[douglas]

So I am trying to increase my cardio, I race sport DH and Beg XC (I think I will move up to sport XC this year), am 35 years old............I have been wearing a HRM while hitting the gym, right now I am doing 45 min's, 2 or 3 times a week(25 treadmill & 20 on this hiker/glider machine), on the tradmill I'm usually at 150-160bpm and the hiker 140-150, is that ok, or should I be pushing myself more?
I did hit 181 last time (must have been when the tread mill's incline was increased)

 

[Heidi]

It's impossible to know whether you should be pushing yourself more unless you know your max heart rate. The age old 220-your age is not extremelly accurate so since you have a heart rate monitor, I recommend doing some sort of test to calculate your max. Your max heart rate will be different for different exercises and I only know how to test it for riding.

The next step is then deciding on a goal, if its just cardio in general then 70-80% of your max heart rate is pretty much where you want to workout.

Here is a good article.http://www.heartmonitors.com/exercisetips/training_with_5_zones.htm

 

[Roasted]

Great Article Heidi. I have always wondered about that traditional formula. And now I find I have been working even harder than I though...

Cheers.

 

[Serial Midget]

I have been experimenting with my heart rate and, like Roasted, I have been training too hard.

I am 37 and about 7 pounds over my ideal running weight. I have a maximum heart rate of 193 as tested on the mile running method. That method involved running one mile at 100% effort; for me that was a 6:16 mile.

From that number I determined my max training should be 164.

I have yet to measure myself while racing on a bicycle but I have measured my typical pace that is 90/95 rpm and around 19 mph, my heart rate is usually around 155 unless I am climbing.

I ran a marathon with a HRM for the first time on December 22nd. I averaged an 8.5 minute mile finishing in 3:42, at the end I had an average heart rate under 170 but, for the last 3 miles, I ramped it up to 183 or 95%. For a short race of 10K I would feel comfortable at 185 for the entire distance.

Last night I ran an easy 10 miles at an active recovery pace (slow) and averaged 152.

My highest heart rate occurs while running, next best work out is road biking then mountain biking. I did a DH run of 9 miles with some climb and lot's of pedalling but my average was somewhere near 136... I resolved to never shuttle again!

EDIT: My training is geared towards endurance, I seldom race in events that are less than marathon distance. I have only race on my road bike, never MTB.

 

[Heidi]

I agree, I have always tended to work too hard when training. This year my heart rate monitor has done a good job at helping me to just chill on recovery rides.

Midget - you "feel comfortable" at 95% of your max even in short races? Damn, I can't say I ever really feel comfortable when I'm over 85%

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by Heidi
Midget - you "feel comfortable" at 95% of your max even in short races? Damn, I can't say I ever really feel comfortable when I'm over 85%

This assumes I have accurately measured my max and the fact that a 10K course is typically flat, I'll only be out for 42 to 45 minutes. When I am done with a 10K I am also done for the day...

A 50K course is typically run on trails with significant elevation gain, if you push to hard you'll run out of steam and have an unpleasant finish.

 

[Heidi]

It pretty much takes an act of god to get me into the 90% range if I'm training. Now racing, that's a whole different ball game.

 

[douglas]

Heidi:cool article, thanks!
Serial: 183 bpm for 3 miles, SICK !

I never wore my HRM during a race, I think i was afraid to see how far I pushed myself.

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by douglas
Heidi:cool article, thanks!
Serial: 183 bpm for 3 miles, SICK !

I never wore my HRM during a race, I think i was afraid to see how far I pushed myself.

I've only worn mine on long races to make sure I didn't go over my lactic threshold. I'm not a big advocate of watching a monitor during an xc race, it just limits you in my opinion. I'm pretty aware of how I feel and whether pushing any harder will cause me to "blow up" or what. I might wear it a couple races this year just to see what the average ends up being.

 

[indieboy]

Originally posted by Heidi
It pretty much takes an act of god to get me into the 90% range if I'm training. Now racing, that's a whole different ball game.

how come?

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by douglas
Serial: 183 bpm for 3 miles, SICK !

Yeah... but in a race situation you will find yourself doing things you normally wouldn't. I was still picking people off at 2 per mile... and... this was key for my last race - I never had the chance of placing in a marathon before. It was a small event and I had already passed about 75 runners... it's like a drug.

The other thing to consider is that running is a full body experience with 100% of the load on your feet - this naturally uses more energy. I seriously doubt I could maintain that HR on a bike for any length of time.

Heidi - how did you determine your lactic threshold? That's my next project...

 

[Topaz]

I think my max is around 194. Here's what a typical Sat. group road ride is like for me:

1 2 3 4

Last year I raced Beginner XC 30-34. This year I'll be racing Sport XC.

The biggest difference I noticed was that at 45min into a race you only have 15min left in a typical beginner race. In sport you've got another 45min to go. Ug.

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by indieboy
how come?

Not sure, my heart seems to do an overly good job of "working within itself". I can push super, super hard to where my gears can't go bigger or my eyes are popping out of my head. My legs will burn like crazy and it only goes up about 8-10 beats.

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Yeah... but in a race situation you will find yourself doing things you normally wouldn't. I was still picking people off at 2 per mile... and... this was key for my last race - I never had the chance of placing in a marathon before. It was a small event and I had already passed about 75 runners... it's like a drug.

The other thing to consider is that running is a full body experience with 100% of the load on your feet - this naturally uses more energy. I seriously doubt I could maintain that HR on a bike for any length of time.

Heidi - how did you determine your lactic threshold? That's my next project...

Best way to do it is a 40K time trial.

 

[Roasted]

Originally posted by Heidi
Not sure, my heart seems to do an overly good job of "working within itself". I can push super, super hard to wear my gears can't go bigger or my eyes are popping out of my head. My legs will burn like crazy and it only goes up about 8-10 beats.

Thats incredible...I know my uncle trained his heart and lungs using some special technique...he races in some brutal races and he says his heart rate barely moves...I definately have to learn that trick

 

[The Toninator]

I usually train in my aerobic zone at 70 - 80% max (196) I've worn my HRM in two races i discovered a new MAX, previously to be 193, and my highest sustain heart rate at 191 for :52 minutes and 189 for :47 minutes

 

[indieboy]

Originally posted by Heidi
Not sure, my heart seems to do an overly good job of "working within itself". I can push super, super hard to where my gears can't go bigger or my eyes are popping out of my head. My legs will burn like crazy and it only goes up about 8-10 beats.

see why i push so much on wattage training?

 

[Serial Midget]

When I am pushing close to my max the burn in my lungs hits well before muscle fatigue. I'm riding tonight with my club - I'll put the HRM on and see what a typical Thursday night ride brings.

 

[Topaz]

I usually train in my aerobic zone at 70 - 80% max (196) I've worn my HRM in two races i discovered a new MAX, previously to be 193, and my highest sustain heart rate at 191 for :52 minutes and 189 for :47 minutes

I wonder if everyone is capable of that kind of performance? Or does it vary per individual?

I slowly reach about 180-183 (194 max) during climbs but only stay there for the last minute or so of the climb. That's something I'll look at when I start my real training. I'm just doing miles now.

 

[Heidi]

Originally posted by indieboy
see why i push so much on wattage training?

Oh no, I KNOW that wattage training is THE chit, I just can't afford that.

 

[indieboy]

Originally posted by Heidi
Oh no, I KNOW that wattage training is THE chit, I just can't afford that.

yeah it is expensive, the SRM cranks are probably the best way to go and those are just ungodly expensive. as you probably saw my coach burned me in the racing forum. when i stayed w/ him we did a bit of testing on it and it's rough to keep your wattage up, just slight position changes and many other things make your wattage drop quickly. www.srm.de check em out.

 

[The Toninator]

Originally posted by Topaz
I wonder if everyone is capable of that kind of performance? Or does it vary per individual?

I slowly reach about 180-183 (194 max) during climbs but only stay there for the last minute or so of the climb. That's something I'll look at when I start my real training. I'm just doing miles now.

not sure. dont even know if it's a good or bad thing

 

[Serial Midget]

I forgot to wear my HRM on last Thursdays night ride but... we don't really push that hard on night rides anyway. The real heart rate tests won't really arrive until our 30 mile road training rides resume in the spring...

Tonight I did hill training with a fairly accomplished short distance runnner. On anything under a 1/2 marathon he really smokes me.

The loop we ran tonight was 5.2 miles 2/3rds of which are hills. It took me 45:21 to finish the loop. The longest climb is about 1/2 mile and it is intense, running up the hill at about a 12:30 pace pushed my HR to 192; fluctuating from 189 to 192. Dropping back down the other side at a 7 minute pace dropped my HR to 172. The the next few miles I ran at 186 to 188. The final 1/2 mile is totally flat and I pushed my sprint to somewhere less than a 7 minute pace and a heart rate of 193.

All in all I averaged 182 for 45:21, not quite race effort but a damn good workout at 94.3% of max. (the first 1/2 mile warm up was about 163 and figures in the overall average).

 

[pot]

When you guy's talk about finding a new max in Races, there is another factor you must consider which is cardiac drift where hr even max increases as the blood gets thinner due to dehydration.
A Heart rate monitor is a useful tool but is just that a tool, They are best used as a guide but they are not 100% accurate and the guidelines such as lactic threshhold levels etc are not that useful. However (this has Probably been said before) use of a hrm and a training diary can help you learn and understand your body and develop training and race tactics more accurately.

 

[indieboy]

Originally posted by pot
When you guy's talk about finding a new max in Races, there is another factor you must consider which is cardiac drift where hr even max increases as the blood gets thinner due to dehydration.
A Heart rate monitor is a useful tool but is just that a tool, They are best used as a guide but they are not 100% accurate and the guidelines such as lactic threshhold levels etc are not that useful. However (this has Probably been said before) use of a hrm and a training diary can help you learn and understand your body and develop training and race tactics more accurately.

the big reason why i'm so down on wattage training. b/c there are so many different variables that can change your heart rate from day to day...

 

[Serial Midget]

No such thing as just a tool; tools are useful and useful is good. I think my new HRM will be very useful and help me to become a more efficient endurance athlete.

 

[5-Ten]

I ride to and from work (as well as 'real' rides during the week)- On my work rides I try to keep my heart rate on 75% both ways - 25min to work and 35min to home. Probably twice a week I will ride hard and keep the beats up, it turns out to be about 10min at 85% then 10min around 95% then 10min at 85% for a bit of a warm down. My max is around 202bpm. I don't get too tired - my chest just starts to hurt a little.

 

[Airborne]

Originally posted by Heidi
It's impossible to know whether you should be pushing yourself more unless you know your max heart rate. The age old 220-your age is not extremelly accurate so since you have a heart rate monitor, I recommend doing some sort of test to calculate your max. Your max heart rate will be different for different exercises and I only know how to test it for riding.

The next step is then deciding on a goal, if its just cardio in general then 70-80% of your max heart rate is pretty much where you want to workout.

Here is a good article.http://www.heartmonitors.com/exercisetips/training_with_5_zones.htm

thanks for the great site... turns out using the new formula they listed i was within .6 of the old 220-age formula, AND spot on adding 60 beats to my rate in the walking test (HAD to try it) ... i hope thats good haha.