement as I climbed. For the record, that is with the floodgate off, and includes standing climbs as well as seated. Apparently it's a solid match for my bike.
It has everything to do with pivot placement.
The HS causes your bike to behave like it is in granny gear all the time due to the chain angle.
Your Reign has little bob because it is designed to be less active in the small ring, with the HS it will be less active all the time.
This is of course when it is under pedal load.
A high forward single pivot will tend to act in a similar way.
The ideal candidate for HS has a suspension design that remains active in the small ring.
Anyone else have any input/opinion?
toby
toby
From previous posts, it was suspected that high-forward single pivots will actually be the worst candidates for Hammerschmidt because they don't pedal well in a small ring. I'm not contesting what you say, because this crap is on a whole level of Nerd that I don't care to learn about, but I would like to see some other people confirm (or challenge) what you say, and why.
Most 1st gen vpp bikes won't work well with the hs either. I have an Uzzi VPX that doesn't pedal well in the small ring compared to the middle... lots of pedal feedback. The high fwd single pivot is definitely a poor choice for a hs too. I know, some riders won't notice... they'll just wonder why their feet keep getting bounced off the pedals during technical climbing and bumpy downhills.
I tested one out at my lbs. The shifting was good but the pedaling engagement was horrid. If your not some one who ratches around the trail it won't be an issue but as some one who ratchets the pedals alot, the slop was far to much. I hated it infact. It felt like going from a Hadley hub to a deore. yuk.
If they can get the crank engagement up to snuff then I would give the system the thumbs up, but untill then I can't recomend it.
If they can get the crank engagement up to snuff then I would give the system the thumbs up, but untill then I can't recomend it.
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Definition of "ratches" please?
the freewheel in the Hammerschmidt only freewheels if you are pedaling backwards. under coasting conditions it's just the one in your hub clicking.
I have a high/single (gruitr) with a hammerschmidt and feel that because the chain pulls from the same (middle ring) position that bobbing is kept to a minimum. With a derailleur, in the granny ring the chain pulls from an angle much different from the chain and causes bobbing. My suspension is well tuned all the time, in all cases because the chain always effects the suspension the same way.
Most of my trail riding is done on short steep greasy trails and most of my gear changes are now done with the hammerschmidt only. I like it so much that if I couldn't afford it, I would sell my rear derailleur and shifter to fund the hammerschmidt. It's that good in my book.
I have a high/single (gruitr) with a hammerschmidt and feel that because the chain pulls from the same (middle ring) position that bobbing is kept to a minimum. With a derailleur, in the granny ring the chain pulls from an angle much different from the chain and causes bobbing. My suspension is well tuned all the time, in all cases because the chain always effects the suspension the same way.
Most of my trail riding is done on short steep greasy trails and most of my gear changes are now done with the hammerschmidt only. I like it so much that if I couldn't afford it, I would sell my rear derailleur and shifter to fund the hammerschmidt. It's that good in my book.
I have a Hammerschmidt on my new Uzzi with the 2nd Gen VPP. No real issues. When I am pedaling I want it to be stiffer anyways and when I want it plush I'm not usually pedaling so it's a moot point.
I have had no problems with the engagement...I ratchet through rock and tech sections, ride the skinny's and set up for stuff all the time. No issues for me. Could it be faster...sure...but it hasn't slowed me down or caused any problems. I don't even notice it when I am riding. You can ride the same thing on a King hub or a Deore hub, just have to know how to ride it.
Once you re-teach yourself how to shift, it will out weigh any downsides (on a AM/FR bike anyways). I find myself riding faster into grunter hills in higher gears and then just shifting once I start to get bogged down. Takes some time to get used to the new timing but I can clean small hills faster than any of the guys I ride with now. No need to pre-shift. And once you get up you can instantly shift back to a higher gear and be moving fast again. VERY nice. On DH runs it's nice because when you pop out of a trail in a high gear...you don't have to lift and spin into a lower gear to get going again...just shift while stopped then get right back into it.
The only complaint I have is about the noise when in the "middle ring". There is a small amount of drag as well. The noise gets annoying at times. The drag is really not an issue unless you are racing XC I which case the weight would have already turned you away.
I use it on on the new Uzzi which I use for everything. I ride at DH Platty/Diablo and I ride XC with it at Stewart and Blue. The ability to shift instantly, under pressure, when stopped, mid air, etc. is really useful...we just never realized it because we couldn't do it before.
The system is great for AM/FR/DH rigs. It's not for the XC type or people who are critical to a minor downside or two, no matter the overall improvement.
Tom
I have had no problems with the engagement...I ratchet through rock and tech sections, ride the skinny's and set up for stuff all the time. No issues for me. Could it be faster...sure...but it hasn't slowed me down or caused any problems. I don't even notice it when I am riding. You can ride the same thing on a King hub or a Deore hub, just have to know how to ride it.
Once you re-teach yourself how to shift, it will out weigh any downsides (on a AM/FR bike anyways). I find myself riding faster into grunter hills in higher gears and then just shifting once I start to get bogged down. Takes some time to get used to the new timing but I can clean small hills faster than any of the guys I ride with now. No need to pre-shift. And once you get up you can instantly shift back to a higher gear and be moving fast again. VERY nice. On DH runs it's nice because when you pop out of a trail in a high gear...you don't have to lift and spin into a lower gear to get going again...just shift while stopped then get right back into it.
The only complaint I have is about the noise when in the "middle ring". There is a small amount of drag as well. The noise gets annoying at times. The drag is really not an issue unless you are racing XC I which case the weight would have already turned you away.
I use it on on the new Uzzi which I use for everything. I ride at DH Platty/Diablo and I ride XC with it at Stewart and Blue. The ability to shift instantly, under pressure, when stopped, mid air, etc. is really useful...we just never realized it because we couldn't do it before.
The system is great for AM/FR/DH rigs. It's not for the XC type or people who are critical to a minor downside or two, no matter the overall improvement.
Tom
Ohh and you do get used to using the bike as a 2 gear setup...you find yourself shifting only in the front at times. You find a comfortable rear for the terrain and you can really move with 2 gears. very sweet! Went out on a super muddy ride yesterday and when no one else could shift because they where just so clogged up with mud...I still had 2 gears!
There's an interesting thread about Hammerschmidt over on MTBR right now. I have a Intense SS and was thinking about getting a set-up. Eric from Competitive Cyclist posted this:
The thread in question is here.E2@CC said:I too was a non-believer that the HS would work on a VPP designed frame. The fact of the matter is that you can only speculate on how it will work until you actually try it out. So a buddy of mine manned up and dropped the coin on a HS and installed it on his SS- and guess what it freakin' works great!!!
The theory on the chainring size is correct- but you also have to take into account that the torque output from being in over drive is capable of overcoming the ill effects of the 24t ring. Now if you shift into the low gear for climbing- yes you get just as much feedback as you'd expect in comparison to running say a 24-36 set-up and pedaling the bike in the 24t. You have to also take into account suspension set-up- too little rebound damping will make any bike want to "bounce or lift" in certain situations, which is also maybe one reason why my buddies bike pedals well- he is using a CCDB. One more thing to consider also is that the SS is not a lightweight "trail bike" i have been running mine with a single 38t ring up front and a 11-32 cassette in the rear for trail use- for DH racing I drop down to a 11-25 cassette. The torque output of the 38t makes for a harder to pedal uphill bike no doubt, but you don't get the bogged down feeling you do if you were running a 32t ring and trying to spin. Just stand and tough it out on the 38t.
Bottom line- it works better than i would have imagined it could. Sometimes people get too caught up in what they've read or heard- and simply start repeating info they have no first hand knowledge on and i think they sort of "create" a false image of how a bike rides because they've been fed all the marketing hype and start to believe it....some people should just ride and enjoy the bike for what it is- a tool to get out and have fun on- rather than getting nit picky about one design being better than another and blaming that on why they can't clean this section of trail or hit that gap or rail that turn etc.. Everyone has their own opinion on what design works best for them, and trust me- having ridden a ton of different bikes, there are things i like and dislike about EVERYONE of them. There is no 1 best design out for every person- period.
Sorry I guess that last paragraph got a little off topic
Later-E2
Did you, by any chance, see the current issue of MBA?
No, I will take a look.